Review Training standards / skills and fitness

[Gasometer]

The good old days of paper rock scissors

 

[LB2Snake]

Yeah. Pauly was more interested in eating and the other 2 needed a photo of the footy to remind them what it looked like.

Completely hypothetical, but I’d bet 2 out of 3 of those blokes would have been solid to good players at other clubs.

 

[Passmore]

Completely hypothetical, but I’d bet 2 out of 3 of those blokes would have been solid to good players at other clubs.

Brad is going ok at Norwood……

 

[LB2Snake]

Brad is going ok at Norwood……

He’s retired, but he won 2 B&F’s there.
Anyway, all doesnt matter. I‘ve had doubts on our training and gym programs for years. I’m sure I’m not alone.

 

[Ligma]

From what I saw, I thought the training sessions were good.

Doing small sided handball games under fatigue and nobes yelling at the players go chase. Doing runs at the breaks in the intra club, boys even doing extra work. It’s gonna take a while before we see improvement with fitness.

I would really like to see each players GPS stats and compare their stats to the best player in that position they play in. I would also like to see how the coaches increase the players loads.

It’s such a weird one with fundamentals, we worked on it heaps in the pre season but we can’t translate that into a game. I think the possibility is that our pressure is not good enough at training compared to all the other teams therefore we cannot withstand pressure and just crumble

 

[amaz199]

From what I saw, I thought the training sessions were good.

Doing small sided handball games under fatigue and nobes yelling at the players go chase. Doing runs at the breaks in the intra club, boys even doing extra work. It’s gonna take a while before we see improvement with fitness.

I would really like to see each players GPS stats and compare their stats to the best player in that position they play in. I would also like to see how the coaches increase the players loads.

It’s such a weird one with fundamentals, we worked on it heaps in the pre season but we can’t translate that into a game. I think the possibility is that our pressure is not good enough at training compared to all the other teams therefore we cannot withstand pressure and just crumble

I think Noble made a mention of the fact we make it harder for ourselves positioning wise which then translates into a kick being more difficult to hit.

We are really good at extracting the ball out the contest, but once it's out that's where our downfall is.

Our forward-line needs another genuine key forward to help Larkey with movement. If we are not moving in sync, there will be turnovers.

 

[deano28]

From what I saw, I thought the training sessions were good.

Doing small sided handball games under fatigue and nobes yelling at the players go chase. Doing runs at the breaks in the intra club, boys even doing extra work. It’s gonna take a while before we see improvement with fitness.

I would really like to see each players GPS stats and compare their stats to the best player in that position they play in. I would also like to see how the coaches increase the players loads.

It’s such a weird one with fundamentals, we worked on it heaps in the pre season but we can’t translate that into a game. I think the possibility is that our pressure is not good enough at training compared to all the other teams therefore we cannot withstand pressure and just crumble

Yahtzee ! the old saying train like you play . Others clubs do that , we don’t .

 

[koshari]

From what I saw, I thought the training sessions were good.

Doing small sided handball games under fatigue and nobes yelling at the players go chase. Doing runs at the breaks in the intra club, boys even doing extra work. It’s gonna take a while before we see improvement with fitness.

I would really like to see each players GPS stats and compare their stats to the best player in that position they play in. I would also like to see how the coaches increase the players loads.

It’s such a weird one with fundamentals, we worked on it heaps in the pre season but we can’t translate that into a game. I think the possibility is that our pressure is not good enough at training compared to all the other teams therefore we cannot withstand pressure and just crumble

Good observation. If you get your technique right it should hold up under pressure. As golfers say you have to perfect your swing in practice time so when your under pressure in the comp it will hold up.

Like any drill from playing guitar to darts it's only hours of practice that put you in a place where you can succeed when the heat is on.

From what we have seen this year that work surely can't be getting done. I have seen better drilled teams getting around in country leagues from part time players than these so called professionals.

 

[Dan]

I used to go to pre-season training once a year, occasionally during the season and every time I'd go I'd see sloppy skills and balls hitting the ground during drills all the time.

Sure enough it shows in our games.

As a team I've lost count the amount of times I've been critical on our lack of ability to hit targets under pressure, inside 50, link up the ground with hand balls.....

