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Waussie

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Well it’s settled then JZ is playing down back until he isn’t good luck to him.

my two cents on playing the kids, we all want to see them play as soon as possible, but I am hoping we only select guys that show they earn a shot and not because they are the new shinny toys.
Agree and vice versa
 
Apr 24, 2013
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I don't disagree that it could work.
Just that given the strength of our 22 (not many spaces for kids) we'll be taking away one of the few avenues of development.
I don't want to go back to a similar BS system where the kids don't develop and end up in their early-mid 20s with sub 30 games.

Young defenders are going to have their "development" stifled because Jack Ziebell is playing in the backline?

Well I suppose Xerri's development is stuffed while we play Goldstein.

It's a patently ridiculous claim.
 

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Shinboner1

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Young defenders are going to have their "development" stifled because Jack Ziebell is playing in the backline?

Well I suppose Xerri's development and is stuffed while we play Goldstein.

It's a patently ridiculous claim.
Come on mate.
There's a spot there for a young kid to play and then a forward (capt that plays if fit) gets trialled in that position.
There's no longer that position for the kid to play.
Seems pretty easy to me.
To make comparisons to xerri and ruck is idiotic because he's already played a forward role that also pinch hits in the ruck.
Of course there's space for him in another (similar position).
 
Apr 24, 2013
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Come on mate.
There's a spot there for a young kid to play and then a forward (capt that plays if fit) gets trialled in that position.
There's no longer that position for the kid to play.
Seems pretty easy to me.

It IS pretty easy S1.

The spot's there when someone else earns it and takes it, not when they are gifted it.
 

kaboom kid

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God I hope this isn’t the case. He could be Nobles by Thursday of Round 2.




Has anyone said we are guaranteed a premiership?

Not a single person has said this, it’s about positioning yourself to be one out and one back and giving yourself a chance. It’s an ultra competitive team sport with a salary cap without many certainties at all, except these 3:

1. Turner will not average more than .5 goals per game
2. Atley will not use his pace and dynamism to advantage the team
3. Hall is the least Shinbonery Player I’ve ever seen.

That my friend is bankable, which is why certain supporters don’t see it the way you do. Irrespective of your rather nuanced/convoluted concept of being better.

All I’m proposing is to select players on their ceiling, not their actual output, which is why you would never have Turner ahead of Taylor, ever. Or probably Atley over Perez for that matter. And I love Jack, I want him to get back to his best and have absolutely no issue with him being trialled down back, forward or where ever he is needed. He is the captain for a reason and perhaps more specifically one of the senior players we need to protect the kids as they come through.

As for your Supercoach fallacy you run-with. SuperCoach is Champion Data and the bloke who ran Champion Data is now our list manager... Are you honestly suggesting that we are not taking SuperCoach or Champion Data into consideration?? I’ve seen you use Champion Data based stats many times to back up one of your petty disputes, SuperCoachSupercoach meh meh meh wah wah wah. It’s not as good as the eye test but it’s the best we have at this moment.

Come on mate, you are better than this.

fu**, we allll need an instant bit of gratification, but you shouldn’t hang sh*t on those blokes within our supporter group who have the patience and the willingness to swim through a river of sh*t in order to potentially produce a premiership standard list.

And yes, we all know everything you and others say is correct in terms of Melbourne and Carlton (both of whom are btw currently significantly closer to Finals football than us despite completely ******* up multiple drafts). The thing that bothers me re: that analysis is this - what if we don’t fu** up the drafts like they did? What if our development program is 5x better? What if for 2-3 drafts we ******* nail it out of the Park and become capable of building a ******* Dynasty? Isn’t that what we are all here for? I know I am, like you, in a football sense I am miserable and have been for 20 years but I aim higher than 8th for my football club. I’d rather finish 18th than 8th in 2021. In any case, we’ll see who’s closer to the pin

All I want to see is 1-2 stirring victories on the back of the kids. Watching us eek out 6-7 wins on the back of Goldy, Cunners and Tarrant etc is borderline irrelevant. I’m sorry mate, but that IMO is fact.
Disagree. Losing begets losing. Getting destroyed every week demoralises the kids and ingrains a losing culture....witness Carlton and Melbourne who churned through a succession of number one draft picks sacrificed at the altar of 'playing the kids'.
 

kaboom kid

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If they earn their spot it’s theirs.
Exactly. They have to earn their spot. Plenty of them do. Eg Simpkin McDonald and LDU who played seniors in their first year and have rarely been dropped since. Playing players that don't deserve a shot just because they are young and have a 'high ceiling' is crazy. Standards matter.
 
