Transgender

[Gralin]

Discussion continuing in Part 2 found here

Transgender - Part 2

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Better Loosen Up]

There's never been any law against using people's correct pronouns. It's just that many people get awfully p'd off if you use the wrong pronoun. And that's if you do it by accident. (we've all done it at some point, mistaking a male for a female an vice versa).

I get pretty annoyed when someone refers to me as cis because I feel it's a label that is being forced upon me that I don't recognize with.

 

[faible]

I mean I'm fine with both being punched in the face.

Could have just gone with that instead of going off on the whole Nazi tangent then.

I'm not sure how many Nazi's happen to be Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists personally though. They might have overlap in their dislike of trans people but I don't recall the Nazi's being particularly concerned with feminism or women's rights.

 

[Chief]

I get pretty annoyed when someone refers to me as cis because I feel it's a label that is being forced upon me that I don't recognize with.

You're not cis?

 

[Gralin]

That’s what she’s advocating.

No she's advocating fighting back against TERFs

I get pretty annoyed when someone refers to me as cis because I feel it's a label that is being forced upon me that I don't recognize with.

So you're trans then?

 

[faible]

You're not cis?

More sis than cis perhaps?

 

[mcnulty]

You do realise that TERFs aren't just women yeah?

A lot of men like Glinner and Matt Walsh

But mainly I have no issues with people that are being oppressed fighting back

Good to see you’re not gender biased when advocating who gets assaulted, Gralin. You’re no better than the people you decry, and worse than most of them. Fanatic.

 

[Gralin]

Could have just gone with that instead of going off on the whole Nazi tangent then.

I'm not sure how many Nazi's happen to be Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists personally though. They might have overlap in their dislike of trans people but I don't recall the Nazi's being particularly concerned with feminism or women's rights.

Funnily enough neither are the TERFS

 

[faible]

Funnily enough neither are the TERFS

But isn't the whole thing about TERFs is that they're drawing the line at who they consider a woman to be?

Seems to me like a very malleable version of the definition you're using. Someone can be opposed to transgender rights and not be a TERF at all, because they don't actually fit the rest of the definition.

Or is this the thing that happens when you simply label people as a 'thing' when you dislike them, such that the thing loses all meaning?

A bit like how every single poster on BigFooty has at some point being called a Fascist by you, despite pretty much none of us actually being fascists.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

You're not cis?

No, I am. I just don't identify with the term itself.

 

[mcnulty]

No she's advocating fighting back against TERFs

No she’s advocating assaulting them.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I get pretty annoyed when someone refers to me as cis because I feel it's a label that is being forced upon me that I don't recognize with.

You must have been pretty exited when Elon tweeted that.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

You must have been pretty exited when Elon tweeted that.

Why? I find Elon a rather boring person to be honest. I don't pay attention to anything he says.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Why? I find Elon a rather boring person to be honest. I don't pay attention to anything he says.

Ok, probably just a coincidence then.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Ok, probably just a coincidence then.

I guess so. The only time I've read his comments have either been something to do with the disgusting ways he treats his employees or his ridiculous stance on the Ukraine war. But that's not for this thread.

 

[Gralin]

No, I am. I just don't identify with the term itself.

Why?

 

[Saint]

I get pretty annoyed when someone refers to me as cis because I feel it's a label that is being forced upon me that I don't recognize with.

I tend to agree, I'm happy with he/him or male. And I think if you asked somebody not to call you cis, then they wouldn't. I've never been called cis-

Have you ever asked somebody to use the pronouns he/him or call you a man, boy or male (i'm assuming you're male) and been refused? I don't think I've ever seen that happen to a person except a transgender person (on video).

 

[Gralin]

But isn't the whole thing about TERFs is that they're drawing the line at who they consider a woman to be?

Seems to me like a very malleable version of the definition you're using. Someone can be opposed to transgender rights and not be a TERF at all, because they don't actually fit the rest of the definition.

Or is this the thing that happens when you simply label people as a 'thing' when you dislike them, such that the thing loses all meaning?

A bit like how every single poster on BigFooty has at some point being called a Fascist by you, despite pretty much none of us actually being fascists.

TERFs want to control what a woman is, what they can be and what they can do.

There's nothing actually feminist about them these days regardless of where the term came from.

The leaders of the antitrans movement, call them terfs, transphobes, bigots, whatever aren't about feminism or safety of women or anything else like that.

They're after control via this issue. It's why actual nazis are part of the movement, it's why most of the leaders are anti abortion.

Seriously, KJK wasn't here to let women speak, she was here to lobby again the abortion pill access changes that just went live.

They attack cis women who don't meet their standards as well, there is rampant misogyny and racism and homophobia within the movement.

Their defence is always oh so you hate women etc like they're all women and speak for all women

 

[faible]

TERFs want to control what a woman is, what they can be and what they can do.

There's nothing actually feminist about them these days regardless of where the term came from.

The leaders of the antitrans movement, call them terfs, transphobes, bigots, whatever aren't about feminism or safety of women or anything else like that.

They're after control via this issue. It's why actual nazis are part of the movement, it's why most of the leaders are anti abortion.

Seriously, KJK wasn't here to let women speak, she was here to lobby again the abortion pill access changes that just went live.

They attack cis women who don't meet their standards as well, there is rampant misogyny and racism and homophobia within the movement.

Their defence is always oh so you hate women etc like they're all women and speak for all women

You could have simply agreed you know

Or is this the thing that happens when you simply label people as a 'thing' when you dislike them, such that the thing loses all meaning?

 

[Gralin]

Ah we're back to this version of discussion cool

 

[ShanDog]

Which sounds like a way - as Gralin said - to make out that being trans isn't real. The same sort of idea that means people with mental health issues can't be trusted as witnesses to their own abuse or assault.

A demand to prove that the issue at hand is NOT caused by something else before you can be believed. Eliminate everything else first even though we have plenty of examples of trans people without any of these things in their life.

It could sound like 50 blue elephants farting the 1812 Overture for all I care.

Obviously there are trans people. We know a significant number of youths with gender dysphoria are also experiencing other issues. Therefore, it's extremely important these confounding issues are investigated so that the person can receive the appropriate care. Holistic assessment and all that.

Or we can stamp feet and yell so about never questioning adolescents about something as significant as their gender identity and treat all their issues as discrete and unrelated. That'll help.

 

[Chief]

it's extremely important these confounding issues are investigated so that the person can receive the appropriate care. Holistic assessment and all that.

Are they not? Are those issues being ignored entirely?

 

[ShanDog]

Are they not? Are those issues being ignored entirely?

Not well enough from what I've seen, and there's concerted push to deny any causal links or against the suggestion of confounding issues by trans rights activists.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Can we apply these same causal links to religious folk, or would that be considered discriminatory?

 

[Chief]

Not well enough from what I've seen, and there's concerted push to deny any causal links or against the suggestion of confounding issues by trans rights activists.

Maybe people on the spectrum are less concerned about what people think and more people should do the same?

Given it's not anywhere near universal, I can't see that a higher rate of ASD in trans people is cause for panic.

It's like the panic over an increase in people openly identifying as another gender. It's really just lifting to its normal level given increased acceptance.

 

[ShanDog]

Maybe people on the spectrum are less concerned about what people think and more people should do the same?

Given it's not anywhere near universal, I can't see that a higher rate of ASD in trans people is cause for panic.

It's like the panic over an increase in people openly identifying as another gender. It's really just lifting to its normal level given increased acceptance.

That could be true, and it's also the "nicest" of possibilities. My gut says it's only partially right.