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Travis Cloke

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MightyTiger said:
Once again you didn't read it properly, the only way we could fit Cloke into our salary cap is because of the massive hole in our list from our top end players to our bottom 10-15 players.

We have Martin, Riewoldt and Cotchin who are 2-4 years away from there prime and truly commanding of contracts worth 500-600k a year, and when there next contract negotiations come up the only one who could make a case for a larger slice of the pie is Cotchin.

And as I already stated, the young ones such as Conca, Ellis, Batchelor, Griffiths etc, these guys will only receive slight upgrades, nothing in the vicinity as our top liners.

If Collingwood can sign up all of Thomas, Pendelbury, Swan, Sidebottom and Beams to big $s especially the first 3 then I see no reason why as to why we couldn't fit Cloke into our cap.
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It depends on what you mean by slight upgrades for younger players.
Ellis, for instance, would be on minimum wage, which for a 1st year player I think I around 70k. Do you honestly think his next contract would be signed off for anything less than $150k? That's twice what he is getting now.
Martin is already earning good coin and yes he would have knocked back a massive offer from elsewhere, but he is still not getting paid unders.
You need to pay players what they worth or more than what they are worth to either keep or entice them, not less than what they are worth. Yes,players will sacrifice a massive increase to stay with a club, but they won't accept unders. Nobody does.
There's a difference between being loyal and being stupid or on the other hand, from the club's point of view, treating players with contempt.
 
For those wondering how we might fit in Cloke, here is how I reckon we might go about it.

Salary Cap for 2013 is $9.139 million, the minimum we have to pay is $8.682 million. Using the player list below I'm going to try and give an example of how our players may be paid.
#2 Dylan Grimes: $200k
#3 Brett Deledio: $600k
#4 Dustin Martin: $400k
#6 Shaun Grigg: $330K
#7 Matt Dea: $150K
#8 Jack Riewoldt: $500k
#9 Trent Cotchin: $300k
#10 Shane Edwards: $200k
#11 Jake Batchelor: 150k
#12 David Astbury: $175k
#14 Bachar Houli: $330k
#17 Chris Newman: $450k - 50% counts to cap if veteran listed.
#18 Alex Rance: $200K
#20 Ivan Maric: $250k
#21 Shane Tuck: $250k
#23 Daniel Jackson: $250k
#24 Ben Griffiths: $150k
#25 Angus Graham: $150k
#26 Robin Nahas: $200k
#28 Jake King: $175k
#29 Tyrone Vickery: $200k
#30 Reece Conca: $150k
#32 Bradley Helbig: $100k
#37 Jayden Post: $100k
#38 Steven Morris: $150k
#39 Tom Derickx: $90k
#40 Kelvin Moore: $150k
#41 Nathan Foley: $250k
#42 Brandon Ellis: $130k
#43 Todd Elton: $130k
#44 Matthew Arnot: $85k
#45 Brett O'Hanlon: $65k

Total: $7 million for 32 senior listed players.
Add 7 rookies at $50k each = $7.35m
6 new draftees total $560k = $7.91m*

Leaves $772k to $1.229mil in cap space.

That would be enough to go after Cloke if we wanted to, especially if we veteran listed Newman which would add another $225k to those figures. In fact with that we could go after Cloke and say Chaplin


*Note: Figures used are maximum amounts if players were to play every game.
 

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Ize Of The World said:
Good stuff RT. What a bargain Cotch is. That's his current contract right?
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They are all what I assume they are on for their current contracts. Obviously things change with new deals coming in and not everyone is going to play every game.
 
Yeah undoubtedly we have the dosh for Cloke. Just comes down to whether or not we want to spend it on him. And what he wants to do obviously.
 
Our cap space and what the likes of Cotchin, Martin & Jack are on now is totally irelevant. It's what their their next contracts will cost. Saying we have X amount left for Cloke based on current salaries is a bit of a straw man argument IMO.
 
