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TLR Captaincy Burden, s**t coaching, out of position. Excuses offered for him here. I do not believe these are the reasons, but plehnty here do. I am sure that of the 17 clubs 1 may think this too and is prepared to make a good offer.
Well a few facts. On his _performance_ then it is undeniable he has been playing s**t. What he did vs Geelong at the end was possibly the worst captaincy of any professional sport I can recall for a long time. Then 3 kicks vs Essendon and now what...9 kicks against a team of cripples in Brisbane and those turnovers- he is barely SANFL standard kicking now.
What is relevant is that these are not aberrations. I've seen every single game he has played for points or finals and know what I see, including those live. His last 50 games have been atrocious. There is no cash for him to have not been spelled or dropped. There is a reason Ken is continually asked "whats wrong with Travis is he injured" over the last few years, never mind the debate for 6 years over "we should have got Selwood" prior to his 2 2 AAs when we agreed it was now a draw...but the last 2 seasons have, anyway, sliding doors and that
So, what would he be worth to someone else? The answer to that is he would be worth more than I think he is worth to us so I would take that offer.
The evidence of that is the persistence of those here who are adamant that he is being played out of position and if we only played him where he won his 2 AAs he would be great again. Unless they are completely wrong then I believe of the 17 other clubs there would be one who may believes that he is worth paying more than I believe he is contributing to us
Add over this the evidence that we have a dud coach and other coaches may also see his effectiveness as being ******ed by poor coaching, direction, sets ups and positioning. I think it is pretty clear that most players have regressed from their peak under Ken Hinckley I expect other clubs would know this too. Or is it just a coincidence that Boak, Wingard, Gray, Lobbe, Hartlett, Pittard are playing well under the level they should be expected to play at?
In addition to this the issue of "captaincy burden"- another excuse offered here for him
I am sure there is another club that would think Travis Boak is worth a punt on a pick 20-30 if they had 2 or 3 before that.
Let me ask you- do you think he would be worth something to ANY other AFL club? Because if not, I assume you are making the case he should be dropped (which I am incidentally on the basis of performance and poor leadership being a playing field cancer)
The way some are reacting you'd think he'd been getting 8 touches a game, as opposed to averaging 22 and a goal a game.
I find some of the comments about Boak a bit extreme. Either very disrespectful or over the top (best player of the last decade? LOL).
To me, he has been a good to very good player who is either past it or going through a very long rough patch. Hopefully, he recovers some form and can contribute to the team for a couple of more years.
Average to good captain. Played well when the team was playing well but I don't recall many games where he got us over the line. Especially the past couple of years. When a team fails to win close and/or crucial games the way we do, the captain has to come under scrutiny.
He's time as Port's captain should end with this season.
1. I believe he should be dropped
2. There is no point talking about trading players if Ken isn't dropping them from time to time
3. Coaching isn't the ONLY reason for his poor form but I believe it's a big part of it
4. Pick 40-50 is worth bugger all to us and I think the possibility of a new coach playing Travis in the right position would be a far bigger positive than a speculative pick
You're very strong in your opinion and I think you're expecting others to make extremely strong statements one way or the other. There's nothing wrong with people pointing out external factors for his poor form over the last year and a bit. It's just discussion.
I enjoyed your comments and in the main agree with the exception of the comment about being disrespectful. For mine the guys serving in Afghanistan have my respect. People earning $700k to kick pig leather and model clothes on instagram do not. They are judged on their performances, and who they might be keeping out of a spot.
Make him a tagger
You can do the latter and still be respectful. Some of the commentary flying around lately is far from respectful.
Granted there is no place for personal slurs. Comments like Coward, s**t person, campaigner I agree have no place.
But Poor captain, ran away from contest, dud footballer is about performance and as subjective as it is. Free and fair in the public discourse.
Personally, I think the performance on the field is far more disrespectful to the members and fans than most if not all comments here have been.
Can I offer the post game function 9 days ago as a case in point? They club announced it and told us and invited us to attend it after the game. One hour after that performance no one had arrived. When they did, all it was was Westhoff, Sam Gray and Jonas with Brendan Lade. Westhoff stood by a wall head in hands didn't speak. Sam Gray stood by another wall head in hands can't recall if he spoke.
This was the first game in Melbourne this year. I have 3 kids who are members and they walked out at half time. They said getting a churo would be better. There will be 3 less memberships purchased next year I can guarantee that.
Perhaps if our Coach, Captain and Vice Captain stood before the members, remember, like used to happen at Alberton in the 80s and 90s and decades before? Stood and took it on the chin. Its a 2-way street about what is and what isn't respectful
I remember the post game function in the first final we played, it was MCG vs North where Carey beat us. I went to the post game at the glasshouse and watched all the players appear on stage and apologise. Wilbur was in tears if I recall. I don't want tears, I don't expect all the players, but in this setting I do want to see accountability, especially after that performance
I wonder if more is expected from the paying supporters than those being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and leading the club?
