Opinion Transgender footballers

[Cleric]

With the trans debate people say their is a difference between sex and gender. Sex is what.your biology is, and gender is a social construct. Then with this trans people in sport debate maybe its a simple fix. We just say that football is divided by sex, and not gender.

While I am not a trans person, nor even know one personally, I understand it would be very difficult. I am a guy, always have been and feel like one.
So to feel and believe I was actually a women mentally, while being a man physically, I can only imagine how that would mess with your mental health and reduce your ability to function at a level required to succeed. Its no wonder there is 40% suicide rate.
If someone makes the decision that for their mental health they need to transition into the opposite gender then I support them to do so. I am a libertarian. However, it almost seems to be a trend in some of the extreme left to claim this status. Almost to the extent of taking the piss. I saw an interview with a guy who claimed he was trans and identified as a women. He didnt make any attempt to look like a women, and even had a beard. He claimed that as gender was a social construct he didnt need to transition. No hormones, no surgery, no dresses, and not even a face razer. But he demanded he be addressed as a woman.
And then of course everyone pushes the envelope, to where we have gender fluid, pansexual, transable, transage, transpecies, elfkin etc etc.
To my mind this takes away the serious issues true trans people have to deal with, and turns people against anyone trans.
End rant...

 

[John Who]

I'll give you credit you have balls to keep posting.

When they're gentitalia doesn't match thier gender WTF.

Seriously.

I've worked with transgender and these people are very troubled souls who are vulnerable to all sorts of vices and treatments as result of the cards life dealt with them.

The reality if you're born human but come to believe youre Jesus. Generally a padded cell awaits you.

These people deserve compassion and care but they're still human even if they get the surgery to make them look like Jesus

I think you're definition of mental illness and social acceptance is kind of miscued.
A mental illness is a "persisting abnormal thinking/mood/perception", and is outside the accepted social "norm".

If the accepted "norm" is that transgenders are of a genuine gender (belonging to either male/female) and society accepts them for who they perceive themself as, then it no longer fits with the psychiatric model of "mental illness".

Whereas if someone dresses and shaves like Jesus and claims themself as Jesus and do no miracle acts, then society will NOT accept this as "norm" and therefore IS a "mental illness".

 

[John Who]

With the trans debate people say their is a difference between sex and gender. Sex is what.your biology is, and gender is a social construct. Then with this trans people in sport debate maybe its a simple fix. We just say that football is divided by sex, and not gender.

While I am not a trans person, nor even know one personally, I understand it would be very difficult. I am a guy, always have been and feel like one.
So to feel and believe I was actually a women mentally, while being a man physically, I can only imagine how that would mess with your mental health and reduce your ability to function at a level required to succeed. Its no wonder there is 40% suicide rate.
If someone makes the decision that for their mental health they need to transition into the opposite gender then I support them to do so. I am a libertarian. However, it almost seems to be a trend in some of the extreme left to claim this status. Almost to the extent of taking the piss. I saw an interview with a guy who claimed he was trans and identified as a women. He didnt make any attempt to look like a women, and even had a beard. He claimed that as gender was a social construct he didnt need to transition. No hormones, no surgery, no dresses, and not even a face razer. But he demanded he be addressed as a woman.
And then of course everyone pushes the envelope, to where we have gender fluid, pansexual, transable, transage, transpecies, elfkin etc etc.
To my mind this takes away the serious issues true trans people have to deal with, and turns people against anyone trans.
End rant...

I like this rant better than all the other previous rants...

 

[Taylor]

As long as the society is mature enough to backflip on it's accepted norms if there is suitable evidence then it can roll with every new discovery that comes along towards a more inclusive society.

There would be a very interesting debate if non standard heterosexual and non binary genders were shown to be a treatable mental condition.

A lot of identity based off them would leave a lot of people very lost. It would be like another coming out.

 

[John Who]

As long as the society is mature enough to backflip on it's accepted norms if there is suitable evidence then it can roll with every new discovery that comes along towards a more inclusive society.

There would be a very interesting debate if non standard heterosexual and non binary genders were shown to be a treatable mental condition.