Harmichael said:
Our cap space and what the likes of Cotchin, Martin & Jack are on now is totally irelevant. It's what their their next contracts will cost. Saying we have X amount left for Cloke based on current salaries is a bit of a straw man argument IMO.
Click to expand...

Don't see the figures changing that much from what I've posted except for Cotchin. Jack and Martin would pretty much stay on what they are currently on, perhaps even drop a little if its to land a bloke like Cloke. Could quite easily see all 3 take deals of say 3 years at $400k per season especially if it was the difference between us playing finals and being a flag chance and just making up the numbers.
 
RT73 said:
Don't see the figures changing that much from what I've posted except for Cotchin. Jack and Martin would pretty much stay on what they are currently on, perhaps even drop a little if its to land a bloke like Cloke. Could quite easily see all 3 take deals of say 3 years at $400k per season especially if it was the difference between us playing finals and being a flag chance and just making up the numbers.
Click to expand...
if you pay the likes of cloke what he wants you will have tospit out a rance or a vickory out the other side they will get better and demand more money
 
RT73 said:
For those wondering how we might fit in Cloke, here is how I reckon we might go about it.

Salary Cap for 2013 is $9.139 million, the minimum we have to pay is $8.682 million. Using the player list below I'm going to try and give an example of how our players may be paid.
#2 Dylan Grimes: $200k
#3 Brett Deledio: $600k
#4 Dustin Martin: $400k
#6 Shaun Grigg: $330K
#7 Matt Dea: $150K
#8 Jack Riewoldt: $500k
#9 Trent Cotchin: $300k
#10 Shane Edwards: $200k
#11 Jake Batchelor: 150k
#12 David Astbury: $175k
#14 Bachar Houli: $330k
#17 Chris Newman: $450k - 50% counts to cap if veteran listed.
#18 Alex Rance: $200K
#20 Ivan Maric: $250k
#21 Shane Tuck: $250k
#23 Daniel Jackson: $250k
#24 Ben Griffiths: $150k
#25 Angus Graham: $150k
#26 Robin Nahas: $200k
#28 Jake King: $175k
#29 Tyrone Vickery: $200k
#30 Reece Conca: $150k
#32 Bradley Helbig: $100k
#37 Jayden Post: $100k
#38 Steven Morris: $150k
#39 Tom Derickx: $90k
#40 Kelvin Moore: $150k
#41 Nathan Foley: $250k
#42 Brandon Ellis: $130k
#43 Todd Elton: $130k
#44 Matthew Arnot: $85k
#45 Brett O'Hanlon: $65k

Total: $7 million for 32 senior listed players.
Add 7 rookies at $50k each = $7.35m
6 new draftees total $560k = $7.91m*

Leaves $772k to $1.229mil in cap space.

That would be enough to go after Cloke if we wanted to, especially if we veteran listed Newman which would add another $225k to those figures. In fact with that we could go after Cloke and say Chaplin


*Note: Figures used are maximum amounts if players were to play every game.
Click to expand...

cotch wont be on 300k given grigg and houli on the same,if anything they would be lower. newy wont be on 450k and also the vets list has changed and is as many as you like but capped at 100k per player. gus i reckon is not contracted for next year and will be gone next year with browne staying on.

either way good effort and it shows we have cap space.
 
RT73 said:
For those wondering how we might fit in Cloke, here is how I reckon we might go about it.

