Transgender - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[Gough]

I'm a bigot would have sufficed mate, verbal diarrhoea doesn't make your case any stronger.

 

[raskolnikov]

1) Reducing the multi-faceted group of people who have issues with gender ideology into "conservatives [having issues] with transgender people" is reductionist and useless in terms of understanding the actual issues at hand. Including bigoted individuals who have a problem with anyone different to them on the basis of those differences per se in this discussion is unfruitful and basically constitutes and ad hominem attack (and is thus illogical/irrelevant).

2) Is it your assertion that the number of people involved is in any way relevant to the discussion of the issues at hand in any one particular context? Because that is poor logic. If one person kills another person, that is wrong, regardless of whether or not that is the only case of homicide on the planet in one year.

3) It is incumbent on any well-intentioned individual discussing any particular issue to engage is such a discussion in good faith. Saying that media sites only focus on the most "flamboyant" trans people to focus on and "take down" is one aspect, and indeed true in some cases, such as the abusive, predatory males who say they are females and go on to rape or otherwise abuse women in women's spaces. This has happened, and is a separate issue that informs a few of the other facets of the broader gender ideology debate, not least of all whether we as a society insist on maintaining women's spaces free from all biological males on the basis that no one can determine a priori whether any one or more of those biological males will offend against the biological females. I assume, from your take about the most "flamboyant" transgender people that copped the ire from those media outlets, that you agree that there are some reprehensible people who identify as transgender and have harmed and continue to intend to harm vulnerable people? Arguing that some outlets focus on these individuals is both short-sighted (there are other valid arguments against gender ideology especially as it pertains to children) and problematic (these issues are literally part of some of the core arguments against gender self ID laws) on your part.

4) All consenting adults should be free from harassment if they are engaging in consensual acitivities with other consenting adults in their own private domains. In public, of course, there are different standards, most of which we all observe. No valid argument against trans activism focuses on these aspects... in my experience, the only issues rational people are concerned with in relation to broader trans/gender ideology/activism pertain to aspects wherein existing women's/girls' rights to privacy, safety, and fairness are transgressed, and where the safety and well-being of children are concerned in the context of an unfalsifiable, pseudoscientific domain. Conflating all of this together is disingenuous and basically avoiding the specific issues of concern (aka Strawman fallacy).


Look, I understand you lot live in an echo-chamber, but seriously, do you ALL agree on LITERALLY EVERY nuance of EVERY APECT of the extrememly vexed underpinning issue of gender ideology?

Because that is literally impossible, unless you all have the same zombie mind.

For instance, no one here can tell me they would have no issue if their daughter was excluded from her swimming finals at high school (upper levels, where it really counts, for the purposes of this discussion) because a newly trans-identified male at said school decided he was "a girl". I mean, there are nuances, right? If you literally had some year 12 boy who said on Monday he identifies as a girl, should he take the place of a girl who he edges out in a 200m freestyle swim on the Tuesday?

My point is, there is so much nuance in this discussion that participants in BigFooty and other forums ignore, shout down, or otherwise overlook due to a lack of deeper analysis.

Nice strawman arguments.

 

[stax on the mull]

Do you not think that you should attack the substance of Riley's arguments about young women having to change in front of a fully intact male out of those rather tight swimming costumes rather than attack her as a person?

What you've called substance is the part I said she lied about - adding to the story over time to make her seem a victim of predatory behavior by a transgender swimmer with a penis. In the viral video of her testimony to congress (which had submissions from a wide range of people but somehow only Gaines's testimony got traction) she stated:

"we also had to share a locker room and change in front of this 6’4” fully intact naked male. As I have testified previously, we were not forewarned. We were not asked for our consent. And we did not give our consent to this exposure and exploitation."

From the time Gaines began appearing on the MAGA tour and was part of the Trump presidency campaign (her other infamous viral celebrity moment was on stage when she turned away from Trump as he tried to kiss her), the internet search zone has been flooded with podcasts about her, and featuring her, and by her, but before that time when she found her new and very lucrative vocation in life (her personal profit from campaigning being something else she's lied about) she didn't have that story constructed.

The podcasts I listened to that she featured on before she made that testimony to congress, she spoke about the transgender swimmer coming into the changerooms very quietly and changing on her own in the corner away from everyone else and that, along with the other swimmers, Gaines was well aware beforehand that "Lia" (yes, she used the swimmer's name) would be competing and using the changeroom and how some of the discussion between them had been of a gigglish humour nature of how the private body parts would look. She also self described herself as having a tantrum backstage for the photo shoot where Thomas got to hold the 5th place medal because there wasn't a 2nd medal available for equal 5th.

