Travis Cloke

[Ned_Flanders]

If Cloke costs us Nahas and Batch, is it worth it?

If Cloke helped deliver the ultimate glory, is it worth it?[/quote]

So how low are you prepared to go? Rance? Conca? Richmonds problem has been selling our future for he hope of a short cut to success. Cloke WOULD be a good get if we didn't have to off lad young talent to fit him in the cap.

Again, it's all irrelevant, because all reports have us out of the game Because his asking price is above what we are prepared to offer

 

[Rustof]

Did I read somewhere Graham and McGuane are on around 300-400k a year?

There's your money.

I'm torn...

On one hand I don't want anyone earning more than ~600k... But on the other hand a Cloke, Riewoldt and Vickey forward line would do some SERIOUS damage.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Did I read somewhere Graham and McGuane are on around 300-400k a year?

There's your money.

I'm torn...

On one hand I don't want anyone earning more than ~600k... But on the other hand a Cloke, Riewoldt and Vickey forward line would do some SERIOUS damage.

They are on massively front ended contracts from what I've been told. Are on SFA now.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

If Cloke helped deliver the ultimate glory, is it worth it?

So how low are you prepared to go? Rance? Conca? Richmonds problem has been selling our future for he hope of a short cut to success. Cloke WOULD be a good get if we didn't have to off lad young talent to fit him in the cap.

Again, it's all irrelevant, because all reports have us out of the game Because his asking price is above what we are prepared to offer[/quote]
I hear you and it is more than likely irrelevant, I just find it staggering how many people say he is rubbish when is a proven game changer.
And I can't help but think the impact he would have at the Tiges on and off the field.. Again, irrelevant.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

Richmonds problem has been selling our future for he hope of a short cut to success.

Wouldn't you go as far as to say there are some very significant foundations that have been laid by March & Gale, the club is undeniably in a strong position and the "war chest" has been created to "land a big fish?".
If it is not Cloke, fair enough, I can live with that.. But as a club lets set our sights high targeting gun recruits that add CLASS.
Previous failures of trading burns deep with all Tigers supporters, however our footy dept has full time recruiters and the like, we are no longer shooting blindly.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I hear you and it is more than likely irrelevant, I just find it staggering how many people say he is rubbish when is a proven game changer.
And I can't help but think the impact he would have at the Tiges on and off the field.. Again, irrelevant.

To be fair he was on Hooker, McGuane would look good against him

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Richmonds problem has been selling our future for he hope of a short cut to success.

Wouldn't you go as far as to say there are some very significant foundations that have been laid by March & Gale, the club is undeniably in a strong position and the "war chest" has been created to "land a big fish?".
If it is not Cloke, fair enough, I can live with that.. But as a club lets set our sights high targeting gun recruits that add CLASS.
Previous failures of trading burns deep with all Tigers supporters, however our footy dept has full time recruiters and the like, we are no longer shooting blindly.

Actually this is wrong, it's not all about a big fish. The number one priority re: free agency was to prepare for it, and this means retaining our own talent. March re-emphasized this the other day, when he said we would only pay for Cloke as much as we could afford AFTER budgeting to secure our existing young talent.

Free agency is a dual edged sword, and defending against other clubs attacks is just as important as exploiting it. Having the cash from the FTF means if a club makes a play for Deledio (just as a relevant example from this year), we have the capacity to pay up to 100% of the cap to keep him at the club.

 

[THE_GUN]

Playing against a sh!t Team with a sh!t midfield,The ball getting pumped in there from
Swan,Pendlebury,Thomas,Sidebottom,Beams etc etc etc etc

And the Dud Hooker playing on him ......................... Now he is a STAR !!

Give me a Break, If he can average 4 goals a game in the finals this year - I will eat my words

 

[Stylo]

To be fair he was on Hooker, McGuane would look good against him

Hurley took him in the 2nd half and he at least broke even, probably beat him.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

March re-emphasized this the other day, when he said we would only pay for Cloke as much as we could afford AFTER budgeting to secure our existing young talent.

OK, this I had not heard. If the priority of the FTF is to secure the existing talent by March and the board, then I am all for it. There must be some mid list talent on decent coin. Please no one bring up McGuane or Graham, I've heard all about that!

