Transgender

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Noidenous

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I believe the thread title is Transgender, your argument is void of fact and evidence, whatever the fu** your bigoted views represent, I’m really not interested anymore.
Same sh*t women, gay/lesbian folk, disabled, immigrants etc had to go through with religious inspired campaigner white people!🖕
Doesn't sound like a very evidence-based argument you're making.

Could you please define 'bigot' and ask yourself if it might apply to your behaviour here?
 

chelseacarlton

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Doesn't sound like a very evidence-based argument you're making.

Could you please define 'bigot' and ask yourself if it might apply to your behaviour here?
I haven’t ******* made any claims bar that many ancient cultures have recognised trans people in their populations, some were even celebrated, like in parts of Asia and in meso Indian cultures.
They make you feel icky don’t they?
Perhaps you should try cross dressing first and explore from there!👍
 

Noidenous

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I haven’t ******* made any claims bar that many ancient cultures have recognised trans people in their populations, some were even celebrated, like in parts of Asia and in meso Indian cultures.
They make you feel icky don’t they?
Perhaps you should try cross dressing first and explore from there!👍

 

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Noidenous

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Oh fu**, you’re an imbecile.
These people are scum and so are you!🖕
Good to know you watched the discussion. You've, in essence, proven the observation discussed in the 2nd video as well as your inability to partake intellectually minus bad-faith.

Bigot.
 
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Noidenous

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You’re pathetic
I wouldn’t watch those uneducated illiterate, unscientific nobodies if you paid me, now unkindly fu** off.🖕
Hilarious. Do I get to trot out the old 'ad hom fallacy' magic killshot phrase now?

Dig yourself a deeper hole, you might be able to hide, eventually.
 
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Geelong_Sicko

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Ignoring biology so someone's feelings don't get hurt isn't common decency.

Common decency is allowing Stan to be Loretta because 'I wanna have babies'. Common sense is recognising that he cannot. And that's nobody's fault, not even the Romans.
But how many transgender really do think their biology will change with an operation? Most just want their exterior to match their interior, and will go to that length to try and achieve what to them is peace of mind. To me, there's no harm in it.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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I do wonder where you draw the line on being nice though. Do you pander to someone's mental illness? Or do you address it?
If people feel genuinely happier once their exterior selves match their inner selves why not just let them feel better about themselves in this way. To say "No, you cannot wear that dress, you're mentally ill. You cannot change your name, you're mentally ill. You cannot have that operation, you're mentally ill..." to people who are already in a slough of despair over their birth identity is going to take an even worse toll on them.

I cannot state this enough - there is no harm whatsoever in letting transgender people be who they want to be.

Transgender in sport and the fairness of competition - that's still a topic with a valid query over its solution but in general life? Let 'em be.
 

Noidenous

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If people feel genuinely happier once their exterior selves match their inner selves why not just let them feel better about themselves in this way. To say "No, you cannot wear that dress, you're mentally ill. You cannot change your name, you're mentally ill. You cannot have that operation, you're mentally ill..." to people who are already in a slough of despair over their birth identity is going to take an even worse toll on them.

I cannot state this enough - there is no harm whatsoever in letting transgender people be who they want to be.

Transgender in sport and the fairness of competition - that's still a topic with a valid query over its solution but in general life? Let 'em be.
Let them be until their delusion ends up with you behind bars or receiving fines for entirely arbitrary reasons.
 

chelseacarlton

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I hope you don't have kids, for their sake.
Happy healthy intelligent caring empathetic
They both fully understand gay and lesbian issues as many of our friends are gay and lesbian, both support the human rights of transgender folk.
They are active in the community and share the values of the liberal progressive movement, with no help from me or my partner.
You are a pathetic, right wing, bigoted, small minded, spiritless, dumb, humourless bore.
And that’s on your best day.
👏
 

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Noidenous

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Happy healthy intelligent caring empathetic
They both fully understand gay and lesbian issues as many of our friends are gay and lesbian, both support the human rights of transgender folk.
They are active in the community and share the values of the liberal progressive movement, with no help from me or my partner.
You are a pathetic, right wing, bigoted, small minded, spiritless, dumb, humourless bore.
And that’s on your best day.
👏
Again, the right wing label. Still waiting on a definition of 'conservative' and how it applies politically, socially and economically, by the way.

Do you have a B-side? This single's been played until the groove has worn out.

