Transfer discussion thread

[SM]

SM I don't know what you're laughing at mate.

The best managers are not always the ones who win a heap of trophies. Some guys like developing teams and are exceptionally good at it. Rich owners with open cheque-books mean nothing in the context of the conversation.

You are free to your own opinion. Pep Guardiola and Mauricio Pochettino say he's a genius and I think their credibility on the subject is almost unparalleled.

It certainly makes it a waste of time posting on here if someone is just going to show up to belittle the opinions of others.

Haven't you basically used the opinions of Pep and Poch to bulldoze aside anyone with a contrasting opinion on Bielsa's Leeds?

My God, the way you go on about him he's the best thing since sliced bread and it's amazing that Leeds haven't built a statue in his honour yet.

 

[Pykie]

Haven't you basically used the opinions of Pep and Poch to bulldoze aside anyone with a contrasting opinion on Bielsa's Leeds?

My God, the way you go on about him he's the best thing since sliced bread and it's amazing that Leeds haven't built a statue in his honour yet.

We went a step further, we renamed a street after him.





Not to mention the Estadio Marcelo Bielsa is a 42,000 seat stadium named in his honor.

He might get a stand at the Elland Road redevelopment the way he is going.

 

[Indie_]

SM I don't know what you're laughing at mate.

The best managers are not always the ones who win a heap of trophies. Some guys like developing teams and are exceptionally good at it. Rich owners with open cheque-books mean nothing in the context of the conversation.

You are free to your own opinion. Pep Guardiola and Mauricio Pochettino say he's a genius and I think their credibility on the subject is almost unparalleled.

It certainly makes it a waste of time posting on here if someone is just going to show up to belittle the opinions of others.

So what happened at Marseille, Lille, Lazio? How did those clubs develop under the vaunted Bielsa? Even at Bilbao he inherited a golden generation of players and wasn't able to develop anything after they left. No one is saying he's a bad coach, but trying to pass him off as the greatest coach in the world is delusional.

Guardiola and Pochettino's comments mean about as much as any other comments coaches make in press conferences. Of course they will give praise to other managers, no matter who they are. Literally after he called him a genius, Guardiola says he's sure that Bielsa will be a great success at Lille. How did that one go?

I think if you're trying to prove someone who has won a single trophy in the last fifteen years is the best manager in the world, you might need to bring something more than a couple of quotes in a puff piece article.

 

[Kompany]

So what happened at Marseille, Lille, Lazio? How did those clubs develop under the vaunted Bielsa? Even at Bilbao he inherited a golden generation of players and wasn't able to develop anything after they left. No one is saying he's a bad coach, but trying to pass him off as the greatest coach in the world is delusional.

Guardiola and Pochettino's comments mean about as much as any other comments coaches make in press conferences. Of course they will give praise to other managers, no matter who they are. Literally after he called him a genius, Guardiola says he's sure that Bielsa will be a great success at Lille. How did that one go?

I think if you're trying to prove someone who has won a single trophy in the last fifteen years is the best manager in the world, you might need to bring something more than a couple of quotes in a puff piece article.

You obviously can't rank managers. Some are great at managing a star-studded squad, others at making an average squad overperform... Swap Guardiola and Chris Wilder, and quite likely both City and Sheffield Utd would be worse off.

Guardiola and Pochettino made their comments because they clearly rate something in Bielsa's work very highly. The way Guardiola talks about him, that doesn't sound like being nice and giving a colleague some praise.

Bielsa's a character who sticks to certain principles. He left Marseille because they made changes to his contract. He walked out on Lazio because they didn't sign any of the 7 players the president had told him they'd sign, while 18 players had left the club. And I remember at Lille he fell out with the board because he wanted to go to the funeral of a close friend, and the club didn't let him.

He lead Athletic to a EL final and the following season, the club sold Javi Martinez, while Llorente wasn't allowed to play due to disagreements with the club over his new contract.

It took ages for him to sign a new contract, but from all reports it was clear that he was always going to sign, but that it took ages to work out all the details. Something similar happened when he signed the first time. Too many coaches are happy to sign a contract and then publicly complain about the board when they don't get what they want. Then I prefer Bielsa's way really.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Haven't you basically used the opinions of Pep and Poch to bulldoze aside anyone with a contrasting opinion on Bielsa's Leeds?

My God, the way you go on about him he's the best thing since sliced bread and it's amazing that Leeds haven't built a statue in his honour yet.

I'm not bulldozing anyone.

Have a look at your own posting history before you hurl shit from the cheap seats.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

So what happened at Marseille, Lille, Lazio? How did those clubs develop under the vaunted Bielsa? Even at Bilbao he inherited a golden generation of players and wasn't able to develop anything after they left. No one is saying he's a bad coach, but trying to pass him off as the greatest coach in the world is delusional.

Guardiola and Pochettino's comments mean about as much as any other comments coaches make in press conferences. Of course they will give praise to other managers, no matter who they are. Literally after he called him a genius, Guardiola says he's sure that Bielsa will be a great success at Lille. How did that one go?

