Transgender

[Gralin]

Discussion continuing in Part 2 found here

Transgender - Part 2

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Yeah, just like all those right wing Scandinavians, and those reactionary nutters at the Karolinska. Quite simply it appears there is genuine concern about the lack of data. Expect more to follow.

If they're worried about the lack of data, wouldn't a lack of people on puberty blockers only lead to a greater absence of data? You need a pool of users to actually study before that study data becomes available.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Karolinska Institutet. “I am surprised by the shortage of studies in this field. We found no randomized trials, and only 24 relevant observational studies,” he adds.

The review concluded that the long-term effects of hormone therapy on psychosocial health could not be evaluated due to lack of studies with sufficient quality."

Are you seriously telling us that the Swedish authors of that review are motivated by conservative politics?

Research Group A "We haven't done enough studies"
Research Group B "There are no more studies to study"
Federal Body "We can't approve this because of a lack of research"

Sounds like the research that SHOULD be going on isn't going on.

 

[mcnulty]

If they're worried about the lack of data, wouldn't a lack of people on puberty blockers only lead to a greater absence of data? You need a pool of users to actually study before that study data becomes available.

Thats not how it works. Studies allow for data to be assessed in a controlled way before to determine safety and effectiveness, before released to the public at large. We don’t just release stuff without applying the proper protocols.

There seems to be a growing concern a few steps have been skipped with these drugs.

 

[mcnulty]

Research Group A "We haven't done enough studies"
Research Group B "There are no more studies to study"
Federal Body "We can't approve this because of a lack of research"

Sounds like the research that SHOULD be going on isn't going on.

No, they are suggesting more studies be done. That the drugs should be only used in the context of clinical trials at this stage, where strict protocols are in place (selection criteria, informed consent etc).

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Thats not how it works. Studies allow for data to be assessed in a controlled way before to determine safety and effectiveness, before released to the public at large. We don’t just release stuff without applying the proper protocols.

There seems to be a growing concern a few steps have been skipped with these drugs.

Yeah fair enough. If steps are being skipped or rushed then that's no good. I was wondering if maybe they were stuck in the old 'can't continue without research yet can't research without continuing' research and development loop.

 

[Nickoo]

There's a certain irony in the catch-cry of religious types being 'protect the children' when organised religion is the biggest threat to the safety of children...

Paedophiles are the biggest threat to children followed by parents, then gender affirmative practices that coerce distressed children down a particular path. Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism etc themselves are no harm at all but the wolves in sheep’s clothing are as the old fairytales go.

Cue the outrage.


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[kirsti]

Paedophiles are the biggest threat to children followed by parents, then gender affirmative practices that coerce distressed children down a particular path. Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism etc themselves are no harm at all but the wolves in sheep’s clothing are as the old fairytales go.

Cue the outrage.


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There has only been one royal commission that found the churches and not endocrine specialists systematically sexually abused children in their care and covered the abuse up for decades.


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[faible]

Paedophiles are the biggest threat to children followed by parents, then gender affirmative practices that coerce distressed children down a particular path. Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism etc themselves are no harm at all but the wolves in sheep’s clothing are as the old fairytales go.

Cue the outrage.


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Looks a lot like you’re outraged to me.

 

[Gethelred]

Paedophiles are the biggest threat to children followed by parents, then gender affirmative practices that coerce distressed children down a particular path. Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism etc themselves are no harm at all but the wolves in sheep’s clothing are as the old fairytales go.

Cue the outrage.


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This'd be infractable if it wasn't so stupid.

 

[Chief]

Cue the outrage.

You must be right if "teh leftists" disagree with you, yeah?

 

[Chief]

This'd be infractable if it wasn't so stupid.

SAVE DUH CHILDRIN!

 

[Bloods86]

Paedophiles are the biggest threat to children followed by parents, then gender affirmative practices that coerce distressed children down a particular path. Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism etc themselves are no harm at all but the wolves in sheep’s clothing are as the old fairytales go.

Cue the outrage.


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Nothing harmful about instilling a guilt complex, repressive thinking, or a distrust of science. Ok then.

 

[Gralin]

Yes famous advocate for fairness in sport Lance Armstrong.



Why were you cancelled Lance?

 

[faible]

Yes famous advocate for fairness in sport Lance Armstrong.



Why were you cancelled Lance?

Poor Lance unwittingly forced to dope, cover it up, and sue anyone that might speak out about it.

 

[Gralin]

Poor Lance unwittingly forced to dope, cover it up, and sue anyone that might speak out about it.

yeah when he starts his series of tweets with I know what its like to be cancelled for no reason and then goes on to say he's really invested in fairness in sport.

Well it kind of comes off like he's trying to hitch himself to a cause he thinks will make him some money.

Which to be fair isn't stupid on his part as there is money to be made and we've seen that the people attending rallies are happy to pose for photos with actual nazis so a guy banned for doping wouldn't phase them at all you'd think.

Now outside those down the rabbit hole in the movement, I can't see him being a good spokesperson when they're pushing fairness in sport as the reason

 

[Number37]

yeah when he starts his series of tweets with I know what its like to be cancelled for no reason and then goes on to say he's really invested in fairness in sport.

Well it kind of comes off like he's trying to hitch himself to a cause he thinks will make him some money.

