Training Training Reports, Pics 2017

[La Dispute]

Hmmm. are there so many possible reasons why the intra-club was closed? BB is shy maybe? Army was unhappy with his haircut?

I can think of one very suspect reason. I can't think of any others so it is difficult to agree it is speculation.

The reasons for commenting ("reacting") are as follows:

1. Having a closed intra club gives rise to the inference that "something" important for our success is going on that needs, for that success, to be kept secret. This is a completely false inference. It leads to unwarranted supporter expectations and, to the extent it actually hides some part of our game plan, means that to that extent our game plan will not be tested as thoroughly as it will be on GF day, when it really matters.

2. Having a closed intra club disengages the supporter base. It is hard to get excited about Polson or SPS or Cuningham when there is so little to feed that excitement.

Regardless what they are, nobody on the forum knows the specifics. Everything else is speculation, and hence, not worth getting riled up about. The club wouldn't do it if they didn't feel it was completely necessary.

To counter though

1 - Simplify. I don't get your point.

2 - Supporters have a greater opportunity to witness the squad (including Cuningham and Polson) in the JLT, under much better conditions. Once these games begin, missing the intra-club will be forgotten.

 

[SafeAsMilk]

They knew we were coming a few years ago, now they don't know where we are.

 

[1981]

Hmmm. are there so many possible reasons why the intra-club was closed? BB is shy maybe? Army was unhappy with his haircut?

I can think of one very suspect reason. I can't think of any others so it is difficult to agree it is speculation.



The reasons for commenting ("reacting") are as follows:

1. Having a closed intra club gives rise to the inference that "something" important for our success is going on that needs, for that success, to be kept secret. This is a completely false inference. It leads to unwarranted supporter expectations and, to the extent it actually hides some part of our game plan, means that to that extent our game plan will not be tested as thoroughly as it will be on GF day, when it really matters.

2. Having a closed intra club disengages the supporter base. It is hard to get excited about Polson or SPS or Cuningham when there is so little to feed that excitement.

I tried so hard to ignore your posts but caved at the last minute.

I have only bothered to read the postings above, and I am glad I didn't read any more of your posts because I totally disagree with what you have written in the above.

1. I don't think the secrecy leads to unwarranted expectations. Certainly it has not created this feeling within myself. If it has for you then we are just differently wired, you and I. I can only imagine coaching in the AFL is an incredibly challenging and complex job these days. I am wrapt if we have a coach who wants to do everything possible to get an edge, but I don't expect it to work all the time (because not all plans will work, that's reality). If we have a poor year without a massive spate of injuries I will be disappointed but I won't be thinking about one intra club game (that might only appeal to a tiny fraction of CFC members/fans) being a closed session. Won't even cross my mind. The issue of a closed intra club game is but 0.05% of the football year to me. It is a nice to have for me but hardly imperative, and I suspect most CFC fans don't even know what a intra club game is. As I said somewhere else, if keeping any aspects of our game plan secret improves our chances of winning in R1, then that is a good thing. Because it is all about winning games, starting the year well, and creating a winning culture. You've got to start somewhere. set high standards now.

2. I am very excited about Polson and Cuningham etc, and will be glad to see them play on Saturday. That's the first official game against competition, and that isn't even R1 of the real stuff. I am more than happy for pre-season to be the first time I see the team play competitive footy.

 

[1981]

Regardless what they are, nobody on the forum knows the specifics. Everything else is speculation, and hence, not worth getting riled up about. The club wouldn't do it if they didn't feel it was completely necessary.

To counter though

1 - Simplify. I don't get your point.

2 - Supporters have a greater opportunity to witness to squad (including Cuningham and Polson) in the JLT, under much better conditions. Once these games begin, missing the intra-club will be forgotten.

THIS

 

[1981]

I couldn't give a rats toss if the club has closed training sessions & intra clubs.

For the last 15 years we have been starved of a hungry, dedicated team playing with a modern game plan.this might be the turning point.

Bolts obviously has made a few changes to his personnel, game plan and most probably playing positions. He is taking every advantage he can.

Although we've been starved of footy, it is only the pre-season. We are now only two days off. Can't wait...Go Blues!!!

AND THIS.

 

[Windhover]

We won what? 6 from 7 at one stage last year? that shows we can win games, and we have added to the list considerably since then so there's every reason to expect we can win more games this year.