I think if you're trying to prove someone who has won a single trophy in the last fifteen years is the best manager in the world, you might need to bring something more than a couple of quotes in a puff piece article.

I never said he was the best manager in the world. I simply relayed what two other top class managers said.

I said he was a genius. Old mate SM took offence and that's where this started.

So, don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Cruyff14]

Haven't you basically used the opinions of Pep and Poch to bulldoze aside anyone with a contrasting opinion on Bielsa's Leeds?

I thought the same thing.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I thought the same thing.

And again I will say, go back to where this started. I'll give you a hint...SM was being the dismissive prick most of his posts suggest.

I never claimed Bielsa was the best manager in the world. Not once. I took offence to SM ridiculing an opinion that he didn't like but from what I read he will pile on Leeds every chance he gets.

 

[Pykie]

So what happened at Marseille, Lille, Lazio? How did those clubs develop under the vaunted Bielsa? Even at Bilbao he inherited a golden generation of players and wasn't able to develop anything after they left. No one is saying he's a bad coach, but trying to pass him off as the greatest coach in the world is delusional.

Guardiola and Pochettino's comments mean about as much as any other comments coaches make in press conferences. Of course they will give praise to other managers, no matter who they are. Literally after he called him a genius, Guardiola says he's sure that Bielsa will be a great success at Lille. How did that one go?

I think if you're trying to prove someone who has won a single trophy in the last fifteen years is the best manager in the world, you might need to bring something more than a couple of quotes in a puff piece article.

"Puff piece"

 

[99 Problems]

I think Bielsa would have one of the best footballing minds going around. Pep and Pochettino really do credit a lot of their tactical success to Bielsa’s ideology. However that’s a long way from actually being one of the best managers in the world. He’s been erratic, capable of an implosion and has a trend of having a limited lifespan on how long his methods work on a playing group.

Personally I really like him but in the last decade there has been a massive management turnover across the biggest clubs in Europe with a lot of positions being vacant. There’s a reason Bielsa didn’t end up in any of those jobs, and it’s not because he didn’t want any of them.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

"Puff piece"

Nah, he's average mate. A few ignorant twits on Bigfooty say he's not that good.

 

[Zidane98]

Atletico rejected $140 million Gimenez bid from Man City, says president | The World Game

Atletico Madrid rejected a £78million (A$140m) offer from Manchester City for Jose Gimenez, the La Liga club's president Enrique Cerezo said.

theworldgame.sbs.com.au

AM turned down a £78m bid for Gimenez from City.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I think Bielsa would have one of the best footballing minds going around. Pep and Pochettino really do credit a lot of their tactical success to Bielsa’s ideology. However that’s a long way from actually being one of the best managers in the world. He’s been erratic, capable of an implosion and has a trend of having a limited lifespan on how long his methods work on a playing group.

Personally I really like him but in the last decade there has been a massive management turnover across the biggest clubs in Europe with a lot of positions being vacant. There’s a reason Bielsa didn’t end up in any of those jobs, and it’s not because he didn’t want any of them.

A few of them are like that mate. Mourinho shows up to clubs, gets the owner to write some big cheques, wins a few things and then blows the place up from the inside before he gets the sack.

And very few would say that he isn't one of the best managers in the world, as much as I hate the fact that he is in charge at my club.

But it isn't just about trophies. You can be a great manager and win nothing. It comes down to what your club achieved relative to their resource and that of their opposition. Its about how you develop talent. It's about how you impact the next generation of managers. It's a very simplistic view to make it just about trophies won.

If I manage Manchester City to the title and you manage Burnley and they finish second by a point, who has done the better job?

 

[Cruyff14]

A few of them are like that mate. Mourinho shows up to clubs, gets the owner to write some big cheques, wins a few things and then blows the place up from the inside before he gets the sack.

And very few would say that he isn't one of the best managers in the world, as much as I hate the fact that he is in charge at my club.

But it isn't just about trophies. You can be a great manager and win nothing. It comes down to what your club achieved relative to their resource and that of their opposition. Its about how you develop talent. It's about how you impact the next generation of managers. It's a very simplistic view to make it just about trophies won.

If I manage Manchester City to the title and you manage Burnley and they finish second by a point, who has done the better job?

Sport is generally about winning though.

The greatest managers have all won a huge number of trophies.

The ones who haven't won any aren't remembered.

 

[99 Problems]

A few of them are like that mate. Mourinho shows up to clubs, gets the owner to write some big cheques, wins a few things and then blows the place up from the inside before he gets the sack.

And very few would say that he isn't one of the best managers in the world, as much as I hate the fact that he is in charge at my club.

But it isn't just about trophies. You can be a great manager and win nothing. It comes down to what your club achieved relative to their resource and that of their opposition. Its about how you develop talent. It's about how you impact the next generation of managers. It's a very simplistic view to make it just about trophies won.

