Transgender

[Gralin]

Discussion continuing in Part 2 found here

Transgender - Part 2

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

 

[Pie eyed]

Come on. Really?

Let me know how that unisex high-security prison pans out.

Something Igon may be lobbying for from his/her cell me thinks.

 

[Pie eyed]

Who is a professional? Who is a business? Are they not a man in the street? Are most of your interactions with other people in the street?

If a plumber does a job at a person's house and misgenders them (either seemingly deliberately or repeatedly), must they be up for a legal process and potential fines because of miscommunication?

What exactly are we intending to police here?

Idiots who are too stupid to accept how another person identifies themself.

 

[Pie eyed]

I assume Carlson Tucker is the host and resident Trump fanboi?
How are these folk going to respond when Trump is either impeached, shot or committed?

 

[Lebbo73]

Idiots who are too stupid to accept how another person identifies themself.

Idiots who are too stupid to accept that they are either a male or a female 99.99% of the time.

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

I assume Carlson Tucker is the host and resident Trump fanboi?
How are these folk going to respond when Trump is either impeached, shot or committed?

Wouldn't expect you to address any argument put forward. Deflect.

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

Idiots who are too stupid to accept how another person identifies themself.

Are you prepared to accept people identifying as a race that is no part of their ancestry if they like a culture that is associated with the race they would like to identify as?

 

[checkraiseulite]

Aside from the fact that you completely dodged their argument and resorted to shaming instead. I have to ask you.

Do you support the idea of someone being able to choose their race? If someone feels a connection to a culture more commonly associated with a particular race should that person be able identify as that race despite nobody in their ancestry being of that race?

i'd also be interested in the response of certain posters in this thread to the above question.

gough chief geelong_sicko etc

 

[quotemokc]

i'd also be interested in the response of certain posters in this thread to the above question.

gough chief geelong_sicko etc

Maybe they could create their own races like they have done with genders or perhaps they could be race fluid?

 

[Gough]

Personally I'm think of embracing my Quebecois heritage, and identifying as French Canadian. What does race even have to do with this?

 

[checkraiseulite]

Personally I'm think of embracing my Quebecois heritage, and identifying as French Canadian. What does race even have to do with this?

nothing.

but similar to gender it can be identified from DNA etc.

if i make a decision to identify as for example, aboriginal, despite not being of that race genetically, should broader society recognise me as one?

should aboriginals accept me?

 

[WCE1987]

nothing.

but similar to gender it can be identified from DNA etc.

if i make a decision to identify as for example, aboriginal, despite not being of that race genetically, should broader society recognise me as one?

should aboriginals accept me?

Someone definitely likes the idea http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...dity-accepted-transracial-naacp-a7653131.html

 

[ClokesShankedIt]

nothing.

but similar to gender it can be identified from DNA etc.

if i make a decision to identify as for example, aboriginal, despite not being of that race genetically, should broader society recognise me as one?

should aboriginals accept me?

These are good questions. Remember that all those that push degeneracy do so in increments.

 

[checkraiseulite]

These are good questions. Remember that all those that push degeneracy do so in increments.

let's wait for a response first

i'm genuinely interested in the answers and reasoning of Gough Chief Geelong_Sicko

 

[Chief]

nothing.

but similar to gender it can be identified from DNA etc.

if i make a decision to identify as for example, aboriginal, despite not being of that race genetically, should broader society recognise me as one?

should aboriginals accept me?

It isn't the same mate. There are a few generally accepted ways that someone is "Aboriginal". Just like someone can move here from India and call themselves Australian.

 

[Gough]

let's wait for a response first

i'm genuinely interested in the answers and reasoning of Gough Chief Geelong_Sicko

Degeneracy is allowing transnational companies to pay no tax, or locking up refugees on a sandbar in the Pacific, not trying to be a little more understanding of those a bit different from ourselves.

 

[checkraiseulite]

It isn't the same mate. There are a few generally accepted ways that someone is "Aboriginal". Just like someone can move here from India and call themselves Australian.

why isn't it the same?

isn't the relevant thing what you subjectively identify as?

not whether you meet some objective criteria? i.e. some arbitrary percentage of aboriginal blood or a different set of chromosomes?

what are the tests of being aboriginal?

 

[tandino]

Should a white child be classified as an Aboriginal if they were adopted by Aboriginal parents?

 

[checkraiseulite]

Degeneracy is allowing transnational companies to pay no tax, or locking up refugees on a sandbar in the Pacific, not trying to be a little more understanding of those a bit different from ourselves.

let's not get sidetracked.

i didn't call you a degenerate, i just asked for your view on two questions.

who does me identifying as an aboriginal hurt?

is it patronising or offensive to an aboriginal were me to do so? is that where the difference lies?

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Should a white child be classified as an Aborigional if they were adopted by Aboriginal parents?

That's actually a decent question if the child is brought up to be culturally indigenous.

Is a child 1/32nd indigenous brought up by white parents more indigenous than the child adopted by indigenous people in indigenous culture?

 

[Chief]

let's not get sidetracked.

i didn't call you a degenerate, i just asked for your view on two questions.

who does me identifying as an aboriginal hurt?

is it patronising or offensive to an aboriginal were me to do so? is that where the difference lies?

There are a number of things, I don't know them all.

From memory it includes genuine self-identification and acceptance by an Aboriginal group.

The key here is genuine. Not "lol am I a horse if I say I'm a horse?"

 

[igon value]

The article I linked to earlier from Adolph Reed addresses the concept of transracial versus transgender

Is the point supposed to be that Dolezal is lying when she says she identifies as black? Or is it that being black has nothing to do with how you identify? The problem with the first claim is obvious – how do they know? And on what grounds does Jenner get to be telling the truth and Dolezal not? But the problem with the second claim is even more obvious since if you think there’s some biological fact of the matter about what race people actually belong to utterly independent of what race they think they belong to, you’re committed to a view of racial difference as biologically definitive in a way that’s even deeper than sexual difference.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/06/15/jenner-dolezal-one-trans-good-other-not-so-much

What do people believe - that race has a stronger material basis than sex? That is practically impossible.

 

[checkraiseulite]

There are a number of things, I don't know them all.

From memory it includes genuine self-identification and acceptance by an Aboriginal group.

The key here is genuine. Not "lol am I a horse if I say I'm a horse?"

so if i 'genuinely' identify as aboriginal you as a, presumably white, male have no problem with it?

do you agree that the test should include the acceptance criteria? or do you think this is included to prevent affirmative action programs being rorted?

 

[Chief]

so if i 'genuinely' identify as aboriginal you as a, presumably white, male have no problem with it?

do you agree that the test should include the acceptance criteria? or do you think this is included to prevent affirmative action programs being rorted?

As I said I don't have all the info on it.

But get that straw man up on his little post and have at it.

 

[checkraiseulite]

what is your argument? and how do you know i disagree with it?

my point goes to the apparent hypocrisy of the positions adopted by some of the people in this thread if they differentiate between gender and race (in the context of being able to self-identify).

if im going with a fallacy it's the slippery slope one previously used in the thread.