A lot of identity based off them would leave a lot of people very lost. It would be like another coming out.

You're now talking outside the scope of this forum. lol

The main thing is that if you can function just like anyone else and don't act to annoy/harm others, then at the end of the day, it shouldn't really matter so much what you perceive yourself as. It really shouldn't matter what gender/sex/gonads you have, other than for scientific categorisation.

 

[Taylor]

The main thing is that if you can function just like anyone else and don't act to annoy/harm others, then at the end of the day, it shouldn't really matter so much what you perceive yourself as. It really shouldn't matter what gender/sex/gonads you have, other than for scientific categorisation.

I agree, someone's character is infinitely more important than any other feature they might experience prejudice over - that's why prejudice is so vile.

 

[Interloperer]

I don’t think anything is more logical than trying to clarify what the dividing lines are, particularly as it pertains to the topic at hand of competing full contact sports

In general life it's basically irrelevant.

as it pertains to the topic of women competing in full contact sports? It's a good thing that work has already been well-researched and done for you and the standard to my understanding is:

• Be a woman
• Trans women must have had testosterone near zero, (below some low measure,) for at least 12 months

Pretty simple.

 

[Sanders]

In general life it's basically irrelevant.

as it pertains to the topic of women competing in full contact sports? It's a good thing that work has already been well-researched and done for you and the standard to my understanding is:

• Be a woman
• Trans women must have had testosterone near zero, (below some low measure,) for at least 12 months

Pretty simple.

If you’ve been following this thread you’d know that the work hasn’t been well researched and done

And i’m not sure any women has testosterone near zero

 

[kirsti]

In general life it's basically irrelevant.

as it pertains to the topic of women competing in full contact sports? It's a good thing that work has already been well-researched and done for you and the standard to my understanding is:

• Be a woman
• Trans women must have had testosterone near zero, (below some low measure,) for at least 12 months

Pretty simple.

There is no research or science behind the IOC 10nmols Policy this was a fictional level determined in half a day to lesson liability in the divisional court in Toronto Canada in the historic human rights victory of Canadian Transitioned Woman’s Cyclist Kristen Worley.

 

[kirsti]

If you’ve been following this thread you’d know that the work hasn’t been well researched and done

And i’m not sure any women has testosterone near zero

Mine is .01 nmols my body is suffering complete androgen deprivation suffering severe post menopausal symptoms.

XY women (fully transitioned) are the only athletes competing unhealthy in a complete androgen deprivation state and well beyond a (post menopause state). Incredibly unhealthy and spore eventually becomes impossible as the body deteriorates as it cannot respond to day-to-day functions without androgens as the bodies primary communications and regulator hormone.

Moreover and important, the XY transitioned female is the only body that can show the health and key markers where the body turns on then off, as the body loses its ability to regulate androgens.

 

[kirsti]

As long as the society is mature enough to backflip on it's accepted norms if there is suitable evidence then it can roll with every new discovery that comes along towards a more inclusive society.

There would be a very interesting debate if non standard heterosexual and non binary genders were shown to be a treatable mental condition.

A lot of identity based off them would leave a lot of people very lost. It would be like another coming out.

Maybe heterosexuality will be determined as a mental condition in the future.

 

[Interloperer]

If you’ve been following this thread you’d know that the work hasn’t been well researched and done

And i’m not sure any women has testosterone near zero

Sadly this thread isn't an accurate summation of informed and scientific consensus.

Also that is because cis women typically do not take medication to eliminate the presence and effect of testosterone.

 

[John Who]

Maybe heterosexuality will be determined as a mental condition in the future.

Or maybe there won't be a sex/gender category anymore...and...humans are classified by the percentage of how much metal they have (eg. pacemakers, robotic arms, joint replacements....)

 

[Taylor]

Maybe heterosexuality will be determined as a mental condition in the future.

It absolutely could. There could be a future where monogamy is strictly with opposite sex partners, in case children are born and need both parents to support, but same sex relationships are super casual and free.

"Thanks for the lift to the airport" *roady*

 

[kirsti]

Just FYI Hermaphrodite ('both sexes') isn't the correct term anymore - it's Intersex.

