Bumped Travis Varcoe (see #32)

[Magpie Ink]

Needs a big year after the haters were probably right about him in 2016. Average.

Was quite shocked to see you weren't among the doubters in the original thread.

As a serial Troll that's known as dodging a bullet

 

[Mkcaptain]

Apologies for my ignorance but what does the #32 mean in the thread title?

 

[jmac70]

Apologies for my ignorance but what does the #32 mean in the thread title?

It's the number of my bumped post. The Mods put that in the title.

 

[Mkcaptain]

It's the number of my bumped post. The Mods put that in the title.

Thanks. I knew I was missing something very obvious

 

[Black_White]

Varcoe is one of the rare ones who decided to prove a point and not just pad out the retirement fund.
Good for him, good for us.

 

[mike123]

Hope we don't waste him in the forward pocket this year

 

[Hong Kong Pie]

Hope we don't waste him in the forward pocket this year

This and an injury-free year is what i'd like to see with Varcs in 2017. When he is in red-hot form, he can roam anywhere from the backline forwards, using his pace to create crucial link ups, and his tackling skills to strike fear into any opposition ball holders. Arguably the best tackler in our team, with zip and x-factor.
Hoping he has a massive season ahead.

 

[PicaBoo]

This and an injury-free year is what i'd like to see with Varcs in 2017. When he is in red-hot form, he can roam anywhere from the backline forwards, using his pace to create crucial link ups, and his tackling skills to strike fear into any opposition ball holders. Arguably the best tackler in our team, with zip and x-factor.
Hoping he has a massive season ahead.

If he is the best tackler, why not have him up fwd? Add Mayne and that manic pressure of trapping the ball in opp half might actually come off.

 

[mike123]

If he is the best tackler, why not have him up fwd? Add Mayne and that manic pressure of trapping the ball in opp half might actually come off.

Because one tacking is an ability that useful all over the field not just the forward line, two a forwards job is to kick goals and Varcoe doesn't do enough of that and three Varcoe best asset is his run and carry which is more effective in the backline and on the wing. I don't mind Varcoe resting forward on occasion he can still snap the odd goal but he doesn't do it consistently to warrant him playing a whole game up forward.

We need goal kickers up forward not tacklers.

 

[pablo disco bar]

GUN

 

[PicaBoo]

Because one tacking is an ability that useful all over the field not just the forward line, two a forwards job is to kick goals and Varcoe doesn't do enough of that and three Varcoe best asset is his run and carry which is more effective in the backline and on the wing. I don't mind Varcoe resting forward on occasion he can still snap the odd goal but he doesn't do it consistently to warrant him playing a whole game up forward.

We need goal kickers up forward not tacklers.

1) Don't play him too deep. And he can cover a lot of ground.
The ease with which the ball got out of the fwd half costs us more then lack of pressure in the back lines. Let the opposition hurry their kicks, with Howe and hopefully the Berg we got some great intercept marking options.
2) We got some reinforcements in the fwd line with Elliott and Mayne See above. If the system pays off, individual stats will sort themselves out.
3) Play players to their personal strengths or best team interests? I am for the latter and we can always swing him back if the situation calls for it.

 

[Hong Kong Pie]

If he is the best tackler, why not have him up fwd? Add Mayne and that manic pressure of trapping the ball in opp half might actually come off.

With Mayne there now, and possibly KK later in the year if he shows early signs, my personal view is that Varcoe can really impact games more regularly if he has more space to roam and be able to follow the ball or ball carrier more closely. So whether it be a ball-up on the half back line, or a rushed kick coming out of our forward line, he can use his speed, endurance and tackling to frighten the hell out of oppenents wondering if he's bearing down on them from any direction. Trav is not a huge possession winner, but if he can regularly get 20-ish possessions around the ground like this, it would be a massive plus for us as a team.

 

[PicaBoo]

With Mayne there now, and possibly KK later in the year if he shows early signs, my personal view is that Varcoe can really impact games more regularly if he has more space to roam and be able to follow the ball or ball carrier more closely. So whether it be a ball-up on the half back line, or a rushed kick coming out of our forward line, he can use his speed, endurance and tackling to frighten the hell out of oppenents wondering if he's bearing down on them from any direction. Trav is not a huge possession winner, but if he can regularly get 20-ish possessions around the ground like this, it would be a massive plus for us as a team.

Mayne absolutely. KK perhaps but you forgot our gentle giant Rupert who tackles well although not as dynamic as the others.
I hear what you and mike123 are saying about giving him space to roam and hunt. With Elliott, WHE and Mayne having to fit at the expense of Blair, Crocker and ???? , Varcoe up there as well probably not going to happen on a regular basis and more as tactical switch during the game

 

[mike123]

1) Don't play him too deep. And he can cover a lot of ground.
The ease with which the ball got out of the fwd half costs us more then lack of pressure in the back lines. Let the opposition hurry their kicks, with Howe and hopefully the Berg we got some great intercept marking options.
2) We got some reinforcements in the fwd line with Elliott and Mayne See above. If the system pays off, individual stats will sort themselves out.
3) Play players to their personal strengths or best team interests? I am for the latter and we can always swing him back if the situation calls for it.