Salary Cap for 2013 is $9.139 million, the minimum we have to pay is $8.682 million. Using the player list below I'm going to try and give an example of how our players may be paid.
#2 Dylan Grimes: $200k
#3 Brett Deledio: $600k
#4 Dustin Martin: $400k
#6 Shaun Grigg: $330K
#7 Matt Dea: $150K
#8 Jack Riewoldt: $500k
#9 Trent Cotchin: $300k
#10 Shane Edwards: $200k
#11 Jake Batchelor: 150k
#12 David Astbury: $175k
#14 Bachar Houli: $330k
#17 Chris Newman: $450k - 50% counts to cap if veteran listed.
#18 Alex Rance: $200K
#20 Ivan Maric: $250k
#21 Shane Tuck: $250k
#23 Daniel Jackson: $250k
#24 Ben Griffiths: $150k
#25 Angus Graham: $150k
#26 Robin Nahas: $200k
#28 Jake King: $175k
#29 Tyrone Vickery: $200k
#30 Reece Conca: $150k
#32 Bradley Helbig: $100k
#37 Jayden Post: $100k
#38 Steven Morris: $150k
#39 Tom Derickx: $90k
#40 Kelvin Moore: $150k
#41 Nathan Foley: $250k
#42 Brandon Ellis: $130k
#43 Todd Elton: $130k
#44 Matthew Arnot: $85k
#45 Brett O'Hanlon: $65k

Total: $7 million for 32 senior listed players.
Add 7 rookies at $50k each = $7.35m
6 new draftees total $560k = $7.91m*

Leaves $772k to $1.229mil in cap space.

That would be enough to go after Cloke if we wanted to, especially if we veteran listed Newman which would add another $225k to those figures. In fact with that we could go after Cloke and say Chaplin


*Note: Figures used are maximum amounts if players were to play every game.
Click to expand...

Great post we must stop agreeing, IMO if they reckon he would be an asset get him
 

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theflea said:
cotch wont be on 300k given grigg and houli on the same,if anything they would be lower. newy wont be on 450k and also the vets list has changed and is as many as you like but capped at 100k per player. gus i reckon is not contracted for next year and will be gone next year with browne staying on.

either way good effort and it shows we have cap space.
Click to expand...
IMO Cotchin would be on that sort of coin at the moment because of the injuries, Grigg and Houli were on that sort of money because it was needed to get them away from their previous clubs. Also forgot about the change to the vets list so thanks for reminding me.
 
RT73 said:
For those wondering how we might fit in Cloke, here is how I reckon we might go about it.

Salary Cap for 2013 is $9.139 million, the minimum we have to pay is $8.682 million. Using the player list below I'm going to try and give an example of how our players may be paid.
#2 Dylan Grimes: $200k
#3 Brett Deledio: $600k
#4 Dustin Martin: $400k
#6 Shaun Grigg: $330K
#7 Matt Dea: $150K
#8 Jack Riewoldt: $500k
#9 Trent Cotchin: $300k
#10 Shane Edwards: $200k
#11 Jake Batchelor: 150k
#12 David Astbury: $175k
#14 Bachar Houli: $330k
#17 Chris Newman: $450k - 50% counts to cap if veteran listed.
#18 Alex Rance: $200K
#20 Ivan Maric: $250k
#21 Shane Tuck: $250k
#23 Daniel Jackson: $250k
#24 Ben Griffiths: $150k
#25 Angus Graham: $150k
#26 Robin Nahas: $200k
#28 Jake King: $175k
#29 Tyrone Vickery: $200k
#30 Reece Conca: $150k
#32 Bradley Helbig: $100k
#37 Jayden Post: $100k
#38 Steven Morris: $150k
#39 Tom Derickx: $90k
#40 Kelvin Moore: $150k
#41 Nathan Foley: $250k
#42 Brandon Ellis: $130k
#43 Todd Elton: $130k
#44 Matthew Arnot: $85k
#45 Brett O'Hanlon: $65k

Total: $7 million for 32 senior listed players.
Add 7 rookies at $50k each = $7.35m
6 new draftees total $560k = $7.91m*

Leaves $772k to $1.229mil in cap space.