Could you please point me to any peer-reviewed evolutionary biology paper that supports an empirical basis for transgenderism, as supposedly removed from gender dysphoria? Only through this most holy proof-of-proofs could I possibly wash my soul clean of the heresy to social justice, repent and reform.
 
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chelseacarlton

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Again, the right wing label. Still waiting on a definition of 'conservative' and how it applies politically, socially and economically, by the way.

Do you have a B-side? This single's been played until the groove has worn out.

Could you please point me to any peer-reviewed evolutionary biology paper that supports an empirical basis for transgenderism, as supposedly removed from gender dysphoria? Only through this most holy proof-of-proofs could I possibly wash my soul clean of the heresy to social justice, repent and reform.
Utter jibberish
 

Scotland

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But how many transgender really do think their biology will change with an operation? Most just want their exterior to match their interior, and will go to that length to try and achieve what to them is peace of mind. To me, there's no harm in it.
That's just one scenario. Caitlyn Jenner was immediately accepted as a woman by some before any snippy snippy took place.

A journo in the UK who gave birth to a child applied to be listed as the child's father. Right, so who is the child's mother then? People who are born as one sex and transition are able to have their birth certificates altered to say otherwise. This stuff is dangerous. We shouldn't be giving people carte blanche to make up their own definitions and rules to suit how they feel about their identity.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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That's just one scenario. Caitlyn Jenner was immediately accepted as a woman by some before any snippy snippy took place.

A journo in the UK who gave birth to a child applied to be listed as the child's father. Right, so who is the child's mother then? People who are born as one sex and transition are able to have their birth certificates altered to say otherwise. This stuff is dangerous. We shouldn't be giving people carte blanche to make up their own definitions and rules to suit how they feel about their identity.
Yeah, I get you in those instances. And yes, there are biological truths here. Unless they scrap mother/father on the birth certificate altogether and just go with those contributing DNA as just 'parents' if you offer up semen to a child's conception, then as it stands now you are the father of that child. If you contribute an egg then, even if you don't carry that child to term (surrogacy) then you are listed as the child's mother.

I have no issue with them changing it to 'parent', as long as both contributors are recognised.
 

chelseacarlton

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Looks to me your lack of intellectual credentials are displayed after only scratching the surface.

What serious character defect are you trying to compensate for?
You’re flaws are on display for all, what have intellectual credentials got to do with anything in this discussion?
This is for real folks with big and little letters before and after their names not campaigners like you or that pissant Jordan Peterson.
This is between the child and parents and their health care professionals or the adult the professionals, not whiney little dropkicks like you!
The thin veneer of your intellect washed off during your baptism.
You truly believe this is something that warrants a nobody like yourself to have wave his maleficent wand over, as though you wield any power in the real world?
What a ******* joke you are, delusions of grandeur and adequacy!
You poor twisted little windbag.
This is my last post in here, the world will be better off without campaigners like you in it.
 
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Noidenous

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You’re flaws are on display for all, what have intellectual credentials got to do with anything in this discussion?
This is for real folks with big and little letters before and after their names not campaigners like you or that pissant Jordan Peterson.
This is between the child and parents and their health care professionals or the adult the professionals, not whiney little dropkicks like you!
The thin veneer of your intellect washed off during your baptism.
You truly believe this is something that warrants a nobody like yourself to have wave his maleficent wand over, as though you wield any power in the real world?
What a ******* joke you are, delusions of grandeur and adequacy!
You poor twisted little windbag.
This is my last post in here, the world will be better off without campaigners like you in it.
Oh so peaceful and empathetic. So learned and erudite.

Everything is the phantom 'right wing'. Congratulations, you have your red man with horns to crusade against, believer.
 

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Yeah, I get you in those instances. And yes, there are biological truths here. Unless they scrap mother/father on the birth certificate altogether and just go with those contributing DNA as just 'parents' if you offer up semen to a child's conception, then as it stands now you are the father of that child. If you contribute an egg then, even if you don't carry that child to term (surrogacy) then you are listed as the child's mother.

I have no issue with them changing it to 'parent', as long as both contributors are recognised.
Really it comes back to what do you want to call yourself compared to how you want others to accommodate you. If I decide that as of tomorrow I am a woman what does society owe me? Am I a woman because I say so? Can I use the ladies' at work if it makes female colleagues uncomfortable? I would call this walking pace stuff and we are already trying to run before having a consensus.