 

[tigerdan]

Just on the point that gets raised all the time about $$$ getting freed up when other players retire...

You don't think this 'free' cash has already been budgeted for in future years? Yeah we might get $400k available when his contract finishes but we might have already spent it for (say) Cothin the year after.

The only way you can get free money like that is if you don't re-sign a player that you expected to.

Likewise, the 'spare' money in the cap might have been budgeted to increase to closer to 100% in following years. Unfortunatley for us, none of us actually know who gets paid what (and rightly so) so it's really a futile exercise to try and work out how much $ we can offer Cloke (or anyone else).

 

[_RT_]

16 contested marks , 5 goals 2 tonight.
Nah we don't want him at Richmond. Lol.

Yeah, anyone who says we shouldn't chase him has no idea.

Would propel us to top 6, maybe higher.

As Mark Robinson said last night, a good game against crap opposition and ferals will be falling over themselves saying that Cloke is a star again. If he stinks it up against the Hawks next week everyone will be back to saying that he stinks.

 

[Bazzar]

As Mark Robinson said last night, a good game against crap opposition and ferals will be falling over themselves saying that Cloke is a star again. If he stinks it up against the Hawks next week everyone will be back to saying that he stinks.

Yes Robbo, the great Robbo, the bloke everyone pots until his opinion agrees with theirs.
And i didnt hear to many complaining about Deledio, Cotchin, Tuck and Marics game last week when we played the same opposition.

Back page of the Hun said it all.

HE'S BACK
16 marks,
20 kicks,
5 goals
1 giant headache for
7 teams.

At least we have those two superstars Chaplin and Knights on the way, who needs someone like Cloke.

 

[spark12]

As Mark Robinson said last night, a good game against crap opposition and ferals will be falling over themselves saying that Cloke is a star again. If he stinks it up against the Hawks next week everyone will be back to saying that he stinks.

Seriously Robbo !!!

 

[spark12]

Yes Robbo, the great Robbo, the bloke everyone pots until his opinion agrees with theirs.
And i didnt hear to many complaining about Deledio, Cotchin, Tuck and Marics game last week when we played the same opposition.

Back page of the Hun said it all.

HE'S BACK
16 marks,
20 kicks,
5 goals
1 giant headache for
7 teams.

At least we have those two superstars Chaplin and Knights on the way, who needs someone like Cloke.

Exactly mate good post, shits me when people bring what teams they are playing etc. If anyone may have watched the game the bummers were what 5 points down at 3/4 and were 100% improvement on what they have dished up the last 4 weeks.
The bloke hit some form and played a good game last night , quite simple really.

 

[Bazzar]

Seriously Robbo !!!

But Robbo is the doyen of all things football. Everyone knows that.

 

[Barnzy]

As Mark Robinson said last night, a good game against crap opposition and ferals will be falling over themselves saying that Cloke is a star again. If he stinks it up against the Hawks next week everyone will be back to saying that he stinks.

1 game doesn't change anything for me (by the way are you calling me a feral? ). Even in poor form I was saying we should get him.

Quality doesn't dissapear overnight so no matter what happens in finals I want Cloke. I know he'd make us significantly better and if we can get him at the cost of no draft picks for a price that would allow us to keep our other guns then we'd be stupid not to chase it up, actually incompetent is the better word. Proven gun CHF's don't grow on trees and that just happens to be probably one of the biggest weaknesses in the side.

ps. quoting what bogan Robbo says as fact? Seriously?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

OK, this I had not heard. If the priority of the FTF is to secure the existing talent by March and the board, then I am all for it. There must be some mid list talent on decent coin. Please no one bring up McGuane or Graham, I've heard all about that!

They way to look at this is what players are we getting rid of, and what players are we committed to bringing in:

These are my assumptions purely to fill the excercise:

MacDonald - on first contract
Connors - been on warnings for a while, I'd be guessing around 200-300k
Miller - rookie on match payments, guessing 200k at absolute tops
Moore - depends of if he got base contract or match payments for most his pay, but let's assume 350k
Webberley - unlikely to be much above base
Dreickx - first contract
Helsin - first contract
Maric - saved your arse rookie contract
white - guessing around $250
McGuane - had a heavy front loaded contract i believe, this is last year
Graham - has a year left, contract will have to be paid out, but heavily front loaded I believe

So, next we need to look at who we are bring in. Again values are my estimates, just using the reported amounts our previous trades cost us (and remember average wage is mid 200k these years, inc rookies in the calculation)

Chaplin - $350k (takes Moores dollars)
Knights - $300k (takes Connors dollars)
Russell - $250k (takes Whites dollars)

Then we have our first round pick, two second round picks, a third round pick, a psd pick, and rookies to replace Miller and Helsin (MacDonald, Webberley, Derickx, Miller divided by two, and Helsin and Maric).