As far as I know the world swimming authority FINA has prevented transgender swimmers from competing in the female category since June 2022 but hey, maybe Gaines can have a tantrum about the medal for the Nobel Peace Prize that a woman had to give to a man.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Another step on the way to full dehumanisation of transgender people in the United States. Consider this a 'test balloon', soon to fly over other states;

Kansas revoked 1,700 transgender drivers’ licenses. Some are leaving the state

Kansas is one of five states to prohibit trans people from changing the gender marker on their licenses, but it is the first to pass a law that retroactively cancels licenses that were already changed.

www.nbcconnecticut.com

March 11, 2026

Some 1,700 Kansans had their driver’s licenses invalidated last month. It wasn’t for racking up speeding tickets or a DUI charge, but because they are transgender.

Kansas is one of five states to prohibit trans people from changing the gender marker on their licenses, but it is the first to pass a law that retroactively cancels licenses that were already changed. The law also invalidated birth certificates for those who updated their gender markers.

Hundreds of trans drivers already received letters from the state informing them their documents were “invalid immediately” and they “may be subject to additional penalties” if they continue to drive, unless they surrender the license to the Kansas Division of Vehicles and receive a new one with their birth sex.

“I’m pretty heartbroken,” said Jaelynn Abegg, a 41-year-old trans woman living in Wichita who received a letter. She said she will not turn in her license and plans to move this month to another state...

and guess what?

https://www.aclukansas.org/publications/sb244faq/ What is SB 244?

Senate Bill 244 requires transgender people to use the restrooms and other sex-separated facilities in government buildings associated with their sex assigned at birth, while creating new civil and criminal penalties to enforce those restrictions.

Senate Bill 244 changes the rules regarding government IDs for transgender people. It prohibits transgender people from updating their driver’s licenses or state ID cards to reflect their gender, and also invalidates transgender people’s existing driver’s licenses, state IDs, and birth certificates if those documents were issued in Kansas and reflect a gender different from a person’s sex at birth.
Impact on Driver’s Licenses and State IDs

What does this mean for transgender people who have already changed the gender on their Kansas driver’s licenses?

SB 244 says that any driver’s license with a gender marker that is inconsistent with sex at birth is invalid as of February 26, 2026. The law contains no grace period. The Kansas Department of Revenue (KDOR) must provide written notice to anyone whose license is affected by this law, and many people have already received a letter informing them that their state-issued driver’s license is now invalid.

While not everyone with an affected license has received a letter, KDOR’s website now says: Pursuant to this new law, if the gender/sex indication on the face of your current credential does not match your sex assigned at birth, you are directed to surrender your current credential to the Kansas Division of Vehicles (DOV)...

so you can see where this is going, can't you?

Voter ID in Kansas

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

Kansas requires voters to present photo identification (ID) while voting. Accepted forms of ID include driver's licenses or state-issued nondriver's identification cards, U.S. passports, and tribal identification cards. For a list of all accepted forms of ID, see below.


HIGHLIGHTS

• Section 25-2908 of Kansas law requires voters provide "a valid form of identification" in order to cast a ballot.
• Voters must provide their driver's license number or provide a copy of their photo ID when applying for an advanced mail ballot.
• Voters who do not have ID while voting may cast provisional ballots.
• Registered voters without approved photo ID can obtain a free nondriver's identification card from the Kansas Department of Revenue Division of Vehicles...

Senate Bill 244 demands that nobody can apply for the 'free nondriver's identification card' using anything other than their assigned-at-birth gender.

So they're also stripping transgender people of their right to vote as well as their right to live as the gender they wish do be.

Disenfranchisment. Dehumanisation. These are the joys the Conservative Right bring.

EDIT: Added ACLU link

 

[Chief]

The children are saved!

 

[RCAB]

Another step on the way to full dehumanisation of transgender people in the United States. Consider this a 'test balloon', soon to fly over other states;



and guess what?



so you can see where this is going, can't you?



Senate Bill 244 demands that nobody can apply for the 'free nondriver's identification card' using anything other than their assigned-at-birth gender.

So they're also stripping transgender people of their right to vote as well as their right to live as the gender they wish do be.

Disenfranchisment. Dehumanisation. These are the joys the Conservative Right bring.

EDIT: Added ACLU link

That's completely ****ed. Too bad most of them are asleep.

