Transgender

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Aug 12, 2012
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Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.
 
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medusala

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I accept there is a physical difference between men and women. Sexual diamporphism, chromosomal, reproductive organs etc

While similar, race and gender are still different. I think conflating the two is disingenuous.

Race??

Gender is now a social construct?

Cheers for the Friday humour :)
 

medusala

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He's talking about gender as a social construct.

But just referred to physical differences.

anyway, relevant article below re the UK. Seeing quite a bit of this sort of thing lately in the press

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/...g-bomb-threats/#click=https://t.co/vRhc0dHmws

Why are women who discuss gender getting bomb threats?

What does it say about how strongly the women at that meeting last night feel about this issue that they went along despite such a threat? It’s not as if this was a one-off either: as Judith Green of WPUK wrote here earlier this year, Woman’s Place meetings are frequently the subject of aggressive protests from people who say they are representing transgender people. Yet women turn up anyway, in large numbers. And what does it say about public and political debate about gender issues that this stuff has become normal and almost unremarkable?

 
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But just referred to physical differences.

anyway, relevant article below re the UK. Seeing quite a bit of this sort of thing lately in the press

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/...g-bomb-threats/#click=https://t.co/vRhc0dHmws

Why are women who discuss gender getting bomb threats?

What does it say about how strongly the women at that meeting last night feel about this issue that they went along despite such a threat? It’s not as if this was a one-off either: as Judith Green of WPUK wrote here earlier this year, Woman’s Place meetings are frequently the subject of aggressive protests from people who say they are representing transgender people. Yet women turn up anyway, in large numbers. And what does it say about public and political debate about gender issues that this stuff has become normal and almost unremarkable?
That's quite a pivot.

You've linked to an article asking a question. Do you have an answer?
 

kirsti

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My personal experience was I was born with a male body but for some reason I can never remember feeling comfortable in my body. These feelings never diminished when puberty hit my distress in living with the male body I had got worse with each year.

I have undergone gender confirmation surgery, facial feminisation surgery and breast augmentation surgery. I met all the criteria to legally change my birth certificate to female in 2006 and was issued with a Nsw Female birth certificate that year.

I have never considered myself a biological born female that would be impossible for me to do.
 
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My personal experience was I was born with a male body but for some reason I can never remember feeling comfortable in my body. These feelings never diminished when puberty hit my distress in living with the male body I had got worse with each year.

I have undergone gender confirmation surgery, facial feminisation surgery and breast augmentation surgery. I met all the criteria to legally change my birth certificate to female in 2006 and was issued with a Nsw Female birth certificate that year.

I have never considered myself a biological born female that would be impossible for me to do.
Are you of the belief that there will be a medical/biological discovery that identifies where transgenderism comes from? Or do you think it is a psychological phenomenon?
 
Are you of the belief that there will be a medical/biological discovery that identifies where transgenderism comes from? Or do you think it is a psychological phenomenon?
I can't speak for Kirsti nor would I wish to but I see transgenderism as being somewhat like homosexuality. It's an identifiable part of human nature for some that can't really be explained.
 
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I can't speak for Kirsti nor would I wish to but I see transgenderism as being somewhat like homosexuality. It's an identifiable part of human nature for some that can't really be explained.
Sounds very religious! :D

I think there has to be something behind it. These things happen for a reason - we just don't know why. Not that it's particularly important to know why. It's only out of curiosity I ask.
 
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I can't speak for Kirsti nor would I wish to but I see transgenderism as being somewhat like homosexuality. It's an identifiable part of human nature for some that can't really be explained.

Respectfully, it's a little bit more than that.
 

Baby Duck

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Sounds very religious! :D

I think there has to be something behind it. These things happen for a reason - we just don't know why. Not that it's particularly important to know why. It's only out of curiosity I ask.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A

"In commercial use since 1957"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4113893/

Women wanting to be men and being encouraged to be more assertive and strong, and to dominate men. Men wanting to be women, and being encouraged to be submissive and weak, and to subservient to women. We see all this reinforced in movies with the rise of the awkward, sensitive and weak male lead actors and the domineering, aggressive and intolerant female actors. All this coupled with hormones and hormonal mimicing chemicals being placed into our environments and the food we eat is the cause of the wacky gender bending phenomenon.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Brunswick Trap King

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In light of that, isn't it inconsistent when everyone welcomed Bruce Jenner's transition but condemned Dolezal?
Yes. I think if Dolezal was an African who saw herself as a Desi then no one would care.

