Opinion Travis Varcoe

[meto]

chris on sen earlier said he has faith in trav and that he will have a full preseason and be better for it.

here is your new home (dont let the door hit ya on the way out):
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/melbourne-storm-2013-thread.985676/

You're as delusional as the rest of the Varcoe supporters club on this forum, he's had 11-12 weeks to perform and you still deny, deny, if this guy keeps getting games for squat, GFC is doomed next season.
And you'll be as you were last night deserving.

 

[joe444]

Well, who needs another post after all that?

My take. We gambled on Varcoe and should have given up on it a few weeks' back. He wasn't at full form, fitness or confidence. It was a puzzling decision to retain him given there were so many pushing/demanding selection from one of the most dominant VFL sides of all time.

Was he going to kick that goal? Never. In 2011, yes. But last week we saw a preview.

This is a loss which will 'stick' for a while. Sadly, just like 2008 in some ways (selection issues, persistence with clearly inadequate set-ups, failure to learn from previous losses). Just like 2008, there was actually a flag beckoning last night.

But, unlike 2008, the season they put in didn't really merit a premiership. I just believe we'd have won it.

So often, flags are created on the back of miserable lost chances. The club is now haunted and hurt again. I hope they're burning for redemption. After all, it's just about their worst finals capitulation ever (I'll have to look that up).

 

[David the Cat]

Mate....no premiership was beckoning for us this year. The Prelim?...look at the last quarter...4.8 to 1.1...thats 12 scoring shots to 2....32 shots to 22....I50's...a staggering 64-42...we were shot ducks in the last quarter...and frankly after today, I am quite happy for Hawthorn to play Freo....I couldn't see us beating them to be honest.

We have improved this year..we made a prelim and if you had asked me at the start of the year I probably would have taken that.....we blooded more of the next generation and we have seen signs of whats to come over the next few years with Guthrie, Caddy, Motlop, Vardy, and Murdoch all showing they belong at AFL level .....Hawkins was crippled all season...no ruckmen for the majority of the year... but we saw the difference Simpson makes to our game... fingers crossed for Menzel....a few more stand up from the VFL, ( Smedts, Kersten, Horlin-Smith, Thurlow, Stringer and Burbury come to mind ) and we pick up another good kid or mature age recruit.....things are looking pretty good for us.

Yes, there's work to do but to suggest we are haunted is a little ....well..pessimistic in my view. And if you think this is the worst finals capitulation ever....well mate, your either very young, or you have got a bad dose of Alzheimers.....there's a few blokes in here who could think of multiple performances in the last 20 years that leave this loss in the shade.

 

[meto]

No Premiership beckoning?...20 pts up at 3/4 time, you must be joking!

As for kids, if you think we blooded some this year...... they'll be dead set raw ones next year. That was a GF opportunity that was lost don't fool yourself.
Some so-called key players didn't or couldn't stand up, and that's about it, one of the problem players is Varcoe, they need to trade him quick.
He has proved and did prove today he's just not up to it!

 

[catman2006]

Bit harsh on Varcoe as he has had long run with injuries remember took Kelly few years to get form back from a broken leg, he just needs a good pre season and will find his pace and goal kicking skills again.

 

[you pick one]

Mate....no premiership was beckoning for us this year.

Have to agree with Meto here David 20 points up at 3/4 time we should have held on,but regardless a 5 point loss to the Hawks and 15 to the other G/F contender in the past 3 weeks to me says we were right in it up to our balls.

 

[joe444]

Mate....no premiership was beckoning for us this year.

We must have differing interpretations of finishing 2nd and being 20 points up against the 1st-placed team, then. You don't have to be perfect - or a replica of 2007 - to win a flag.

 

[Jon Douglas]

I agree with David. Sure the scoreboard said 20 points up in the last quarter - early on but look at the stats for not only that quarter but for the whole game.

If you read them without seeing the score line you would assume that the Hawks would have won by 6 + goals.

And you forget they would have believed they would run over us in the last quarter given the hard matches we have had and they had a week off.

They had a pretty much full and fresh list while we had Chappy, Enright and Simpson out and an injured KPF.

We have had issues with the rucks and midfield set up all year - so we were not going to be as good s we could have been. So yes we could have won it but it was unlikely. I think that is a fair assessment.

PS. The 2007 side had better personnel overall as well and we did not have the issues with key players out or hampered by injury.

 

[And_ROOS]

Yeah maybe if Freo had smashed us at home or Hawks had, but fact is they didnt and they never do. Hawks are ALWAYS an inaccurate team so Friday night was no surprise that they missed so many.
We were a chance. If Hawks get up early on Freo the nerves will kick in, Hawks wont take advantage of that but our team usually does. We blew a very good chance and i hope that spurs a few people on over preseason.

