Transgender

[ShanDog]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[its free real estate]

I presume in your hypothetical, the 'rape crisis centre' is for the female gender (as opposed to biological sex) only.

Does the individual genuinely self identify as a woman? The answer to that question is self evident in 99.99999999999999999999999 percent of cases.

It's a question of context, like everything else in the universe.

Not a hypothetical

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2...ty-cuts-funding-to-vancouver-rape-relief.html

 

[Socrates2]

its free real estate has a point mate. Calm down.

Dont let people on the internet trigger you. It's exactly what they want.

I'm leaving these society/ religion threads for a while as there is no way of having a proper discussion. I make no apology for calling out Islamophobia, Transphobia and other fake & misleading right wing so called 'news'.Doesn't this contravene bigfooty rules? Are any of the mods going to pull these blokes up?

 

[Socrates2]

Not a hypothetical

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2...ty-cuts-funding-to-vancouver-rape-relief.html

So you found one article that suits your beliefs , what about the other 50,000 rape centers that don't have this rule? This thread should not be used to spread transphobia.

 

[Malifice]

I'm leaving these society/ religion threads for a while as there is no way of having a proper discussion.

The presence of right wing nutters like its free real estate doesnt mean there is no room for discussion. It's quite the opposite.

Just do what I do and demonstrate the falsity of his claims with reasoned debate.

Yes, Im aware of what he's trying to do (cloaked s**t posting and attempting to soften people up to much more extreme ideas). Im not an idiot.

I make no apology for calling out Islamophobia, Transphobia and other fake & misleading right wing so called 'news'.

So do I.

But it's one thing to call it out as false. The next step is demonstrating why it's wrong with reasoned debate.

Doesn't this contravene bigfooty rules? Are any of the mods going to pull these blokes up?

Conservative POV's dont contravene the rules in and of themselves. When it crosses the line from reasoned debate and criticism into bigotry it does.

its free real estate knows where the line is, and generally speaking he goes right up to it, without crossing it (there have been exceptions). His other avatars/ incarnations havent been so lucky. His method is to use subtle approval of Nazi germany, ethnic nationalism, and appeals to scientific racism, xenophobia and similar to attempt to lure people into much more extreme views (that he himself holds, but is too smart to post openly, knowing full well what would happen if he did so).

I know what he's up to, and I'm keeping a close eye on it. It's only a matter of time.

Until then, simply prove he's wrong with reasoned debate. If he crosses the line, I'll be the first to let him know.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I'm leaving these society/ religion threads for a while as there is no way of having a proper discussion.

You'd probably have a better conversation muttering to yourself, at least you'd know what you were talking about.

Bye.

 

[Socrates2]

You'd probably have a better conversation muttering to yourself, at least you'd know what you were talking about.

Bye.

I might stay now.I thought you were the guys in the echo chamber?

 

[Malifice]

Not a hypothetical

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2...ty-cuts-funding-to-vancouver-rape-relief.html

And I disagree with what that centre was doing, as does the State funder.

 

[Malifice]

I might stay now.

Dont get triggered mate. It's literally what they want you to do.

Breathe, and prove these clowns wrong with reasoned debate.

 

[skilts]

Gender is a reflection of our brains architecture. It is immutable and nobody is confused about their own gender. Every adult transgender person in the world is evidence of this.

Despite everyone, everything, everywhere telling them all through childhood and beyond that they were the gender they were assigned at birth, trans folk remain fixed in their gender. Despite all of the hardships, all the losses and difficulty a trans person will remain resolute.

This is because nothing can change our gender and to be forced to live in the wrong gender and for many trans folk, to have bodily features which don't conform to their gender is an ongoing source of extreme suffering.

If somebody had forced a "sex change" upon you in your childhood or teen years, you would never have stopped fighting to regain your identity and a body which reflected your true gender identity. You know this would be a fact.

The World Health Organisation, hundreds of medical researchers, all the world's major children's hospitals and psychology bodies, etc who all concur that gender is natal and trans kids should be affirmed and supported.

I watched the segment from the Project recently, It was very clear that @ScottMorrisonMP's position is not "let kids be kids". It's "let kids be who their parents force them to be". It's shameful that our politicians are lagging so far behind science and world's best practice.

Kids don't take any hormones until they're around 16 years of age. This follows a period of years on puberty blocking hormones and is all carried out under stringent clinical control and observation based on robust science and decades of clinical experience.


Here's how it works for you people: "You're too young to know your gender when you're a child" . . . "You're too young for blockers when you hit puberty" . . . "You're too young for cross hormones at 16" . . . "You're too young for gender confirmation surgery at 18" .. . . Then in adulthood "Face facts, you're a man, not a woman, if you were transgender you would have said something when you were younger". The truth is that people who hold your point of view never want transgender people to live their gender truth.

The American Psychological Association defines gender identity as, “A person’s deeply-felt, inherent sense of being a boy, a man, or a male; a girl, a woman, or a female; or an alternative gender (e.g., genderqueer, gender nonconforming, gender neutral) that may or may not correspond to a person’s sex assigned at birth or to a person’s primary or secondary sex characteristics” (American Psychological Association, Am Psychol 70(9):832–864, 2015). Here we review the evidence that gender identity and related socially defined gender constructs are influenced in part by innate factors including genes. Based on the data reviewed, we hypothesize that gender identity is a multifactorial complex trait with a heritable polygenic component. We argue that increasing the awareness of the biological diversity underlying gender identity development is relevant to all domains of social, medical, and neuroscience research and foundational for reducing health disparities and promoting human-rights protections for gender minorities.