Pick whatever game style you want, attack/defensive........but neither will work if you can't hit targets consistently. What's been put in place at training is not working and too many players I think are just going through the motions instead of having a real purpose to train and get better.

 

[Forever North]

Our 1st touch ball handling is abysmal. Every game I see our players even under little or no pressure fumble and take 2-3 touches in order to take clean possession, provided that they haven’t been swamped by the opposition in that split second. It’s sub standard for this level. It’s a bloody cancer in this team. Just saps the energy.

 

[The Lone Latic]

pre season is where they wouldve had to do the hard and heavy training, hence why all the videos in season are proably at half track because the focus is recovery so they can play on the weekend as opposed to flogging them like in pre season.

if anything, that means that they need to be working more on their skills in season but they are still deplorable.

if Gav Brown is still the skills coach and has been for the last 9 years as sugested on another thread, id be suggesting that we need an overhaul there because they havent got any better

 

[Hazey1977]

Our 1st touch ball handling is abysmal. Every game I see our players even under little or no pressure fumble and take 2-3 touches in order to take clean possession, provided that they haven’t been swamped by the opposition in that split second. It’s sub standard for this level. It’s a bloody cancer in this team. Just saps the energy.

And how come so many blokes to want to strike the ball with fingers rolled, palm facing forward ...

It is embarassing.

 

[Gasometer]

I reckon we’ve been talking about skills under pressure since Scotts last days because I distinctly remember suggesting German Shepherd dogs be used at training to add that extra bite for pressure. Idea was typically ignored and, well as we see real and perceived pressure skill errors continue.

 

[Merlin007]

I reckon we’ve been talking about skills under pressure since Scotts last days because I distinctly remember suggesting German Shepherd dogs be used at training to add that extra bite for pressure. Idea was typically ignored and, well as we see real and perceived pressure skill errors continue.

I would have thought Rottweilers were more your style

 

[the big lebowski]

Maybe not the place for it, but just thought I’d say here anyway.

Remember how we used to give up big leads under brad Scott. Or how we are something like 3 out of 20 in games under a goal (not sure the exact stat but it’s bad), or how we rarely win round 1?

Even under Shaw, we gave up last qrt leads and lost more close ones than we won. Different coach, same result.

At what point do we conclude that senior players are the problem? Certainly there has been zero skill improvement across 15 years.

Jack ziebell

7

Jack Ziebell

Age

33

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.1

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

4.6

5star

MG

369.5

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.6

3star

MG

125.8

2star

D

16.2

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.0

5star

said over the pre season that 2021 was his most enjoyable year of footy. Not either of the prelim years where we won 2 finals each. But the year we won the spoon. He said it once and then doubled down on it in a later interview.

He found more enjoyment winning a spoon than playing finals.

He is part of a long history of senior north players failing in round 1 (ambushed), being “bitterly disappointed” with yet another close loss, giving up comfortable leads to lose.

 

[Gasometer]

I would have thought Rottweilers were more your style

They will do too

 

[Gasometer]

Maybe not the place for it, but just thought I’d say here anyway.

Remember how we used to give up big leads under brad Scott.

The Kerridge family say hi

 

[gokangas]

Jack ziebell said over the pre season that 2021 was his most enjoyable year of footy. Not either of the prelim years where we won 2 finals each. But the year we won the spoon. He said it once and then doubled down on it in a later interview.

He found more enjoyment winning a spoon than playing finals.

He is part of a long history of senior north players failing in round 1 (ambushed), being “bitterly disappointed” with yet another close loss, giving up comfortable leads to lose.

Did he really? Don't know how I missed that. Extraordinary. Is there some context to the statement that changes the meaning?

 

[the big lebowski]

Did he really? Don't know how I missed that. Extraordinary. Is there some context to the statement that changes the meaning?

Context makes it worse.

He said it in some form of media initially and then repeated it about 1-2 weeks later on radio with Gerard Healy. The second time he started by acknowledging that he’d said that recently and then emphasised that some might find it surprising that he enjoyed a wooden spoon year more than any other year of his football career but he maintained it was.

His reasoning was providing leadership to a young group etc.