There are dozens of different intersex variations, some are as common as red hair. Basically, a person with intersex variation isn't wholly male or wholly female in one (or more) physical/chromosomal/hormonal way.
So, not just to do with 'girl bits and boy bits'.

Intersexed is not used anymore it has been replaced with Disorders of Sexual Differentiation (DSD).

 

[kirsti]

Sadly this thread isn't an accurate summation of informed and scientific consensus.

Also that is because cis women typically do not take medication to eliminate the presence and effect of testosterone.

Some women with a DSD conditions do I have XY chromosomes and don’t take any testosterone blockers I have recently been prescribed testosterone as my body is suffering complete androgen deprivation and my testosterone level is 0.01 nmols per litre of blood.

 

[kirsti]

It absolutely could. There could be a future where monogamy is strictly with opposite sex partners, in case children are born and need both parents to support, but same sex relationships are super casual and free.

"Thanks for the lift to the airport" *roady*

Did you rise in my taxi?

 

[kirsti]

Or maybe there won't be a sex/gender category anymore...and...humans are classified by the percentage of how much metal they have (eg. pacemakers, robotic arms, joint replacements....)

Or maybe people will be classified by their personal traits and abilities.

 

[Cleric]

In general life it's basically irrelevant.

as it pertains to the topic of women competing in full contact sports? It's a good thing that work has already been well-researched and done for you and the standard to my understanding is:

• Be a woman
• Trans women must have had testosterone near zero, (below some low measure,) for at least 12 months

Pretty simple.

Not so simple. Having lived for decades with test levels some 15 times higher than a women which has had an effect on muscle and bone density rates does not equal fair.

 

[Taylor]

Did you rise in my taxi?

I'm a "someone else's uber account" sort of girl.

 

[Sanders]

Sadly this thread isn't an accurate summation of informed and scientific consensus.

Yeah, I’m not going to trust you on this

 

[jaytex]

Intersexed is not used anymore it has been replaced with Disorders of Sexual Differentiation (DSD).

Nowhere did I say "intersexed"

People with intersex variations / DSD commonly identify as "intersex". Its the "I" in LGBTIQ.

 

[Smoooothy]

I have no opinion either way on this, but i'd like to thank all involved in this fascinating thread. it's a great read.

 

[jenny61_99]

You avoid the logic and push into areas of feelings.
I cannot play in a Dwarf league, not because Dwarfs have been teased and marginalized, but rather I dont meet the physical requirements to play. I am not a dwarf. It doesnt matter if I feel I am a Dwarf, just like transable people think they shouldnt have an arm when in fact they have one.
And by that same count, Dwarfs knowing they dont have the genetic physical attributes to play for the LA Lakers went and set up their own leauge in which to play.
By that same token, while a man who thinks he is a women might want to play in the womens comp, the fact he is a male rules him out.
To try and say that because trans people have a difficult life dealing with their situation, the world must change the requirements for males to play against males, and females to play against females is just stupid.
Everyone here wishes the best for trans people. I hope they find happiness and peace.
Again, you seem really motivated about it, so get up and put it into action. Set up a new football league that is for trans people and people who want to play against trans people.

And you avoid the very real issues that Trans people face by throwing in a ridiculous analogy that has * all to do with this issue. I'm talking about YOU facing marginalisation as a result of being too tall. YOU facing bullying because you aren't perceived as "normal". You and others like you trivialising the issue because you simply cannot fathom the whole Trans concept. Some of the biggest hurdles you place in front of trans people is the "unfairness" of their strength (in Hannah's case) advantage over other women. It's no different than Plugger's strength advantage over most of his opponents throughout his career. No different to Sarah Perkins in her first season. Absolutely NO difference. One of the beauties about Aussie Rules is that players of all shapes and sizes play. Look at Fog - man mountain tree trunk legs at 18! Can you imagine how many wiry, spindly legged, opponents he's faced? Was that unfair?

 

[jenny61_99]

Or maybe people will be classified by their personal traits and abilities.

There is ONE race. The human race. A melting pot of glorious differences. If only people would accept the differences in others.