They thought guns were always the biggest issue in the US (and yes they're a very big issue, as they have a ridiculous amount of them) but turns out they're useless for anything meaningful. They're 2A is getting more useless by the hour and as they say "the pen is mightier than the sword."

 

[Cmarsh]

Warnings of abuse as trans women banned from Olympic female events

Under changes announced by the International Olympic Committee, the gender of athletes will be determined by a one-time gene-screening test.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Warnings of abuse as trans women banned from Olympic female events

Under changes announced by the International Olympic Committee, the gender of athletes will be determined by a one-time gene-screening test.

www.abc.net.au

Less about fairness and more about politics?

History maker Kirsty Coventry faces Trump and transgender issues

The Zimbabwean swimming gold medallist has been hailed as a friend of Australia after being elected as the new president of the International Olympic Committee.

www.smh.com.au

March 21, 2025

...The two-time Olympic gold medal-winning swimmer will begin her eight-year term with a lot on her plate, not least handling the IOC’s ties with the US, which has become increasingly inward-looking and erratic in the international arena since Trump resumed power in January.

Proposed US travel restrictions may affect visitors from up to 43 countries, raising concerns from IOC members about a cohort of athletes being unable to obtain visas to participate in the 2028 Games in Los Angeles.

Coventry, a member of the government in her native Zimbabwe who has been the African nation’s sports minister for the past seven years, indicated she would be beginning her own dialogue with Trump soon.

“I have been dealing with, let’s say, difficult men in high positions since I was 20 years old,” she said.

“First and foremost that I have learnt is that communication will be key. That is something that will happen early on. My firm belief is that President Trump is a huge lover of sports. He will want these Games to be significant. He will want them to be a success.”

In a signal of what she is likely to stress to the US administration, she added: “We will not waver from our values and our values of solidarity and ensuring every athlete that qualifies for the Olympic Games has the possibility to attend the Olympic Games and be safe.”

Trump has also made his stance clear on the vexed issue of gender identity in sport, a dominant theme of the Paris Olympics last year, blocking transgender athletes from coming to the US to compete.

It’s a topic that Coventry will also need to tackle in the lead-up to Los Angeles. Under Bach, it has been largely the sporting federations themselves who have determined eligibility policies for transgender and intersex athletes, and controversy erupted in boxing in Paris.

Coventry said the IOC had set up its own taskforce to address the debate, and she wanted the organisation to play more of a leading role.

“My stance is that we will protect the female category and female athletes. I want to work together with the international federations,” she said...

and

Kirsty Coventry: Why IOC banned transgender women from Olympics as Kirsty Coventry cites fairness and gene testing | International Sports News - The Times of India

International Sports News: The International Olympic Committee has made a big decision that will impact future Olympic Games. Transgender women will no longer be allowed to comp.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Mar 26, 2026

...It is still unclear how many transgender athletes compete at this level. At the Tokyo Olympics in 2021, Laurel Hubbard became the first openly transgender woman to compete, but she did not win a medal. No transgender women competed at the Paris 2024 Olympics.

This decision also comes after political pressure in the United States. In 2025, Donald Trump signed an executive order focused on restricting transgender athletes in women’s sports. The IOC’s new rule is seen as aligned with that direction ahead of the Los Angeles Games.

The committee says the gene test used will check for the SRY gene, which is linked to male development. The IOC called it “the most accurate and least intrusive method currently available.”

Still, not everyone agrees. Human rights groups are expected to question this move. As the Olympics move closer to 2028, this decision is likely to remain a major talking point in global sports...

and, from just before Kirsty Coventry became I.O.C President

Kirsty Coventry Opposed to Transgender Athletes as She Bids for International Olympic Committee President

March 9, 2025
Source: The Australian

International Olympic Committee (IOC) presidential hopeful Kirsty Coventry has hardened her views on gender and sport, vowing to keep female competition for biological females if she is elected to replace Thomas Bach. Coventry has also indicated there will be several changes to the Brisbane 2032 Olympic Games, particularly the sports on the program, but also administratively.


Coventry, a 41-year-old from Zimbabwe, is one of the top candidates for the job, and is considered a favourite, along with World Athletics president Sebastian Coe and Spanish banker Juan Antonio Samaranch Jr. Another four candidates, international cycling chief David Lappartient, Prince Feisal Al Hussein of Jordan, International Gymnastics Federation chief Morinari Watanabe and the president of the International Ski Federation Johan Eliasch, are considered outsiders. If the 101 IOC members choose Coventry in the vote held on March 20, she will be the first female president and the first from Africa to head the multibillion-dollar organisation. She will also be a generation younger than many of the members.