The fact that she's white and trying to claim she's from an oppressed minority group leads to accusations of cultural misappropriation.

That's why you're getting bizarrely inconsistent replies because nobody wants to address that her being 'secretly' caucasian is the biggest issue.
 
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Interesting conundrum to place her in the hierarchy of oppression. +5 points for being female, -3 for being white, +5 for being trans (for the sake of argument), -4 points for cultural appropriation.... I have her on a total of +3, which only places her slightly above a gay white male with a mild disability. Normally would expect higher.
 
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A pay cut.

In all sincerity, if the AFL said no to Mouncey, they will never say yes to a former AFL player

Hannah Mouncey is playing in the VFLW, though.

If an AFL player announced tomorrow that 'I want to be a woman. From now on I want you to call me Loretta' could they feature in the 2019 or 2020 VFLW season?
 

Brunswick Trap King

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Hannah Mouncey is playing in the VFLW, though.

If an AFL player announced tomorrow that 'I want to be a woman. From now on I want you to call me Loretta' could they feature in the 2019 or 2020 VFLW season?
It's interesting because the AFLW has a lower bar of entry than the Olympics but it seems they reserve the right of veto.
 

kirsti

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What would it take for a current AFL player to play in the AFLW?


Buddy Franklin could legally be playing in the AFLW in 18 months time or compete as a woman at the 2020 Olympic Games.

Buddy would not have to have any surgery.

Buddy would need to take medication to lower his testosterone levels to 10nmols at least one year prior to his first game or competition as a woman.

Finally Buddy would have to sign an agreement to compete as a woman for a minimum of 5 years, although his birth certificate can remain unchanged as a male.

That is the current policy adopted by the IOC and AFLW

The first trans inclusion policy was developed way back in 2003 prior to the Athens Games, no trans athlete has won a medal under the old IOC policy.

I fear the new trans inclusion policies adopted by both the IOC/AFL has tipped the balance of fairness in favour of trans athletes.

I am all for the maximum participation of my community the trans community participating in sport but equally important the integrity of female sport must be maintained. I suggest the integrity of women’s sport has been compromised if Buddy Franklin could be playing in the AFLW in 18 months time.
 

kirsti

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It's interesting because the AFLW has a lower bar of entry than the Olympics but it seems they reserve the right of veto.
The AFL has followed the IOC guidelines since 2010.

The AFLW utilitied Victorian anti discrimination laws to exclude Hannah from entering the AFLW Draft last year. Also the current IOC guidelines of 10 nmols is a minimum requirement to meet sports can extend the 12 months timeframe if concerns with minimising the advantage in women’s competition exists.
 

Brunswick Trap King

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The AFL has followed the IOC guidelines since 2010.

The AFLW utilitied Victorian anti discrimination laws to exclude Hannah from entering the AFLW Draft last year. Also the current IOC guidelines of 10 nmols is a minimum requirement to meet sports can extend the 12 months timeframe if concerns with minimising the advantage in women’s competition exists.
Thanks kirsti, I was gonna tag you to make sure I was right but felt like it was lazy given you've answered it innumerable times.
 
Yes. I think if Dolezal was an African who saw herself as a Desi then no one would care.

The fact that she's white and trying to claim she's from an oppressed minority group leads to accusations of cultural misappropriation.

That's why you're getting bizarrely inconsistent replies because nobody wants to address that her being 'secretly' caucasian is the biggest issue.
Women are very accommodating when those coming from the powerful group choose to live as the oppressed.

It's because we don't place as much of our identity in it. Ethnic groups, particularly ethic teenagers, really lean into their differences because it makes them special in a world where nobody matters
 
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