I'd be ok with Varcoe playing up forward if giving free reign to go up the field, something he wasn't given most of last season but then I'd prefer Sidebottom role. Its also not a matter of being up the field more its also how he uses his leg speed. Down back he can start a counter attack then use his ability to cover ground to link up in the chain again or make space for someone else. Up forward its harder to that as he starts of running towards the opposition goals not our goals and then has to to a wide turn. Its something that almost never gets mentioned but I find he has poor agility for a bloke his size. His fine in straight lines and his side step is fine when running at full speed but when he has to turn 90 degrees he takes his time. His lack of agility also hurts his ability to kick goals in traffic. Unless he can get the snap off straight away he's not agile enough to work through traffic to get the snap off. As opposed to Sidebottom or Pendlebury who can think their way through traffic then get a shot off.

The best way to ensure the opposition don't go straight to the other is to kick a goal when you enter the forward line and the easiest way to to that is to that is to have midfielders and half backs that can deliver the ball and have forwards who can get into dangerous spaces and kick goals, if that that doesn't work then pressure comes into play, when you don't have the ball you pressure the opposition, it shouldn't be a specialised role it should just be what our do when the opposition have the ball. Fasolo and Elliott aren't exempt from forward pressure. Just because their forte is goal kicking doesn't mean they'll refuse to chase. With Howe and Berg intercepting I'd argue its less important to tackle as if the opposition get past our forward line they still got Berg, Howe and Reid to get through. Whether down back if an opposition player breaks a tackle he's going straight for goal.

When the system was paying individual stats don't matter but the system hasn't been paying off in the past. What we've ended up with is the ball stuck in our forward line for long periods of time but we're unable to capitalise on it, the opposition do struggle to get the ball out but when they do they waltz through to the goals easily. Its what cost us in the Fremantle and Hawthorn games in 2015. They're also arguably Varcoe's best games for club and he played down back.

I agree play players to benefit the team the most, I just don't see how playing guys up forward who don't kick goals benefit the team. Sentence also applies to Blair, Goldsack and may apply to Mayne seeing how he goes next year. I also think our side looked better when Varcoe went down back and gave some run and carry we've been crying out for since we've lost Davis, Shaw and Lumumba. I see what you're saying its good to have forwards who can put on pressure its why Cyril is such a gun because he hurts the opposition both ways but first and foremost forwards have to kick goals then worry about the opposition not the other way around. Its also an area of Fasolo's game that I think has massively improved but underrated around here and when he gets someone he also makes them feel it too. I'd love Varcoe up forward if he was dangerous option up forward but he's not that anymore, and his chasing is becoming less effective too as the opposition caught on and sheppard him at every turn.

 

[PicaBoo]

I'd be ok with Varcoe playing up forward if giving free reign to go up the field, something he wasn't given most of last season but then I'd prefer Sidebottom role. Its also not a matter of being up the field more its also how he uses his leg speed. Down back he can start a counter attack then use his ability to cover ground to link up in the chain again or make space for someone else. Up forward its harder to that as he starts of running towards the opposition goals not our goals and then has to to a wide turn. Its something that almost never gets mentioned but I find he has poor agility for a bloke his size. His fine in straight lines and his side step is fine when running at full speed but when he has to turn 90 degrees he takes his time. His lack of agility also hurts his ability to kick goals in traffic. Unless he can get the snap off straight away he's not agile enough to work through traffic to get the snap off. As opposed to Sidebottom or Pendlebury who can think their way through traffic then get a shot off.

The best way to ensure the opposition don't go straight to the other is to kick a goal when you enter the forward line and the easiest way to to that is to that is to have midfielders and half backs that can deliver the ball and have forwards who can get into dangerous spaces and kick goals, if that that doesn't work then pressure comes into play, when you don't have the ball you pressure the opposition, it shouldn't be a specialised role it should just be what our do when the opposition have the ball. Fasolo and Elliott aren't exempt from forward pressure. Just because their forte is goal kicking doesn't mean they'll refuse to chase. With Howe and Berg intercepting I'd argue its less important to tackle as if the opposition get past our forward line they still got Berg, Howe and Reid to get through. Whether down back if an opposition player breaks a tackle he's going straight for goal.

When the system was paying individual stats don't matter but the system hasn't been paying off in the past. What we've ended up with is the ball stuck in our forward line for long periods of time but we're unable to capitalise on it, the opposition do struggle to get the ball out but when they do they waltz through to the goals easily. Its what cost us in the Fremantle and Hawthorn games in 2015. They're also arguably Varcoe's best games for club and he played down back.

I agree play players to benefit the team the most, I just don't see how playing guys up forward who don't kick goals benefit the team. Sentence also applies to Blair, Goldsack and may apply to Mayne seeing how he goes next year. I also think our side looked better when Varcoe went down back and gave some run and carry we've been crying out for since we've lost Davis, Shaw and Lumumba. I see what you're saying its good to have forwards who can put on pressure its why Cyril is such a gun because he hurts the opposition both ways but first and foremost forwards have to kick goals then worry about the opposition not the other way around. Its also an area of Fasolo's game that I think has massively improved but underrated around here and when he gets someone he also makes them feel it too. I'd love Varcoe up forward if he was dangerous option up forward but he's not that anymore, and his chasing is becoming less effective too as the opposition caught on and sheppard him at every turn.

Thanks for the lengthy response, much appreciated. For that breakout speed and link up role I had Sinclair in mind. Providing he doesn't get knocked out again. Or do you think we could play both of them.
Re Sidebottom, I thought word on the street was that Pendles was going to play more forward next year. Sidebottom can run all day, it would make sense to have him cover most of the ground.
Fasolo won us that Richmond game with his pressure. Certainly learned from his VFL stint ( unlike some other fwd no longer with us ). Elliott I have to see how he comes back but let's hope for the best. This year will be such an upgrade to our Fasolo/Moore based attack when Elliott and WHE are thrown in the mix and Wells in the line behind them.