 

[Jon Douglas]

As far as Varcoe goes - yes fine to have our opinions about his performances. That is what the Board is all about.

My assessment (on reflection) is that the MC was hoping it would turn around and it just did not.

He really should have played more VFL footy and shown more form and built up more confidence before being reintroduced into the senior side. Especially while we had good performers in the VFL who deserved some senior game time. Yes a bad mistake but sometimes club's back in players they think are important to their finals hopes.

I cannot see then ever trading him - so I trust they just go back to basics and give him a good a pre-season - he gets fit - plays a number of VFL games and builds his confidence thru good performances and then comes back into the senior side. Not to do this could really hurt his career going forward as if he starts to believe he cannot play well again because he has more poor performances early in the season next year in the seniors - then it could become a long term issue.

I am sure he would be ok with having to play VFL and perform at that level before being recalled. To be treated like any other layer would that is going thru a rough patch in form.

I also think it is likely that if we did hypothetically trade him we would get maybe a round 2 pick - and that pick would not necessarily get us a better player than Varcoe - and would take say 2 years before they play seniors. So with all the time spent on getting Varcoe to where he is now - it would seem a better policy to keep him and put in place better management of him IMO.

 

[you pick one]

I agree with David. Sure the scoreboard said 20 points up in the last quarter - early on but look at the stats for not only that quarter but for the whole game.

If you read them without seeing the score line you would assume that the Hawks would have won by 6 + goals.

If the stats meant anything then the 2008 premiership flag would be flying high from the Reg Hickey Stand.

 

[meto]

As far as Varcoe goes - yes fine to have our opinions about his performances. That is what the Board is all about.

My assessment (on reflection) is that the MC was hoping it would turn around and it just did not.

He really should have played more VFL footy and shown more form and built up more confidence before being reintroduced into the senior side. Especially while we had good performers in the VFL who deserved some senior game time. Yes a bad mistake but sometimes club's back in players they think are important to their finals hopes.

I cannot see then ever trading him - so I trust they just go back to basics and give him a good a pre-season - he gets fit - plays a number of VFL games and builds his confidence thru good performances and then comes back into the senior side. Not to do this could really hurt his career going forward as if he starts to believe he cannot play well again because he has more poor performances early in the season next year in the seniors - then it could become a long term issue.

I am sure he would be ok with having to play VFL and perform at that level before being recalled. To be treated like any other layer would that is going thru a rough patch in form.

I also think it is likely that if we did hypothetically trade him we would get maybe a round 2 pick - and that pick would not necessarily get us a better player than Varcoe - and would take say 2 years before they play seniors. So with all the time spent on getting Varcoe to where he is now - it would seem a better policy to keep him and put in place better management of him IMO.

That's the issue mate, just where is he now???...."Nowhere"!... for the last couple of seasons and picking up a cool 450K, not bad work if you can get it!
Kept some good kids out as well.

His problem is,...he's a dud, this nonsense about confidence and believing in himself is crap of the highest order, check out the Dockers we need hard men like them to go with the good ones we have.

The club will be the poorer if he's maintained, both in the pocket and on the field.
From what I've seen this year we'd be dumb enough to give him 5yrs at 1/2 a mill!!.... some on here would say that was a great idea and move for the future, I'm certain of that!
Deluded.

 

[Claude Balls]

Well, who needs another post after all that?

My take. We gambled on Varcoe and should have given up on it a few weeks' back. He wasn't at full form, fitness or confidence. It was a puzzling decision to retain him given there were so many pushing/demanding selection from one of the most dominant VFL sides of all time.

Was he going to kick that goal? Never. In 2011, yes. But last week we saw a preview.

This is a loss which will 'stick' for a while. Sadly, just like 2008 in some ways (selection issues, persistence with clearly inadequate set-ups, failure to learn from previous losses). Just like 2008, there was actually a flag beckoning last night.

But, unlike 2008, the season they put in didn't really merit a premiership. I just believe we'd have won it.

So often, flags are created on the back of miserable lost chances. The club is now haunted and hurt again. I hope they're burning for redemption. After all, it's just about their worst finals capitulation ever (I'll have to look that up).

Agree on Varcoe, but not the rest. Nothing like 2008, and far, FAR, from a 'haunting' loss.