 

[Mav]

No word of a lie, for training we use old rugby league balls given to us by The Storm because we can’t afford new footballs. So we have no idea how to kick a proper footy.

 

[Shinboner1]

Has anyone gone to training?
All the videos the club post we are either stuffing around or going at half intensity. This might just be a coincidence, but I’ve never seen us going flat sticks in any sort of social posts etc.
Ive queried this for a while......sides like the Braves and Swans etc flick the ball round at absolute pace. We rarely do this in games.
We also rarely have that quick overlap runner flying past after a mark or free, taking advantage of the stand rule.
What are we doing at training? I’d seriously love to know from track watchers. Something ain’t right with our skill set

We don't do a lot and rarely go super hard even at the main training before a game.
I went on Thursday last week and it wasainly curcut drills with some match sim and minor situational work. I may have missed something but I tell you what; we're not training like a team that's bottom of the ladder who struggles to play 4 quarters.
I noted similar issues with intensity when I used to watch us back in dec/jan

 

[gokangas]

No word of a lie, for training we use old rugby league balls given to us by The Storm because we can’t afford new footballs. So we have no idea how to kick a proper footy.

Surely this is a gag.

 

[Ligma]

Surely this is a gag.

“Surely this is a gag.”

 

[rickety]

I can think of 3 blokes, off top of my head, who were absolute outstanding kicks of the ball when they came to North, only to end up soft non gut-running blokes without the ability to use their natural ability.
BreadMac, TomMurphy and Ahern.
We have virtually no one, apart from Hall, who can kick the ball as a low dart over 50-60. Even Cunners not a massive roost of the ball.
We haven’t drafted blokes with outstanding kicking efficiency, so it’s no surprise our standards are pretty poor. There‘s no one setting high standards with ball use.

I still back this blokes kick. A right footer that hits a ball like a lefty, not a lefty like LMac though.

 

[joegreen]

Skills under pressure
Skills under fatigue

Two very different scenarios that both need to be trained for.

Skills under pressure

I posted this in the VFL thread the other day. Not my words but in the context of this thread, pressure can be self imposed or external. Either way if the players are uncertain what to do it can lead to skill errors.

"Elite players feel confident in games when there´s clarity in the game plan & they have options for different scenarios. IMO on elite level: Tactical coaching > motivational speeches"

“you do not rise to the level of your goals; you fall to the level of your systems.”

"You sink to the automation of your training."

Basically saying under pressure you're on auto pilot. Until then you are prone to making mistakes (skills or decision making) In fact it is saying in a way there is no decision making... not enough time. You just know what to do and your team mates just know what you're going to do. That predictability in each other is key. Currently that is not there.

Skills under fatigue (i.e. fitness)

Even from a solid or even good base it can take multiple years to build to elite. And when a program changes it can take further years to adapt and see the benefits. Literally years. There are no short cuts here. I can't emphasise this enough. The rate at which individuals mature plays a part too. But even then that is more their ability to cope with the load as opposed to maximising their capability. It still will take them years to hit their peak.

The other conflating point is people are complex adaptive systems. And what works for one person does not necessarily work for another - for both handling pressure and/or fatigue. This is saying how people learn, adapt and execute is different. And trying to change how an athlete moves naturally may be good or bad... You just don't know till you actually do it. (You could spend hours down this rabbit hole)

Very broadly in sports you can have two types of approaches - system or tailored. For system coaches they have their philosophy and god help me that is what will deliver results. For tailored it is a case of figuring out what works best for the person or team. Both have their pros and cons. And the reality is most approaches end up being a hybrid of some kind.

Personally I have no idea where our football and fitness programs lie on this scale and how they intersect. For mine we are way beyond the see ball, get ball mentality. We now know enough about elite performance (game style, pressure, fatigue - skills) that there is a tremendous amount that goes into success.

Point is - it takes years and years. And if you keep changing too soon you never realise the benefits (you cash out too soon and you're return is less) - you need to commit to a program (based on sound evidence - the best information you have, risk appetite etc) and persist. That's not to say you don't adjust and embed flexibility but it has to be within the parameters of the base program.

Of course if you bet wrong. Well there you go. You need to start again. Failure is our best teacher.