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's such a pity you aren't better informed about this issue. Only jarkin'.

It bemuses me that so many posts in this thread have as their initial premise that sport is somehow of vital importance. It's not.

What is of importance is what people like Kirsti have had to endure because others think they know better than she does what's best for her. This is important. It is about the real world.

 

[Taylor]

Unfortunately, risking having your fundamental explanations for being challenged is a requirement for entering adult discussion.

We don't need it to be but the result if those discussions ends up being some degree of compromise which doesn't work with fields like science.

 

[skilts]

No not directed at you soz, you are awesome X


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

There are many on here who are a lot worse.

 

[Taylor]

It's also important to mention that human beings are exceptionally good at taking the reality of their circumstance and backdating their conscious choices to reflect it as a means of rationalisation to themselves.

It's a control thing in a world with very little of it.

 

[Mofra]

Accusing someone of being full of hate is easier than putting your brain into gear.

How do we tell the difference between transgender women and men?

I'd strongly suggest avoiding Thailand as a holiday destination...

 

[Malifice]

We don't need it to be but the result if those discussions ends up being some degree of compromise which doesn't work with fields like science.

I find even science gets discredited here pretty quickly when the consensus doesnt match your own world view.

Climate change, racism, evolution, the works.

I also tend to find it's almost always the right wingers that seem to have an issue with science.

If someone is going to hold their ground despite overwhelming scientific consenus being against them, or embark on pseudo science or historical revisionism/ absurdism (the Holocaust didnt happen, the Nazis are 'left wing', biological race exists etc) or accept some absurd consipracy (the Jews are behind it, its all a false flag, Qanon, White replacement etc) it's invariably those on the far right.

 

[Malifice]

I'd strongly suggest avoiding Thailand as a holiday destination...

That's precisely why my old man goes there.

He then posts about it on facebook. With pictures.

Thanks Dad.

 

[Taylor]

I find even science gets discredited here pretty quickly when the consensus doesnt match your own world view.

Climate change, racism, evolution, the works.

I also tend to find it's almost always the right wingers that seem to have an issue with science.

If someone is going to hold their ground despite overwhelming scientific consenus being against them, or embark on pseudo science or historical revisionism/ absurdism (the Holocaust didnt happen, the Nazis are 'left wing', biological race exists etc) it's invariably those on the far right.

I don't think either side is covered in glory when the left simultaneously purports that there is a male and female brain, gender is a social construct and men and women are the same.

 

[Mofra]

I don't think either side is covered in glory when the left simultaneously purports that there is a male and female brain, gender is a social construct and men and women are the same.

I'd suggest it's far easier to tell if someone from the left is the lunatic far-left fringe or not - just ask their opinion on vaccines.

 

[Malifice]

I don't think either side is covered in glory when the left simultaneously purports that there is a male and female brain, gender is a social construct and men and women are the same.

Im of the view that biological sex is objectively determined (i.e. you're born a man or a woman, with some outliers such as hermaphrodites and similar) gender roles and gender specifically are socially constructed.

Women werent forbidden to vote, due to biology. Tayah Harris didnt cop s**t over her photo due to biology. Women being relegated to **** and instagram isnt a function of biology. The patriarchy that exists in Conservative thought (including Islam, which is a conservative religious ideology) and reactionary thought isnt due to biology.

Gender is socially constructed, as are gender roles. Biological sex is not.

I suppose within that paradigm there is some room to discuss 'when is a woman a woman' and so forth. I get that.

I have issues when people try and deny the existence of the above paradigm.

 

[its free real estate]

And I disagree with what that centre was doing, as does the State funder.

So men should be allowed in a rape crisis centre?

 

[Malifice]

So men should be allowed in a rape crisis centre?

A person that genuinely identifies as a woman should be allowed in a 'women only' rape crisis centre, yes.

I dont think the critereon should be 'show your vagina to enter'.

What do you propose as a critereon for entry? Digital examinations?

 

[its free real estate]

A person that genuinely identifies as a woman should be allowed in a 'women only' rape crisis centre, yes.

I dont think the critereon should be 'show your vagina to enter'.

How do we tell if someone genuinely identifies as a woman?

 

[Malifice]

How do we tell if someone genuinely identifies as a woman?

How does the rape centre tell if she's biologically a woman? Digital examination?

A judgement by the staff is required. The answer is self evident in the overwhelming majority of cases.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

How do we tell if someone genuinely identifies as a woman?

How do you tell now?

 

[Socrates2]

Dont get triggered mate. It's literally what they want you to do.

Breathe, and prove these clowns wrong with reasoned debate.

I'm seriously not triggered, I'm just acting like a normal person would act in a workplace , it's everyone's right to call out this stuff , and other people should do the same.I'm doing it for all the young dudes who join bigfooty and think this is normal.It's not normal outside of big footy.If you don't say anything they just get more emboldened and post worse stuff.All the best tonight , I hope Walsh,Gibbo and Setterfield do well for my supercoach but that's as magnanimous as I can get!

 

[Taylor]

Women being relegated to **** and instagram isnt a function of biology

Can you please elaborate on what you meant by this as a significant part of this, in my view, is due to women capitalising on a biological difference?

It might eventually get to the place where we discuss whether a woman objectifying herself is any different to that being done by a man, but the root basis of it all, again in my view, is a biological difference (some might argue advantage).

I see women who work at strippers, skimpies, topless waitresses, prostitutes etc as exploiting men over a biological imperative. Not the men exploiting the women.

So I might be looking at it from an opposite perspective.