Transgender

[Gralin]

Discussion continuing in Part 2 found here

Transgender - Part 2

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[mcnulty]

When concerted, immediate, sustained focus on the climate crisis, and on inequality, are SO imperative, the right wing turds are just rubbing their hands with glee at lefties getting all hot under the collar about something that has next to zero relevance for the vast majority of people. They are playing you folk like a cheap violin.

Republicans in America are certainly running hard on this, and anything else they think they can label “woke”. Certainly they see this as a winning strategy, I’m afraid it probably is.

Democrats should be thanking their lucky stars for Trump, who is the only reason they won’t get obliterated in 2024.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

So it’s ALL about good manners and not being an a-hole?

You really think that’s the first principles at play here?

This extraordinary, worldwide phenomenon we’ve witnessed in the last few years is just about manners and not being an a-hole? LOL.

Anyway, back to my question. Viewed entirely in the abstract, without introducing motives for either player, can you answer, who has to give?

Those claiming "good manners" are the same that would scream at political opponents int he street, spit at those who opposed them, call people with basic political and philosophical differences fascists etc - and we've seen that in these and many other threads. They are to be ignored from their trojan high horse.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Those claiming "good manners" are the same that would scream at political opponents int he street, spit at those who opposed them, call people with basic political and philosophical differences fascists etc - and we've seen that in these and many other threads. They are to be ignored from their trojan high horse.

Sound like the anti vac movement

 

[Gralin]

Sound like the anti vac movement

To be fair there were nazis at the let women speak rallies so people spitting on them and calling them fascists wouldn't be a bad thing.

Given they were actual nazis.

But it is interesting that people want to reduce the conversation to just pronouns and then claim it's so insignificant as to not be worth any time at all.

Like the issues trans people face are much bigger than just pronouns and cis people also have to deal with pronouns.

Last night on four corners they talked about a 14 year old with an eating disorder not receiving proper treatment and taking their own life.

But SBD Gonzalez doesn't want to talk about that because they're in a minority group.

Never mind this thread is about that topic and they're posting in here.

Nevermind the antitrans people are trying to exclude trans people from society, withhold medical care etc

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I don’t disagree. But are you saying gender questions shouldn’t ever be viewed as a psychological issue?

I'm saying the bathroom police are just as likely to have psychological issues.

And that hormone therapy could help fix them too.

 

[Gralin]

Jesus Christ Four Corners.
To provide balance to the trans people, clinicians and experts they interviewed they had a psychologist who promotes lies and debunked research who spoke at a KJK rally about puberty blockers being experimental (they aren't, they've been used for almost 50 years and are mostly used by cis people without anyone worrying)

A binary Australia ambassador who is a counsellor with no qualifications in the field who pushed social contagion on the show and spruiked her own "I can't believe it's not conversion therapy" therapy.

And a detransioner. Now a detransioner is fine, no issues, people do detransition and it's lived experience.

Of course the majority of people who do detransition tend to primarily cite outside influences and reasons, mostly family/societal pressure.

But not the four corners one, no her reasoning?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Sound like the anti vac movement

Sounds like projection

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Those claiming "good manners" are the same that would scream at political opponents int he street, spit at those who opposed them, call people with basic political and philosophical differences fascists etc - and we've seen that in these and many other threads. They are to be ignored from their trojan high horse.

You expect us to believe that you can think like someone with good manners?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Sounds like projection

sounds like you don't know your ass from your elbow
antivaxxers spat on and otherwise assaulted health care workers.
called us fascist for getting them vaccinated
so you and your freedumbers can kindly **** off out of my health care system

go ahead, make a formal complaint to AHPRA.

 

[Crankyhawk]

To be fair there were nazis at the let women speak rallies so people spitting on them and calling them fascists wouldn't be a bad thing.

Given they were actual nazis.

But it is interesting that people want to reduce the conversation to just pronouns and then claim it's so insignificant as to not be worth any time at all.

Like the issues trans people face are much bigger than just pronouns and cis people also have to deal with pronouns.

Last night on four corners they talked about a 14 year old with an eating disorder not receiving proper treatment and taking their own life.

But SBD Gonzalez doesn't want to talk about that because they're in a minority group.

Never mind this thread is about that topic and they're posting in here.

Nevermind the antitrans people are trying to exclude trans people from society, withhold medical care etc

Though I would like some perspective on the place of psychology in a gender clinic. A few who seek transition services are motivated by experiences of trauma (generally sexual assault) and seek to protect themselves against further assault by gender change (a somewhat fallacious intent as the incidence of sexual assault in trans community is often higher) the question is then is it reasonable to have psychologists aiming to identify patients to address trauma or is this seen as another barrier to trans people existing? Again I don't know where the balance is.

 

[Gralin]

Though I would like some perspective on the place of psychology in a gender clinic. A few who seek transition services are motivated by experiences of trauma (generally sexual assault) and seek to protect themselves against further assault by gender change (a somewhat fallacious intent as the incidence of sexual assault in trans community is often higher) the question is then is it reasonable to have psychologists aiming to identify patients to address trauma or is this seen as another barrier to trans people existing? Again I don't know where the balance is.