That would be enough to go after Cloke if we wanted to, especially if we veteran listed Newman which would add another $225k to those figures. In fact with that we could go after Cloke and say Chaplin


*Note: Figures used are maximum amounts if players were to play every game.
Click to expand...
There is no way the club will be so insulting , nor stupid enough , to offer Cotchin $300k , he will be our highest paid player when his next contract is signed and I would guess will be above $750k , probably a 40% discount on what other clubs will offer . People suggesting anything under are forgetting that Scully , despite going to a new franchise , got a mill and his old man $150k a year and there is a fair bit of difference in ability .
Furthermore the lastest of our bigger signings , being Lids , has pretty much set the benchmark .
At a guess
Cotchin $ 750
Jack $ 600 k
Lids $ 600 k
Martin $ 500
 
"Roar Passion" said:
There is no way the club will be so insulting , nor stupid enough , to offer Cotchin $300k , he will be our highest paid player when his next contract is signed and I would guess will be above $750k , probably a 40% discount on what other clubs will offer . People suggesting anything under are forgetting that Scully , despite going to a new franchise , got a mill and his old man $150k a year and there is a fair bit of difference in ability .
Furthermore the lastest of our bigger signings , being Lids , has pretty much set the benchmark .
At a guess
Cotchin $ 750
Jack $ 600 k
Lids $ 600 k
Martin $ 500
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If we weren't to target Cloke, I could see us selling the Geelong system and having no one on higher than Lids. That will be an easier sell than if we pay Cloke big money.
 
Not for us! If we get him now we will have success in the next 2 years, but at what cost the following years when our superstars are coming off contract? Too much to lose going forward for the price he is demanding.
NO NO NO please NO!
 
"Roar Passion" said:
Thats provided we and the market place see lids equal or our most valuable commodity ?
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Depends. Geelong had a limit of about 550-600 where no one got higher and the players bought into it until Ablett got a ridiculous offer. Cats refused to offer even Ablett more than the 600k. It's still a good pay cheque for a good player and hopefully our players buy into something similar.
 

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Harmichael said:
Our cap space and what the likes of Cotchin, Martin & Jack are on now is totally irelevant. It's what their their next contracts will cost. Saying we have X amount left for Cloke based on current salaries is a bit of a straw man argument IMO.
Click to expand...

Only to a certain extent. It is my understanding that contracts can be heavily front ended. If we have $1.2 mil spare next year we could give Cloke all of that, then in the following year pay him $1 mil, then $750k, then $600K etc. So that When Martin/Cotchin/Reiwoldt come out of contract Cloke would be only on say 750/600k for that year..maybe less. Just depends on who comes out of contract at what time and how much Cloke is prepared to take. There is no excuse to not spend as much as the cap as you can every year. Think about it. If we dont use 1.2mil next year we just miss that opportunity.

Having said that, this is all conditional on what the other players morale would be like bringing in a guy from another club. It could go both ways. They could see it as insulting to them and the group and want more money themselves or they could welcome it and put it down to the price of success.
 
RT73 said:
For those wondering how we might fit in Cloke, here is how I reckon we might go about it.

Salary Cap for 2013 is $9.139 million, the minimum we have to pay is $8.682 million. Using the player list below I'm going to try and give an example of how our players may be paid.
#2 Dylan Grimes: $200k
#3 Brett Deledio: $600k
#4 Dustin Martin: $400k
#6 Shaun Grigg: $330K
#7 Matt Dea: $150K
#8 Jack Riewoldt: $500k
#9 Trent Cotchin: $300k
#10 Shane Edwards: $200k
#11 Jake Batchelor: 150k
#12 David Astbury: $175k
#14 Bachar Houli: $330k
#17 Chris Newman: $450k - 50% counts to cap if veteran listed.
#18 Alex Rance: $200K
#20 Ivan Maric: $250k
#21 Shane Tuck: $250k
#23 Daniel Jackson: $250k
#24 Ben Griffiths: $150k
#25 Angus Graham: $150k
#26 Robin Nahas: $200k
#28 Jake King: $175k
#29 Tyrone Vickery: $200k
#30 Reece Conca: $150k
#32 Bradley Helbig: $100k
#37 Jayden Post: $100k
#38 Steven Morris: $150k
#39 Tom Derickx: $90k
#40 Kelvin Moore: $150k
#41 Nathan Foley: $250k
#42 Brandon Ellis: $130k
#43 Todd Elton: $130k
#44 Matthew Arnot: $85k
#45 Brett O'Hanlon: $65k

Total: $7 million for 32 senior listed players.
Add 7 rookies at $50k each = $7.35m
6 new draftees total $560k = $7.91m*

Leaves $772k to $1.229mil in cap space.

