Transgender

Gough

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Not unless you want to re-introduce 'Negro leagues' like it's the 1920s.

Serena Willliams is a woman that is physically stronger than most women. It's a big advantage but we're not about to start banning players from the NBA for being tall.

How do you reckon Serena Williams would go against Rafaella Nadal?
Renee Richards played in the 1976 US Open as a transgender woman. She made the third round.
 

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Leeda

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Should we just abolish women’s sports and have an open field?
now there we go.. I have a problem with males turning and playing as females.. it is a physiological thing.. surely that is obvious and
I don't absolve from this.. this is my only problem and I can't resolve that there can be an equality with this.. leave it with you..

but it makes sense.. to have a certain restriction.. it is not bias but common undubious sense..
 

Geelong_Sicko

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Should we just abolish women’s sports and have an open field?
In all honesty it wouldn't phase me. I'd still barrack for the Cats if they became a mixed-gender team. I know there's all kinds of questions over player safety in contact sports (the tragic loss of Maggie Varcoe from an accidental head clash illustrates how badly things can go, and that was a woman-on-woman collision) but me as a spectator?

I honseltly can't muster up enough objection to say 'no'.
 

Scotland

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If the AFL incorporated the AFLW then there would still be 100% male players in it. If the teams were mixed gender it would be because the rules were like mixed doubles or social netball where you need a minimum number of female players. No one would watch AFLMW, or AFLMW+NB.

There's very few sports where women can compete with men (gymnastics, excepting they don't do identical events, equestrian...). It's the whole reason sports are segregated after about primary school age.
 

Balls In

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There's very few sports where women can compete with men (gymnastics, excepting they don't do identical events, equestrian...). It's the whole reason sports are segregated after about primary school age.
I dont see men and women as being in competition. Womens sport is not of a particularly high standard but men cant give birth. Why this demand to enforce some sort of fake "equality" when its physiologically impossible is beyond me.
 
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Scotland

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I dont see men and women as being in competition. Womens sport is not of a particularly high a quality but men cant give birth.
In all sports bar equestrian they aren't. I'll leave the 'we're just as good, we deserve to be paid like the men' stuff for the 95 other threads on that. Women don't play in the AFL for the same reasons U/12s don't - they're not at the same level of ability or physical strength.

The only real reason there is an issue with transgender athletes is that biological men want to compete in women's sport. Is there huge resistance to transgender athletes competing in men's sport? There's men, women and a spectrum of people in between. It's not really fair to let anyone who doesn't identify as a man compete as a woman.

Bruce Jenner won Olympic Gold in the decathlon at the Olympic Games then came out as a transgender woman at age 65 or whatever it was. From Wiki: 'in April 2015, Jenner came out as a trans woman, saying that she had dealt with gender dysphoria since her youth and that, "for all intents and purposes, I'm a woman." '.

Granted Caitlyn Jenner probably isn't going to try out for Tokyo 2020 at age 70 but if this transition came in the 1970s there would have been a shit storm. A male Olympic gold medalist could conceivably compete as a man, transition then compete as a woman 4 years later. That's nuts, if you'll pardon the pun.
 

kickazz

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Should we just abolish women’s sports and have an open field?
No.

I get your point, why should gender have a special category compared to say height or a myriad of other genetic factors that exclude people basically from birth?

The answer is it will never be 100% "fair" in that kind of sense. Sure, there are over 40s leagues, I've heard of under 6 foot leagues in basketball. If a particular group can make it happen, great. But they shouldn't be stopped because some other group can't make it happen for them.

That may sound like justification for bringing back "negro leagues" or introducing "whites only athletics" and "blacks only swimming". If such a categorisation can be shown to be genetically disadvantaged, how is it any different to the genetic disadvantage that women have? Why is gender apartheid okay in sport, but racial apartheid is not?

I guess it comes down to pragmatism and what segregation society finds acceptable enough to promote inclusion over exclusion.
Women will never be able to compete at the very top level with men at most sports. It's more absolute. I think with other genetic factors, the disadvantage can be overcome.


Shit who knows, one day in the far future the Olympics for example might be like the Sydney to Hobart. Line honours for the best, regardless of anything else; and a handicap winner determined by a complex algorithm taking into account every ******* gene in our genome.
 

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kickazz

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Were Negro leagues founded due to black people being as superior at sport, or because of the opposite - they were excluded from sport because they were seen as fundamentally inferior?
Yeah probably not a good example on my part (the swimming and athletics ones were better)

I suspect the reasons the negro leagues were set up had little to do with sporting ability, and more to do with issues of racial integration more broadly.
 

Tayl0r

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Should we just abolish women’s sports and have an open field?
No no. The men's league is the open league.

The women's league has already had a regulation put on it to allow women, who are overwhelmingly inferior athletically, to compete on a playing field set at women's level. It literally has been created to restrict access to those who possess a natural advantage to allow the women to compete against each other.
 

Scotland

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Yeah probably not a good example on my part (the swimming and athletics ones were better)

I suspect the reasons the negro leagues were set up had little to do with sporting ability, and more to do with issues of racial integration more broadly.
Yeah they existed in a different time of racial segregation. Can't really have a team environment with blacks and whites playing together then separating on the team bus - what kind of sick dynamic would that be? There was probably an element of not wanting to allow black players into the major leagues because people recognised their potential and felt threatened, though.

I can't imagine a 'white' NBA. The game as people know it now is made for height and athleticism and dominated by African Americans who are ~200cm and have insane athleticism. Different game when the majority of players can play above the rim.
 

Scotland

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No no. The men's league is the open league.

The women's league has already had a regulation put on it to allow women, who are overwhelmingly inferior athletically, to compete on a playing field set at women's level. It literally has been created to restrict access to those who possess a natural advantage to allow the women to compete against each other.
Yep. It's silly when people say 'men's' cricket or talk about the 'men's' side of an AFL club. It's not the Weld Club.

If there was a female player good enough to play test cricket or for the Socceroos or for an AFL club etc. then I would encourage them to challenge any rule in place that denies their selection.

But it's completely hypothetical because there is a chasm in standard between the elite levels by gender. The best player in the AFLW might compete in C grade amateurs? Even then you are talking about a comp that will have blokes that are pushing 100kg.
 

Tayl0r

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I don't think it's the athletes, I think society doesn't want to see the likes of Nathan Fyfe smashing Dana Hooker into the grass.

But they absolutely do want to see Ebony Antonio taking a hanger on top of Sandilands' head.
 

woota

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Anyone here have any thoughts on whether transgenderism is a physiological condition, or a psychological one? For example, is their conviction that they are a woman trapped in a male body (or vice versa) due to their brain being physiologically different from their biological sex (essentially meaning they have a "female brain" in a male body, for example). Or is the cause environmental, like there's something that has gone awry in their development/upbringing that causes a distortion in their self perception that allows a person to naturally identify with their biological sex. This is the thing that fascinates me the most, and is at the core of whether it's a mental illness or not.
 
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sorted

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I think a highschool football team would smash the AFLW All Australian side.
Same as in soccer. Any decent boys U14s team would beat the Matildas. Yet the women in the W League get paid a few thousand and are sponsored, whereas the boy's parents have to find regos fees and buy their own boots.
 
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