Which to be fair isn't stupid on his part as there is money to be made and we've seen that the people attending rallies are happy to pose for photos with actual nazis so a guy banned for doping wouldn't phase them at all you'd think.

Now outside those down the rabbit hole in the movement, I can't see him being a good spokesperson when they're pushing fairness in sport as the reason

 

[kirsti]

If there was an advantage in transitioning to a woman in sports, Lance would have become Lisa years ago:


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[The Tilt]

Why Europe and America are going in opposite directions on youth transgender medicine

Europeans are following principles of evidence-based medicine, while Americans are not.

thehill.com

 

[gouki88]

Why Europe and America are going in opposite directions on youth transgender medicine

Europeans are following principles of evidence-based medicine, while Americans are not.

thehill.com

Ah yes, the US is the beacon of trans acceptance after all

 

[Seeds]

Ah yes, the US is the beacon of trans acceptance after all

Well yes. Them and the uk. what regions do you think are more accepting then them?

 

[Seeds]

Why Europe and America are going in opposite directions on youth transgender medicine

Europeans are following principles of evidence-based medicine, while Americans are not.

thehill.com

the points in this article need a thread of their own as its beyond just a transgender issue. anti science attitudes are emerging in the new left when it does not suite their political goals.


"Because U.S. medical groups don’t always use EBM, their conclusions can be based on studies whose fatal flaws are overlooked or ignored. Consider, as an example, a study done at Seattle Children’s Hospital and published last year. The study’s authors reported that use of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones was associated with 60 percent lower odds of depression and 73 percent lower odds of suicidality. Leading mainstream publications, including Scientific American and Psychology Today, celebrated the findings. More recently, major U.S. medical associations cited the study in federal court proceedings.

But a careful look at the study’s data shows that the kids who received hormonal interventions did no better by the end of the study than at the beginning. The researchers’ claim about improvement was based on the fact that the kids in the control group, who received psychotherapy but not hormones, got worse relative to the hormone group. But even this isn’t accurate, as 80 percent of the control group dropped out by the end of the study, and a likely reason for this dramatic loss to follow-up is that many or perhaps all of the non-hormone-treated kids improved without “gender-affirming” drugs. It’s quite possible that if the researchers had followed up with all the participants, we’d see this study become Exhibit A in the case against pediatric sex changes."

"True science denialism means restricting rational, evidence-based debate — exactly what McNamara and the AMA’s new president want to do. Their calls are bearing fruit. Just this month, gender activists successfully pressured a medical journal to retract a paper whose conclusions they found inconvenient. The ongoing campaign to suppress scientific debate allows a pseudo-consensus to emerge around gender-affirming care.”

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Well yes. Them and the uk. what regions do you think are more accepting than them?

Thailand, Brazil.

Any more silly questions?

 

[Chief]

It’s quite possible that if the researchers had followed up with all the participants, we’d see this study become Exhibit A in the case against pediatric sex changes.

Unfounded hyperbole is so sciencey! I mean, it's like there's someone in a lab coat in the room with me.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

No, they are suggesting more studies be done. That the drugs should be only used in the context of clinical trials at this stage, where strict protocols are in place (selection criteria, informed consent etc).

I've been thinking, McNulty. There's another area of medical treatment that uses puberty blockers in treatments. It's been in use for decades. There's a condition called 'precocious puberty', basically early-onset puberty in children below the age of 9.

Precocious Early Puberty | Boston Children's Hospital

<p>Precocious, or early, puberty is when a child enters the process of becoming sexually mature too early. Learn more from Boston Children's Hospital.</p>

www.childrenshospital.org

Q: What causes precocious puberty?
A: In girls, in 90 to 95 percent of cases, the cause of precocious puberty is idiopathic, or unknown, meaning doctors don’t know for certain why it happens. An underlying cause is usually found in boys.

Q: How is precocious puberty treated?
A: The goal of treatment for precocious puberty is to stop, and possibly reverse, the onset of puberty. Treatment will also depend on the type of precocious puberty your child has and the underlying cause, if known.

When treating central precocious puberty at Children’s Hospital Boston, we often use synthetic luteinizing-hormone-releasing hormone (LHRH). This hormone appears to stop sexual maturation brought on by the disorder by stopping the pituitary gland from releasing gonadotropin.

Treatment of peripheral precocious puberty depends on the cause for the increase in estrogen or testosterone levels in the body.

Q: How will precocious puberty affect my child?
A: In addition to showing physical signs of early puberty, children with precocious puberty often have low self-esteem linked to the feeling of being different than their peers. Other people, including children and adults, may assume children with precocious puberty are older than they actually are and may expect them to behave beyond their maturity level. Encouraging your child to be open about her feelings will help immensely.

Q: Will my child be OK?
A: There’s every reason to be optimistic. With proper treatment and care, most children with precocious puberty will ultimately experience a normal and happy adolescence.

Even though the treatment for one is temporary as opposed to treatment for the other which must be life-long as I understand it I notice there is little to no furor from conservatives about giving precocious kids blockers as opposed to the far more rigorous debate over transgender kids being offered those same treatments.

Medical ethics are one thing. Ethics and personal morality are another.

 

[Seeds]

Thailand, Brazil.

Any more silly questions?

I think you will find there is a lot of discrimination in thailand. More so then in the west. Brazil i dont know. But hard to see how a country that was ruled by bolsanaro for much of the past 5 years was strong on transgender rights. But you might be right.