 

[ATSAM]

No not a haunting loss , a dam annoying one but given the loss of Chapman and Enright-one of them would have made a difference- we made a fist of it. We were worthy premiership contenders one game less than Hawthorn on the ladder and having beaten all of the top four teams five times we were very, very able. In the end injuries got us.
As for Varcoe he should have along talk to Hawkins about confidence and injury. Hawkins has put up with a lot this year -his injury and difficulty in contributing and all the crap in the papers about him. Varcoe has had none of that and to my knowledge has never been bronx cheered(if that really happened.
Unfortunately if he is relying on confidence then he is not an AFL footballer.

 

[Stoney]

That's the issue mate, just where is he now???...."Nowhere"!... for the last couple of seasons and picking up a cool 450K, not bad work if you can get it!
Kept some good kids out as well.

His problem is,...he's a dud, this nonsense about confidence and believing in himself is crap of the highest order, check out the Dockers we need hard men like them to go with the good ones we have.

The club will be the poorer if he's maintained, both in the pocket and on the field.
From what I've seen this year we'd be dumb enough to give him 5yrs at 1/2 a mill!!.... some on here would say that was a great idea and move for the future, I'm certain of that!
Deluded.

TV coming off a year without footy in 2012 (1 game), and then had a 3 month lay off during the yr with the shoulder in 2013. Not surprising that its been a couple of years since we've seen his best footy.

Now meto, I can only presume that your repetition is a tactic you're using to bore us all to death... but nonetheless, you've made your point, and barely anyone agrees with you.

 

[Jon Douglas]

If the stats meant anything then the 2008 premiership flag would be flying high from the Reg Hickey Stand.

Now that was a haunting loss - the worst loss in my fairly long history as a Cats supporter.

Should have won that won - and yes the stats say that. Stats, like anything, are not always everything - but they are pretty good indicators.

Hawks stole that Premiership and we would have stolen that Prelim IMO. It does happen as I stated - but not often. That is all I am saying. Yes we could have won it but it was an uphill battle and unlikely outcome given the stats on the day and other issues we had.

 

[Skerret]

Remember when Stoke was ordinary last year then hit A grade mid status this year? Varcoe will be fine.

 

[Jon Douglas]

That's the issue mate, just where is he now???...."Nowhere"!... for the last couple of seasons and picking up a cool 450K, not bad work if you can get it!
Kept some good kids out as well.

His problem is,...he's a dud, this nonsense about confidence and believing in himself is crap of the highest order, check out the Dockers we need hard men like them to go with the good ones we have.

The club will be the poorer if he's maintained, both in the pocket and on the field.
From what I've seen this year we'd be dumb enough to give him 5yrs at 1/2 a mill!!.... some on here would say that was a great idea and move for the future, I'm certain of that!
Deluded.

I am all for you having an opinion - and I could well be wrong and you right on this matter. Time will probably tell us that in the end.

I just do not think I am completely deluded (well just not yet but give it time I might get there yet !) when I say that Varcoe is not completely finished as a Cat player. And that certain players are more suspect to confidence issues than other players.

And I am pretty confident that GFC will not trade Varcoe - for good or bad. So we will just have to wait and see next season if Varcoe can re-establish himself as a senior footy player that adds something to our side. I just think if managed well and gets a good run with injury that is possible.

I do agree however with you that his time is somewhat limited now to prove this as you cannot afford to keep out young players out of the senior team who are playing well and not been given a senior game to show what they can do. And if it is accurate to keep paying $450,000 a year to someone who has not, for a variety of reasons, not been able to play to a senior standard for two years.

Yes I think we should expect more of our 100 + game players to influence a game - and Varcoe's performances over the latter half of the season were not in that category. But given he will be a Cat next season I am hoping with a better run with injuries and better management he can turn it around and become a decent player for us again.

Maybe I am dreaming ?

 

[The Casey Cat]

My assessment (on reflection) is that the MC was hoping...

In what was a reasonable year for us overall this is my major criticism. Too much hoping with certain players while others seem to have different rules and have killed it in the reserves all year only to watch us continue to 'hope' Varcoe and T Hunt could return to form. 'Hope' Hawkins could do something while injured. 'Hope' Walker could look like an AFL footballer. 'Hope' Smedts could do something mildly useful (when selected which was way too often) and 'hope' Vardy could ruck better than West.

Gotta cut that shit out from day dot next year.

 

[Jon Douglas]

In what was a reasonable year for us overall this is my major criticism. Too much hoping with certain players while others seem to have different rules and have killed it in the reserves all year only to watch us continue to 'hope' Varcoe and T Hunt could return to hope. 'Hope' Hawkins could do something while injured. 'Hope' Walker could look like an AFL footballer. 'Hope' Smedts could do something mildly useful (when selected which was way too often) and 'hope' Vardy could ruck better than West.