In recent weeks, as the presidential campaign has intensified, Coventry has become more opposed to trans women – who are biologically men – competing in the female category. She said a woman is “when you are born a female”, adding that the whole conversation around gender was very simple. “I think every single human being should have access to sport, regardless of your gender,’’ she said. “But when it comes to competing at the Olympic Games and in international competitions there is just two categories: (biological) male and (biological) female...”

EDIT: Made a mess of the quoting and had to tidy up

 

[Gethelred]

A thorough and complete dissection of and deconstruction of the Cass review and the status of gender care in the UK:

 

[Leeda]

The children are saved!

The chill…..
Savior is useful

 

[Kram]

Courage to display common sense is still alive.

 

[Chief]

Courage to display common sense is still alive.

In what way?

 

[Ludovico]

Courage to display common sense is still alive.

It was common sense that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

"Common sense" is just another term for ignorance dressed up as fact.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Courage to display common sense is still alive.

Is this a Harry Potter quote?

 

[Leeda]

Not torching or making anything harder it is …send this to the awareness file…..

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Do you not think that you should attack the substance of Riley's arguments about young women having to change in front of a fully intact male out of those rather tight swimming costumes rather than attack her as a person?

I mean, whatever you think about her as a person, it is incumbent on you and all others opposing her arguments to mount arguments that target the substance of her arguments.

Your post is basically an ad hominem attack.


Do you have daughters? Nieces? Female first cousins once removed? Any other young female relatives? I do. And if any male were changing in their spaces to the extent that they felt uncomfortable or violated, I'd be at the Principal's office (or Vice Chancellor's office) first thing the following day to make sure they fix their protocols.

The bolded can be fixed through privacy cubicles. If you're comfortable in your own skin and can nude up in front of others you can. If you can't or you feel anxious about what you've got or what others might have it is perfectly fine to get changed in private too.

On this protocol at least, everyone can be a winner with a little bit of foresight.

 

[Chief]

Do you not think that you should attack the substance of Riley's arguments about young women having to change in front of a fully intact male out of those rather tight swimming costumes rather than attack her as a person?

She has amped up her initial reaction for the outrage machine.

She has nothing to say that is worth hearing. She can garn.

 

[Kram]

The IOC’s decision to protect the female category is a victory for fairness | Tanya Aldred

Trans and DSD athletes must be treated with respect, and the new testing regime must be run with sensitivity. But this is a step forward, says Guardian sports writer Tanya Aldred

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chief]

The IOC’s decision to protect the female category is a victory for fairness | Tanya Aldred

Trans and DSD athletes must be treated with respect, and the new testing regime must be run with sensitivity. But this is a step forward, says Guardian sports writer Tanya Aldred

www.theguardian.com

Are they going to test everyone and exclude anyone who is too far from the Conservative Binary Norm?

It's only "fair".

 

[MrKK]

Are they going to test everyone and exclude anyone who is too far from the Conservative Binary Norm?

It's only "fair".

Answered in the article

 

[Chief]

Answered in the article

So that's a yes.

Bigots dancing in the street. Awful.

 

[The Tilt]

Are they going to test everyone and exclude anyone who is too far from the Conservative Binary Norm?

It's only "fair".

Groan They're going to exclude anyone that's male and that has male advantage. Biological sex is not a checks notes "Conservative binary norm". (and no, using that term doesn't make you look intelligent).

 

[MrKK]

So that's a yes.

Bigots dancing in the street. Awful.

Please continue mansplaining to female Olympians why they need to have their competitions compromised. Overwhelmingly they support testing (also from the article).

 

[King Huskii]

Please continue mansplaining to female Olympians why they need to have their competitions compromised. Overwhelmingly they support testing (also from the article).

But you can't have an opinion supporting women in sport because you're not a women.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Groan They're going to exclude anyone that's male and that has male advantage. Biological sex is not a checks notes "Conservative binary norm". (and no, using that term doesn't make you look intelligent).

Please continue mansplaining to female Olympians why they need to have their competitions compromised. Overwhelmingly they support testing (also from the article).

But you can't have an opinion supporting women in sport because you're not a women.

What it is, right, is that only trans athletes who have gone through puberty may have a discernible advantage. Trans kids who have been on puberty blockers may not have any advantage at all.

The only solution is head to head testing, from little aths to the elite level. If there is true advantage let the science speak.