Well as you say if there had been. But thankfully the coach and captain never hid from a bad performance and stood before their members and we were usually winning.Dud footballer is pretty disrespectful. For reasons I have stated I don't feel I have an obligation to cowtow, i disagree this is disrespectful and if it is then its a low bar we all cross in a great number of posts in this sub. He's certainly not that. my opinion based on his performance differs No one is saying don't criticise but personal slurs like that go nowhere. i can't actually recall many or any personal insults to him but thats besides
As for the lacklustre post-match, for a start that's not Boak's fault so not sure why that's your example. i strongly disagree. for reasons stated. leadership, or more visibly, lack of leadership. But thats just to my standards, clearly not his or the clubs Also have you contacted the club and said that it was pretty poor and why? no but i will now that you mention it. my experience is from past engagements that the club doesn't listen. My experience is that when they do, in most companies the directors call after you do that i'll be polite of course and will return and report and see how the response is. Like the Dominoes pretty poor coverage ad. Let the club know so they can do something about it. Just walking away - 3 less memberships - is really no better a response from you than what the club served up in your opinion. this is their decision, not mine. I sat there all game, then went to the after match. for them clearly the club is arbitrary. but i can see their point. they are teenagers and wanted them for christmas following the 2013/14 revivals. now they just aren't really interested, for various reasons. their membership lets them go to the grand final if they want but they've just booked to go away that time of year it would appear they lack confidence on that. but this is the no true scotsman fallacy. they aren't truye supporters. The success of a club is by how they engage those who aren't as fanatical as the rusted on supporters, the fair weathers and come latelys. How do things improve if there is no meaningful feedback? this is a valid point i will make my concern known. would you suggest KT is the person to communicate to?
I was there every week in the mid 80s to 90s when the coach and captain stood before the members good performance or bad. And I don't remember any disrespect being shown. I feel this "disrespect" stuff is a red herring Ford. a straw man. I accept I am not objective here but i can't say I can see any disrespect that is personal or unwarranted by performance. I also was there from time to time in the 80s 90s and don't recall when the captain or coach were not there, and believe that this is the more valid element of the discussion I would think and even gives some explanation to issues of respect and disrespect. If there had been I think that person would have been sorted out by the other members who understand the difference between constructive criticism and abuse.
I know you are passionate B0ydmoan . The disrespect comment was not just directed at you, all the mods have noticed a lowering of attitudes to the players and staff in some posts by some posters. Where this is adjudged to have crossed a line, it has been dealt with. Appreciate your letting me know that
But as I posted a few weeks ago, there are posters who are becoming increasingly concerned by the level of discussion and are turning away as a result. Nobody wants an environment so toxic that people don't feel comfortable here. I'm not going to argue that. You understand this place and all the forums better than I do. I (genuinely) make an effort to stay out of most every thread here for that reason and appreciate that even though it would be unwarranted to take it from me, I am given open latitude to throw my dummy out of the cot. Thankless task you mods make a good board i'd prefer all people enjoy it here. My points have been made (and made) (and made) under this iteration I guess
As for Boak's non-attendance at the club event, you don't know that was not taken out of his hands or what the club had organised. He's the club captain but in the end he is directed by club leadership. Good point. As I say I will respond and am usually the first person to rectify something like that where I know. Either way, someone let us down that night
Unfortunately players are cocooned from the supporter events but then they are open slather on social media. It cuts both ways. I expect that the great majority are on here and read these threads. In particular their personal threads. I would not be surprised if Neade read the thread debating him i say that because his effort last week (pressure effort) was tremendous. I can't fault his effort last week. If the other players gave that effort we would be a premiership contender. I also say that because I deal with many companies listed on the ASX and work with plenty of company directors and know they are on HotCopper reading all the posts about them and the company.....ALL........THE........TIME. Its human nature to do so in this great goldfish bowl of life. There is absolutely no doubt players and coaches family are here. They live and breath the club and its ups and downs more than us. Its reasonably easy to work out who the players are too, fwiw. But that's another conversation
I think it's good that you take your complaint about the event to the club. They have to know where issues exist so they can fix them. do you have a suggestion? KT?.
B0ydmoan
Ben Demertzis is the membership manager and extremely approachable. I think everyone has good dealings with Ben.
bdemertzis@pafc.com.au
Yes hard worker, nice bloke, approachable as hell, loves the club. Once said that working for Port is his dream job.I can vouch for this.
Benny D will go down as a PAFC legend!
Travis does a lot of work behind the scenes.
The players respect him.
He gets my vote as Captain............................ Simple.
Travis does a lot of work behind the scenes.
The players respect him.
He gets my vote as Captain............................ Simple.
And the camera really needs to follow him 24/7 .. just to make sure.Mrs Bomber would gladly contribute to anything called "Boak Cam".