That would be enough to go after Cloke if we wanted to, especially if we veteran listed Newman which would add another $225k to those figures. In fact with that we could go after Cloke and say Chaplin


*Note: Figures used are maximum amounts if players were to play every game.
Click to expand...

Have you already nominated the delistings RT? No White, Maguane, Graham, A.Marric, Browne, Miller, McDonald, Webberly

Do you have some inside info on those figures or is it all just guesswork?
If those figures were $25k out each we're getting close to the limit.
But I think we were front ending a few contracts so that would leave some space. But then again Cotchin, Martin, Rance, Maric, Foley, Vickery, Conca contracts will be coming up for renewal/extensions/upgrades.
Plus for the number of delistings, you'd have to determine wages for ND selections (min wage plus game day wage), any trades eg Chaplin would be on a few hundred g's. I wouldn't think there would be quite such an amount left for Cloke, or if there is, it will make things tight for a few years. I know the tpp goes up, but you'd expect a few contracts to get fatter as we improve.
 
RT73 said:
IMO Cotchin would be on that sort of coin at the moment because of the injuries, Grigg and Houli were on that sort of money because it was needed to get them away from their previous clubs. Also forgot about the change to the vets list so thanks for reminding me.
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i remember at the time cotch signed he was courted by all clubs so i think that may have inflated his price. either way we have to factor in a huge increase in price.
 
tigs2010 said:
If we weren't to target Cloke, I could see us selling the Geelong system and having no one on higher than Lids. That will be an easier sell than if we pay Cloke big money.
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this is correct. cc said if it sits within a salary model we will look at cloke. imo he doesnt so we wont go after him. this is inline what you said about the geelong model, so i would think we would have a scale system and 600/700k is the top $ reserved for lids cotch and jack. dusty is nowhere near this level yet imo.
 
"Roar Passion" said:
There is no way the club will be so insulting , nor stupid enough , to offer Cotchin $300k , he will be our highest paid player when his next contract is signed and I would guess will be above $750k , probably a 40% discount on what other clubs will offer . People suggesting anything under are forgetting that Scully , despite going to a new franchise , got a mill and his old man $150k a year and there is a fair bit of difference in ability .
Furthermore the lastest of our bigger signings , being Lids , has pretty much set the benchmark .
At a guess
Cotchin $ 750
Jack $ 600 k
Lids $ 600 k
Martin $ 500
Click to expand...
Based on those figures we're committing over 25% of our cap space to just 4 players. If we do that we're setting ourselves up for trouble in the years to come as other kids start to come good and look for their fair share of the pie. Assuming Deledio is on the $600k that I've put for him, unless we land Cloke I wouldn't be paying anyone more than that at this stage. Remember Deledio is a 2 time B&F winner and an 8 year veteran who has earnt that sort of deal. Cotchin Martin and Jack as good as they maybe aren't worth the money you've given them at this stage.

For mine I would be looking at getting them on 2-3 year deals for an average $450k per year max. That would pay them well for what they have produced and gives us room to move in the future when the cap increases and their onfield results are demanding of being paid top dollar. The other thing I would be explaining to them for offering them this amount is that with guys like Rance Grimes Ellis Conca & Vickery coming out of contract we need to be able to keep them if this team is going to deliver on what we've set out to achieve. I'd also be explaining that with them taking this sort of coin it would give us the ability to be active in the free agent market as well.

BTW with Cotchins $300k, that is what I would have him on now heading into the final year of his current deal, which is about right given that he was coming of injury concerns when that deal would have been signed. A 50% increase heading into his new deal is nothing to be sneezed at. It would also give us room to move in 2-3 years time where we could then give him another 50% increase and pay him around $600k per season as he enters the prime of his career.
 

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Travis Cloke

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