Gotta cut that shit out from day dot next year.

Hard to disagree that the club hoped too much his year. I think given Menzel, Simpson and Hmac missing - so given the history of our success the club took the view the players we had given us success would do it again.

So Varcoe was given too much time in the seniors to come good.

Smedts needs senior games but I think was given time over GHS - and that seems a bad decision to me - given out mids were not doing all that well.

THunt was given too much time on return to come good over GHS again.

Probably West should have played against Freo and Vardy forward rather than Walker.

But clubs make mistakes - they cannot always be right. They just need to learn from their mistakes.

Hopefully they will.

Still had we had just a bit more luck and Simpson, Enright and Chappy played against Freo and Hawks (full games) then we could be in a GF this year. So yes mistakes made but we were not so far off.

 

[joe444]

Wow, some of this is rubbish. Did you actually watch Vardy's last two games? When did Smedts get an unreasonable run of opportunities? When was T Hunt selected as anything but a fringe player?

 

[The Casey Cat]

Wow, some of this is rubbish. Did you actually watch Vardy's last two games?

I had little issue with Vardy in the side. He should have been playing forward for Hawkins though and West in the ruck with Tom ruled out mid season. Or even 2nd ruck ahead of Blitz.

When did Smedts get an unreasonable run of opportunities?

Whenever he got a game ahead of GHS, Kersten, Murdoch, Thurlow and Eardley which was most games he played.

When was T Hunt selected as anything but a fringe player?

Don't care what he as selected as he was persevered with for way too long. Then we reached the most important part of the season with him woefully out of form and had to play cut throat finals against the best teams with no tagger. Was stupid. Again should have been out for GHS months back.

 

[Partridge]

Bit harsh on Varcoe as he has had long run with injuries remember took Kelly few years to get form back from a broken leg, he just needs a good pre season and will find his pace and goal kicking skills again.

Kelly broke his leg in 2004, and missed the rest of that season. He played every game in 2005.

Varcoe has always had - and will always get - far too many excuses easily made for him. He had 12 games after being brought back. That's more than enough. Chapman missed as much footy, and a hamstring for a 30+ year old is just as worrisome, yet starred on return. I wonder why that is?

A. One of them has testicles. It isn't Varcoe.

 

[krisholio14]

Have I been teleported back to 2006?

We lose a PF to a bloody good football side by a kick when for all intents and purposes we are 'rebuilding', and now half our list are shit trucks who aren't up to it?

I don't care what sort of form Varcoe has been in. He's the sort of player who can turn a game in 5 minutes of football no matter how he's been performing, and i'd rather roll the dice on that than the alternative.

And what is the alternative? Always some kid who hasn't proven himself yet. So what if he comes in and is swallowed whole by a finals hardened unit with plenty to prove. I know what i'd be reading right now if that had happened.

Here's where we've been at as the year has gone on. Most of the old warriors are past their best, most of the kids aren't quite seasoned enough yet, and not only was our most important player not 100% fit, but there was also a group of players who were in good form early, got injured, then never recaptured that form as the year went on. Even despite all this, we weren't too far away at all.

And if we make the tough decisions in the off season, there is no reason we won't be there or thereabouts again next year.

 

[The Casey Cat]

I don't care what sort of form Varcoe has been in. He's the sort of player who can turn a game in 5 minutes of football no matter how he's been performing, and i'd rather roll the dice on that than the alternative.

You're right he can turn a game. Just think we spent a hell of a long time waiting for him to do that and would have had plenty of speed in the side without him come finals. He was woefully out of touch and confidence.

And what is the alternative? Always some kid who hasn't proven himself yet. So what if he comes in and is swallowed whole by a finals hardened unit with plenty to prove. I know what i'd be reading right now if that had happened.

Is a fair call. I'd say Murdoch and my main gripe far as he's concerned is that just as he had started to prove himself and have impact week in week out on and off the ball he was dropped. Thankfully returned in time for one final. Outside of that GHS would have been nice to tag a certain gun mid from the Hawks who got in nearly 40 times. Far as proving himself, well you know what he has done at AFL/VFL level.

And if we make the tough decisions in the off season, there is no reason we won't be there or thereabouts again next year.

Think most here agree with that Kris. We just have to be bold enough to make those decisions off season and selection wise next year. Some are just a bit frustrated we persevered with a select few too long who were badly injured or woefully out of form and confidence and feel it cost us. We definitely have the talent to step straight in and perform well enough to challenge again next year