Did you quote the right post?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Did you quote the right post?

More asking the question of a poster who has a firmer idea of where you see the line, and relevance to the last line in your post about "medical care" in that some could see provision of psychology (a type of medical care) as akin to conversion therapy (as in "you aren't trans" type conversion) vs trying to address trauma that is driving a decision for the few that are motivated in that way (and they do exist, having met them; they are not a majority but they do exist)

 

[Gralin]

More asking the question of a poster who has a firmer idea of where you see the line, and relevance to the last line in your post about "medical care" in that some could see provision of psychology (a type of medical care) as akin to conversion therapy (as in "you aren't trans" type conversion) vs trying to address trauma that is driving a decision for the few that are motivated in that way (and they do exist, having met them; they are not a majority but they do exist)

So psychologists are part of the team.

Gender affirming care doesn't start with puberty blockers or HRT, it starts with talking to the patient.

Gender affirming care doesn't need surgery or HRT or puberty blockers.

Not everyone wants or needs those things.

 

[Crankyhawk]

So psychologists are part of the team.

Gender affirming care doesn't start with puberty blockers or HRT, it starts with talking to the patient.

Gender affirming care doesn't need surgery or HRT or puberty blockers.

Not everyone wants or needs those things.

Solid response, thanks

 

[ShanDog]

Jesus Christ Four Corners.
To provide balance to the trans people, clinicians and experts they interviewed they had a psychologist who promotes lies and debunked research who spoke at a KJK rally about puberty blockers being experimental (they aren't, they've been used for almost 50 years and are mostly used by cis people without anyone worrying)

This is a very common misleading view regarding puberty blockers.

They were used mainly to treat precocious puberty. That use is temporary, and shouldn't therefore produce other ill effects. However, that's not how they are used as part of gender affirming care, and is one of the significant problematic findings out of Scandinavia and the UK.

Gender affirming care itself is a concept that originated out of medically unsubstantiated sociological research, as opposed to clinical trials which came much, much later and have also been found lacking. Knowing that history, it's hardly surprising that we're now coming up against unforseen problems with the use of puberty blockers above and beyond their initial clinical approval.

 

[Gralin]

This is a very common misleading view regarding puberty blockers.

They were used mainly to treat precocious puberty. That use is temporary, and shouldn't therefore produce other ill effects. However, that's not how they are used as part of gender affirming care, and is one of the significant problematic findings out of Scandinavia and the UK.

Gender affirming care itself is a concept that originated out of medically unsubstantiated sociological research, as opposed to clinical trials which came much, much later and have also been found lacking. Knowing that history, it's hardly surprising that we're now coming up against unforseen problems with the use of puberty blockers above and beyond their initial clinical approval.

Feel free to not quote me Shan, I see no point engaging with you after your posting yesterday

 

[Gralin]

Puberty Blockers – Overview of the research

The UK media is full of scaremongering about puberty blockers (GnRHa) and the evidence or supposed lack thereof in support of their use for trans adolescents. Opinions abound, but few, however, hav…

growinguptransgender.com

 

[ShanDog]

Feel free to not quote me Shan, I see no point engaging with you after your posting yesterday

What posting? What have I said that was so egregious?

And I'll quote you whenever I feel it's required. This is a forum and that's the idea.

 

[ShanDog]

Puberty Blockers – Overview of the research

The UK media is full of scaremongering about puberty blockers (GnRHa) and the evidence or supposed lack thereof in support of their use for trans adolescents. Opinions abound, but few, however, hav…

growinguptransgender.com

Yes, an article about puberty blockers from the Growing Up Transgender website that starts with sentence "The UK media is full of scaremongering about puberty blockers" is certainly a reliable authority on the matter...

 

[Gralin]

Glinner is such a sad loser



He's had so many attempts to chase clout backfire, but he just keeps trying

 

[Crankyhawk]

Glinner is such a sad loser



He's had so many attempts to chase clout backfire, but he just keeps trying

Should we know who that random troll is (Glinner)

 

[Saint]

Should we know who that random troll is (Glinner)

He wrote some decent UK comedies (Father Ted, Black Books, IT Crowd).

Started fairly moderately anti-trans but copped so much backlash that he now seems at constant war against trans activists.

 

[Gralin]

He wrote some decent UK comedies (Father Ted, Black Books, IT Crowd).

Started fairly moderately anti-trans but copped so much backlash that he now seems at constant war against trans activists.

Yeah i think sinking his own career and marriage posting hate online has left him with nothing else to do but double down

He's so rabid though even his own side object to him from time to time.

Meanwhile David Tennant just being a legend again

 

[Chief]

So psychologists are part of the team.

Gender affirming care doesn't start with puberty blockers or HRT, it starts with talking to the patient.

Gender affirming care doesn't need surgery or HRT or puberty blockers.

Not everyone wants or needs those things.

The people I know directly took several YEARS before they started any actual medical intervention. Like, three years at least as far as I recall.

They aren't fronting up demanding drugs on day one.

Yet the conservative commentators focus on the medical intervention almost entirely.

 

[Chief]

Meanwhile David Tennant just being a legend again

Nearly spat my drink out laughing when I zoomed in on the text on the t-shirt.