If I manage Manchester City to the title and you manage Burnley and they finish second by a point, who has done the better job?

Over the course of a career though, the manager who finishes 2nd with Burnley gets the job at City or one of their title rivals. They don’t end up at another mid/lower table club unless there’s something that prevents the big clubs getting involved.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Over the course of a career though, the manager who finishes 2nd with Burnley gets the job at City or one of their title rivals. They don’t end up at another mid/lower table club unless there’s something that prevents the big clubs getting involved.

Maybe but I don't necessarily agree.

Not all managers want to manage Real Madrid or Manchester United. You could be right that Bielsa has been overlooked for some of those jobs but it is also likely that he never wanted them.

He is known to be a prickly SOB though so there may be something to it.

 

[Pykie]

Sport is generally about winning though.

The greatest managers have all won a huge number of trophies.

The ones who haven't won any aren't remembered.

This is exactly the mentality. You just don't understand him and what he's about.

He wants to win, but it's not his sole focus.


There is absolutely no way he would manage a PSG, Man Utd type club.

It's not what he's about.


People just struggle to believe there would be a guy like this in modern football. They don't understand it.

They think because he signs one year deals it's because he's erratic. No it's because he's humble.

They think he would just jump on the biggest team that came along to him? No, he likes to build up clubs and mould them to what he likes and how it's done

He preaches humility and hard work, much like the All Blacks ethos. He stops training and takes the players out for 2 hours a fortnight to go and pick up rubbish on the side of the road. He makes them clean and mop all the change rooms after he's flogged them for 12 hours a day training.

He moved out of the 5 star hotel the club got him and moved into a 1 bedroom flat above a shop.

He drives a Volkswagen golf, who he haggled the shit out of the local Leeds dealership on the final price because he thought it was a little to high. He still walks to work and the ground every single morning.

He hosts all his scouting meetings in local Leeds café and coffee shops.

He goes to the same little restaurant every Friday night who hold a tab for him that he fixes up every month.


He is about the beautiful game and the way he believes it should be played, not solely about the result and he certainly isn't as narcissistic enough to worry about his trophy cabinet.

I'd say even if he won a World Cup or an EPL title, he would be far prouder of the fact he'd influenced modern tactics and moulded modern coaches like Pep, Poch etc than any individual trophy or honor.

He holds values and integrity above all else. Hence why if he isn't given what he's promised when he joins a club, he just walks away. If you break his trust you don't get second chance.

You see his Wikipedia page. Pep etc see the 1 vs 1 marking system counter press, they see the training standards he brought to modern football, they see the 3-1-3-3 he made famous with Chille or the 4-2-3-1 at Bilbao etc.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Sport is generally about winning though.

The greatest managers have all won a huge number of trophies.

The ones who haven't won any aren't remembered.

Dunno. Freo fans thought Ross Lyon was a great coach.

I'll jump back to the thread topic now. I've had my rant(s).

 

[SM]

I never said he was the best manager in the world. I simply relayed what two other top class managers said.

I said he was a genius. Old mate SM took offence and that's where this started.

So, don't put words in my mouth.

Lol I took offence did I? I think there's only one person getting upset here.

 

[Gameova_]

Atletico rejected $140 million Gimenez bid from Man City, says president | The World Game

Atletico Madrid rejected a £78million (A$140m) offer from Manchester City for Jose Gimenez, the La Liga club's president Enrique Cerezo said.

theworldgame.sbs.com.au

AM turned down a £78m bid for Gimenez from City.

Haven't they spent enough on that potato filled backline

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Lol I took offence did I? I think there's only one person getting upset here.

You think I'm upset?

That's pretty funny.

 

[SM]

You think I'm upset?

That's pretty funny.

And again I will say, go back to where this started. I'll give you a hint...SM was being the dismissive prick most of his posts suggest.

I never claimed Bielsa was the best manager in the world. Not once. I took offence to SM ridiculing an opinion that he didn't like but from what I read he will pile on Leeds every chance he gets.

I mean, I'm just going off your own admission.

 

[Gameova_]

After all the pissing and moaning by Bobby Duncans former agent who promised he would get first team action at Fiorentina he is close to joining Derby on a free after spending a season in Italy playing u19s.

Forgot that potato even existed.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I mean, I'm just going off your own admission.

I got over it mate.

I've read through some of your stuff. I know how you roll. The above is further evidence.

It's apparent that reasonable debate is beyond you. That's ok, there are plenty of others willing to be reasonable. It was literally the very first post of mine you ever quoted and it was done to just dismiss what you didn't agree with.

I should have thought better of continuing the discussion with someone who won't debate in good faith.

Enjoy the season.

 

[Gameova_]

Dunno. Freo fans thought Ross Lyon was a great coach.

I'll jump back to the thread topic now. I've had my rant(s).

Yeah I remember arguing with Freo fans that ross was a better coach than b Scott. I'd stop watching north if we had Lyon as coach