1. That would be so if "improvement" in football teams was in linear lock-step with wins. It is not.

2. When you look at what we have "added" to the team since last year, in order to determine whether there is any reason to expect more wins, you also need to look at what was "subtracted" from the team since last year. All the new players, Alex S and Palmer excepted, are largely unknown. Like you I have much hope for those additions. Unlike you I am not counting chickens until they have hatched.

Developing a winning culture is very important. That might be challenging when you are also building a young team, but at some stage the penny will drop and the relatively young team will start winning more than they lose and will have developed a mindset where they expect to win.

So you think even if our wins come from cheap tricks (cunning plans?) like hiding our intra club match (ha ha), this is good because it is a win? I call it a sweetener of no nutritional advantage.

 

[Weiterbot23]

When Weitering lines up at full forward against Richmond everyone will know anyway.

 

[Windhover]

Regardless what they are, nobody on the forum knows the specifics. Everything else is speculation, and hence, not worth getting riled up about.

For it to be "speculation" there would have to be an alternative reason for the secrecy than the obvious reason. I can't thimk of one and nor, does it seem, can you.

The club wouldn't do it if they didn't feel it was completely necessary.

Read what you wrote and think. Then think some more if you haven't already laughed at your trusting naivety.

To counter though

1 - Simplify. I don't get your point.

This is not a "counter". Perhaps you could explain what part of my "point" you don't get.

2 - Supporters have a greater opportunity to witness to squad (including Cuningham and Polson) in the JLT, under much better conditions. Once these games begin, missing the intra-club will be forgotten.

Do you think the Club is entitled to think and treat its supporters as goldfish while, at the same time, treat its opponents on the footy field with such respect for their intelligence gathering techniques that even if it be an intra club game (with its limited opportunity to witness the squad) it is worth hiding even though those same opponents will have the greater opportunity to witness the squad in the JLT, under much better conditions?

I don't.

 

[Metalcrusher]

I think this will all blow over if the club say ... wins 8-11 games this season and is competitive with a VERY young list........

 

[Metalcrusher]

Windover whilst I completely empathize with you on your feelings about a fractured Club (Supporter base V Powers that be), I can also understand the tail flip of the coin on the coach trying to be as competitive as he can be with the asset base he has.

 

[La Dispute]

For it to be "speculation" there would have to be an alternative reason for the secrecy than the obvious reason. I can't thimk of one and nor, does it seem, can you.

Read what you wrote and think. Then think some more if you haven't already laughed at your trusting naivety.

This is not a "counter". Perhaps you could explain what part of my "point" you don't get.

Do you think the Club is entitled to think and treat its supporters as goldfish while, at the same time, treat its opponents on the footy field with such respect for their intelligence gathering techniques that even if it be an intra club game (with its limited opportunity to witness the squad) it is worth hiding even though those same opponents will have the greater opportunity to witness the squad in the JLT, under much better conditions?

I don't.

I've listed several reasons in this thread, and I'm happy to concede there's plenty more and it's probably a combination of things.

'Trusting naivety' - you really are a neurotic. This is on the back of missing ONE intra-club match. I've always been critical of the club, but when it comes to something so petty, it's easy to dismiss. I maintain that the extra week off has gotten to some supporters and the agitation is palpable.

I don't get any of it. It's convoluted, overly verbose and just kind of meanders around a few different things. Make what you're saying a little more succinct, with less loquacious nothingness.

That entire last paragraph is assumptive. Again, you don't know the reason we closed off the intra-club, so speculating on it and then expanding on that speculation is completely fruitless. So much navel-gazing going on.

 

[Ken Navies]

Yeah, because we all know that a sporting team can exist without its fans.

Said it before an I'll say it again.
Clubs can spout off all they like about fan inclusion, etc, but you and I are simply another source of revenue to them. That's all...

 

[thylacine60]

Depending on me for revenue? Time to hand the keys in........again..........

 

[Ken Navies]

Depending on me for revenue? Time to hand the keys in........again..........

Yeah, well make sure they're the right keys this time Thy, heard that bloke was not happy when he had to start his Datto 120y with a screwdriver last year...

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Said it before an I'll say it again.
Clubs can spout off all they like about fan inclusion, etc, but you and I are simply another source of revenue to them. That's all...