Society for a long time has divided people into male and female based on chromosomes and reproductive organs and that system still works fine for the majority of people. Some people don't fit neatly into a binary 1 or 0 category so there will always be a grey area. The problem is that in a short space of time we've invented 1,000 new genders, declared gender fluid and/or a social construct and a let a bizarre 'everyone gets to choose their own gender and subsequently their own rules, anyone who argues is transphobic' culture fester.

Regardless of your philosophical bent on parenting, a child has a biological mother and father. Friends of mine are doing the RCD thing and the identity of the father isn't public knowledge - which is fine and none of my business. But no matter how you spin it the child still came of one of them and shares no DNA with the other. Doesn't mean they don't play an equal role in raising the kid, but a birth certificate is just that - a record of birth. Plenty of people are raised by non biological parents/guardians but if that record is available it is still important. If there is a medical emergency the doctors are going to want to know who the child's mother/father are and their medical histories.
 

Dogs_R_Us

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Really it comes back to what do you want to call yourself compared to how you want others to accommodate you. If I decide that as of tomorrow I am a woman what does society owe me? Am I a woman because I say so? Can I use the ladies' at work if it makes female colleagues uncomfortable? I would call this walking pace stuff and we are already trying to run before having a consensus.

Society for a long time has divided people into male and female based on chromosomes and reproductive organs and that system still works fine for the majority of people. Some people don't fit neatly into a binary 1 or 0 category so there will always be a grey area. The problem is that in a short space of time we've invented 1,000 new genders, declared gender fluid and/or a social construct and a let a bizarre 'everyone gets to choose their own gender and subsequently their own rules, anyone who argues is transphobic' culture fester.

Regardless of your philosophical bent on parenting, a child has a biological mother and father. Friends of mine are doing the RCD thing and the identity of the father isn't public knowledge - which is fine and none of my business. But no matter how you spin it the child still came of one of them and shares no DNA with the other. Doesn't mean they don't play an equal role in raising the kid, but a birth certificate is just that - a record of birth. Plenty of people are raised by non biological parents/guardians but if that record is available it is still important. If there is a medical emergency the doctors are going to want to know who the child's mother/father are and their medical histories.
And eventually the child is going to want to know the circumstances of his/her birth. The stories of adopted children seeking their birth parents are legion. They want to know where they fit into the world and if they were wanted and why they weren’t acknowledged.

Plus genetic traits should be traceable where possible, to investigate health issues and prevent them being passed on in certain circumstances.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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Definitely there are some good points you raise, Scotland and Dogs_R_Us. Adopted kids deserve to know the circumstance of their birth and genetic problems/abnormalities/ilnesses need to be traced through both DNA contributors of a child. But I think that can still happen regardless of what either parent identifies as so long as the DNA lineage is traceable.

Really it comes back to what do you want to call yourself compared to how you want others to accommodate you. If I decide that as of tomorrow I am a woman what does society owe me?
I think society would owe you enough respect to address you without derision based on your identity.

Am I a woman because I say so? Can I use the ladies' at work if it makes female colleagues uncomfortable?
I think as awareness grows these things will fade. I realise the problem is the short, sharp shock of the here-and-now as you note;

Society for a long time has divided people into male and female based on chromosomes and reproductive organs and that system still works fine for the majority of people. Some people don't fit neatly into a binary 1 or 0 category so there will always be a grey area. The problem is that in a short space of time we've invented 1,000 new genders, declared gender fluid and/or a social construct and a let a bizarre 'everyone gets to choose their own gender and subsequently their own rules, anyone who argues is transphobic' culture fester.
but that's all it really is - something to get used to. Mr and Mrs and Miss, as gender-specific terms, originated from Master and Mistress, words that fell out of favour and became archaic. Only the female form had to instantly divulge marital status while Mr remained perfectly noncommittal.

The noncommittal female form Ms didn't come along for a very long time. People had to get used to that. Social ettiquette and tolerances changed, because they had to. The world was moving on.

This is just one more thing. One more change to get used to.

You did something to offend them (entirely subjective, should never be admissable in court) and their protected status.
Its a fair point actually. In getting used to any new way of doing things, mistakes will be made. Toes will get stepped on. As a society I'd hope we retain the common sense to know what was said in error, what may have been said in good-natured jest, and see it as different to what might be said with actual malice.

As a society we're still finding our way. We'll get there one day.
 
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