Apr 24, 2013
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Exactly. They have to earn their spot. Plenty of them do. Eg Simpkin McDonald and LDU who played seniors in their first year and have rarely been dropped since. Playing players that don't deserve a shot just because they are young and have a 'high ceiling' is crazy. Standards matter.


Wayne ****ing Carey was dropped back to the reserves, BUT OH NO, NOT FLYNN PEREZ OR KYRON HAYDEN.

 

Waussie

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It IS pretty easy S1.

The spot's there when someone else earns it and takes it, not when they are gifted it.
Just to clarify, so if JZ sucks in the backline do they find somewhere else to play him eg. Mid, Forward or do we keep moving things around to facilitate an old soldier?
 
Apr 24, 2013
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Just to clarify, so if JZ sucks in the backline do they find somewhere else to play him eg. Mid, Forward or do we keep moving things around to facilitate an old soldier?

I won't answer a question that is framed with such absurd assumptions.

It's the sort of question you would expect from a teenager.
 
I don't disagree that it could work.
Just that given the strength of our 22 (not many spaces for kids) we'll be taking away one of the few avenues of development.
I don't want to go back to a similar BS system where the kids don't develop and end up in their early-mid 20s with sub 30 games.

I’m also keen toe sure opportunities for our form youngsters that earn a spot.

however the point of Jz down back to play a Hodge style role suggests they are expecting a very young team so perhaps our concerns are unfounded.
 

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Shinboner1

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I’m also keen toe sure opportunities for our form youngsters that earn a spot.

however the point of Jz down back to play a Hodge style role suggests they are expecting a very young team so perhaps our concerns are unfounded.
Yeah but is it worth that position over some much needed pace that we spend draft/trade capital to bring in?
 
Jun 4, 2013
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Yeah but is it worth that position over some much needed pace that we spend draft/trade capital to bring in?
The other players don't just disappear into the aether forever if they aren't in the senior side round 1.
 

Waussie

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I’m also keen toe sure opportunities for our form youngsters that earn a spot.

however the point of Jz down back to play a Hodge style role suggests they are expecting a very young team so perhaps our concerns are unfounded.
Isn't that what Taz and Corr are for?
 
Apr 24, 2013
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I would have thought so myself and I’m not convinced he’ll be full time down back but I’ll need to trust the Coach on this for now;)

I don't know why you even bothered to answer such a ridiculous question.

A comparison between Ziebell as a loose defender & Tarrant and Corr clearly highlights a significant level of football ignorance.
 
Dec 1, 2013
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Jack's earned the right to have a go at adapting to a new role, and we're training him for it over an off-season rather than half way through the year due to injuries or something of the like

If he fails miserably then so be it, Noble isn't Brad Scott, he'll take him out of the team as soon as there isn't an effective spot for him
 
Apr 24, 2013
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Jack's earned the right to have a go at adapting to a new role, and we're training him for it over an off-season rather than half way through the year due to injuries or something of the like

If he fails miserably then so be it, Noble isn't Brad Scott, he'll take him out of the team as soon as there isn't an effective spot for him


Do you seriously believe that Jack needs to be "trained" to play the role of a defender?

He's a 218 game footballer, not a 9 year old child.
 
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Dec 1, 2013
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Dio you seriously believe that Jack needs to be "trained" to play the role of a defender?

He's a 218 game footballer, not a 9 year old child.
I don't think he needs to be taught how to beat his man for the footy or see the game unfold from the backline, but playing an intercept / quarterback type role and setting up attack from our defence isn't something he's spent his career doing
 
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