Actually all members are equal part owners in the club

 

[Ken Navies]

Actually all members are equal part owners in the club

Sweet, so if we turn a profit they start paying me.?

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Sweet, so if we turn a profit they start paying me.?

They're non profit

 

[Bluella]

let's be realist, exactly what sort of surprise are we likely to spring on opposition coaches - that they can't nullify in the blink of an eye on match day?

Well, for starters, we came pretty close to getting a few more wins last season. If teams underestimate us this year they may be slow to react.

Will be even worse when BT gives him a nickname and repeats it until the rest of them pick up on it.

Yep. *shudder*

 

[TD2010]

They knew we were coming a few years ago, now they don't know where we are.

If we can't see it can we at least smell it again...!?

 

[BlueRenaissance]

1. That would be so if "improvement" in football teams was in linear lock-step with wins. It is not.

2. When you look at what we have "added" to the team since last year, in order to determine whether there is any reason to expect more wins, you also need to look at what was "subtracted" from the team since last year. All the new players, Alex S and Palmer excepted, are largely unknown. Like you I have much hope for those additions. Unlike you I am not counting chickens until they have hatched.



So you think even if our wins come from cheap tricks (cunning plans?) like hiding our intra club match (ha ha), this is good because it is a win? I call it a sweetener of no nutritional advantage.

I think there are so many points you are missing Windhover.

You are basically arguing to do nothing because at the end of the day, we will be found out even if we try. Your view..."we develop a new strategy or improve on last seasons strategy, then the opposition will cotton on and counter straight away. Given this, why try in the first place." This is very limited thinking to say the least and bordering on complete stupidity.

Take this view. Last season Carlton put out almost its worst all time list of players or pretty much close to it (some of it due to draftees age). Despite that, Carlton outperformed everyone's expectations. In 2016 we had zero forward-line and an average midfield/ruck brigade. If you rate our players on an individual level... No one opposition team would want Caz, lamb,or wright or the others (maybe Brisbane). Silver/Curnow just kids who pop up now and then but not reliable. But the point is, prior to last season we were ready to accept armageddon and were just happy the Bombers had been wrecked to give us a chance to avoid the spoon.

Every opposition club down the bottom by half way through last season would have taken note of Carlton. s**t, if they can string those games together, well then, if we stole that gameplan and with our 'much better more mature list', we'd kill it. Everyone attributed our results and good early run from last season to Bolts game plan.

If I was Richmond, North, Geelong etc.. teams who have good players but a s**t game plan...i'd have spent this offseason working out Carlton's gameplan magic..because that is what it was last season that gave us those wins. Great organization and transition. I think BB knows that and doesnt want to help develop those clubs...clubs like richmond who are a mess gameplan wise. The naivety of your posts show a complete misunderstanding of how things work. BB to implement his game plan needs to run it through with the players again and again to drill it into a squad of 22 plus reserves who all need to know it. Managing that knowledge across that group takes an entire pre-season + seasons (on the track and in the classroom).

A club like Richmond, North, Bombers, Brisbane, wont be able to look at that gameplan post round one and go "we will copy it". It will be too late. They can try and counter it marginally on game day (tactical response). But they wont be able to copy it which is the important thing. As for a long term shot at a flag...opposition clubs need to know the drills, the education.behind close doors...all the extra pieces of the puzzle to bring that game plan together. Hiding our intraclub from prying eyes helps push back other clubs from stealing our recipe and that recipe includes a whole host of things.

As a fan...im salivating like everyone else for a pre-season training report. But i'm not an idiot. I can see a game this weekend after a long frustrating wait. I can console myself that a club like Richmond (with a desperate Hardwick) who would be desperate for some sort of improved gameplan hasnt been able to collect intel on our club. By round 1, its all too late to change their gameplan for 2017 as they have completed their drills all pre-season. By this stage, its like chinese whispers, too stupid to change how a squad of 40 players play with no prep. That's why Bolts closed the doors so they didnt have months to evaluate and copy parts of our gameplan.

 

[Love the Drake]

Hmmm. are there so many possible reasons why the intra-club was closed? BB is shy maybe? Army was unhappy with his haircut?

I can think of one very suspect reason. I can't think of any others so it is difficult to agree it is speculation.