Then we need to pay out Graham's contract, so lets assume that neutralizes itself out (his 2012 saving is what we we have paid him in 2013).

So this leaves us with what we have left from McGuane last year of contract, plus the $600k we may be under the cap, plus the $400k from the cap increase, so let's assume that's $1.1m. Now you're saying this means we can afford Cloke, but we now need to pay for the pay rises we have agreed to. From a quick search of the Internet, we have re-signed the following:

Edwards
Houli
Morris
Deledio
Foley

Now let's assume Deledio went up $200-300k, Edwards $50k, Morris $100k (would have been on base contract), and Foley and Houli maintained the status quo.

Newman has $100k moving to the vets arrangements, but we are still yet to sign Tuck, and I'm not sure on the contract status of post, Astbury, and Griffiths, but let's assume any of this lot eat into Newmans saving.

This takes out $350k-450k, bringing your Cloke budget down to $650-750k, which is below his asking price, and gives us no buffer for further increasing wages for 2014. Yes the cap is up 4%, but most of this will be eaten by contracts to Cotchin, Reiwoldt, Martin and Rance. This leaves us nothing for Grimes, Conca, Helbig, Nahas, Dea, Batchelor, Ellis, Elton, Arnot, and O'Hanlon (assuming no change for Grigg, Jackson, or King), and we would be looking at $500k+ extra minimum being needed to keep these boys happy.

 

[Bazzar]

Russell - $250k (takes Whites dollars)

Would have White any day of the week over Russell

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Would have White any day of the week over Russell

I had Russell in purely on the rumours. Be it him or someone else, we are rumoured to be into up to 4 FA pick ups this year.

I wouldn't be surprised if White survives, but I took him out to give a bit more to the Cloke budget. The next candidate would be Post.

Main purpose of the excercise though is to show the contract tsunami we are looking at next year. Reckon we may be feeding out $1m+ in pay rises (assuming no big defections), which means we need to keep the 2013 budget as low as possible.

 

[Bazzar]

White will survive unless a trade is done. I like White as a depth player, elite speed and endurance and kicks a great goal, and although primarily an outside player never shirks a hard contest.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

They way to look at this is what players are we getting rid of, and what players are we committed to bringing in:

Nice compilation 74, that's a great snapshot of where we are at. And I think most of your figures would be accurate. As I said earlier, I'm happy we aren't throwing everything a Cloke, it sounds we have inquired at a certain price... Do you think we would budge if it was a minimal extra amount toget the deal over the line?

Is anyone else hearing Cloke snr has a real issue with Malthouse in regards to the way Jason was treated at the pies and is encouraging Trav to get to the Tiges?

 

[The full package]

I don't like 1 million dollar per year contracts, when you get a player like that all you look for "is he worth it" and some one like Cloke doesn't seem to carry these expectations that well. His season has been OK but nothing great since the media have had the spot light on him. I think he would create to much unwanted attention that would effect the whole club. I would rather keep finding good medium players ready to shine.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Nice compilation 74, that's a great snapshot of where we are at. And I think most of your figures would be accurate. As I said earlier, I'm happy we aren't throwing everything a Cloke, it sounds we have inquired at a certain price... Do you think we would budge if it was a minimal extra amount toget the deal over the line?

Is anyone else hearing Cloke snr has a real issue with Malthouse in regards to the way Jason was treated at the pies and is encouraging Trav to get to the Tiges?

I don't think we will budge, been very firm we have a budget and need to maintain it to keep our current players

 

[TheTigerArmy]

White will survive unless a trade is done. I like White as a depth player, elite speed and endurance and kicks a great goal, and although primarily an outside player never shirks a hard contest.

Can never doubt his commitment..bleeds black&Yellow