The reasons for commenting ("reacting") are as follows:

1. Having a closed intra club gives rise to the inference that "something" important for our success is going on that needs, for that success, to be kept secret. This is a completely false inference. It leads to unwarranted supporter expectations and, to the extent it actually hides some part of our game plan, means that to that extent our game plan will not be tested as thoroughly as it will be on GF day, when it really matters.

2. Having a closed intra club disengages the supporter base. It is hard to get excited about Polson or SPS or Cuningham when there is so little to feed that excitement.

Ho hum. What's done is done. We will see our team play in two days, then weekly after that.
All you are doing is speculating like everyone else. No-one on here knows the reason, and to be honest, who cares...it doesn't change anything.

I think there are so many points you are missing Windhover.

You are basically arguing to do nothing because at the end of the day, we will be found out even if we try. Your view..."we develop a new strategy or improve on last seasons strategy, then the opposition will cotton on and counter straight away. Given this, why try in the first place." This is very limited thinking to say the least and bordering on complete stupidity.

Take this view. Last season Carlton put out almost its worst all time list of players or pretty much close to it (some of it due to draftees age). Despite that, Carlton outperformed everyone's expectations. In 2016 we had zero forward-line and an average midfield/ruck brigade. If you rate our players on an individual level... No one opposition team would want Caz, lamb,or wright or the others (maybe Brisbane). Silver/Curnow just kids who pop up now and then but not reliable. But the point is, prior to last season we were ready to accept armageddon and were just happy the Bombers had been wrecked to give us a chance to avoid the spoon.

Every opposition club down the bottom by half way through last season would have taken note of Carlton. s**t, if they can string those games together, well then, if we stole that gameplan and with our 'much better more mature list', we'd kill it. Everyone attributed our results and good early run from last season to Bolts game plan.

If I was Richmond, North, Geelong etc.. teams who have good players but a s**t game plan...i'd have spent this offseason working out Carlton's gameplan magic..because that is what it was last season that gave us those wins. Great organization and transition. I think BB knows that and doesnt want to help develop those clubs...clubs like richmond who are a mess gameplan wise. The naivety of your posts show a complete misunderstanding of how things work. BB to implement his game plan needs to run it through with the players again and again to drill it into a squad of 22 plus reserves who all need to know it. Managing that knowledge across that group takes an entire pre-season + seasons (on the track and in the classroom).

A club like Richmond, North, Bombers, Brisbane, wont be able to look at that gameplan post round one and go "we will copy it". It will be too late. They can try and counter it marginally on game day (tactical response). But they wont be able to copy it which is the important thing. As for a long term shot at a flag...opposition clubs need to know the drills, the education.behind close doors...all the extra pieces of the puzzle to bring that game plan together. Hiding our intraclub from prying eyes helps push back other clubs from stealing our recipe and that recipe includes a whole host of things.

As a fan...im salivating like everyone else for a pre-season training report. But i'm not an idiot. I can see a game this weekend after a long frustrating wait. I can console myself that a club like Richmond (with a desperate Hardwick) who would be desperate for some sort of improved gameplan hasnt been able to collect intel on our club. By round 1, its all too late to change their gameplan for 2017 as they have completed their drills all pre-season. By this stage, its like chinese whispers, too stupid to change how a squad of 40 players play with no prep. That's why Bolts closed the doors so they didnt have months to evaluate and copy parts of our gameplan.

Well said. In essence, give the opposition NOTHING.
We lost round 1 by 9 points last year. If we gain any sort of an advantage through certain changes that Richmond are unaware of then we win..

 

[passmark]

If there was no value in game plans then there's no need for closed training sessions.

Also no need have half a dozen highly paid guys to teach the valueless plan to players.

Since all clubs, to varying degrees, go through this pantomime it suggests that maybe they think there is an advantage to be gained in keeping their systems secret .

 

[Cripps Nubake]

You spoiled Victorians complaining about not enough training exposure. This is just another typical non-eventful pre season for us interstaters

 

[BoltonsBlues]

Would like to see jacksh play.. kid has so much talent. Is it just intensity thats holding him back?. Looked a gem with gws.. whats happened. Geez i hope he shows something this year.

 

[onesilop]

BB to implement his game plan needs to run it through with the players again and again to drill it into a squad of 22 plus reserves who all need to know it. Managing that knowledge across that group takes an entire pre-season + seasons (on the track and in the classroom).

Maybe what they are trying to hide is not the game plan but the methodology of how it is taught

Ultimately that is as important as a game plan that works!