Opinion Travis Varcoe

[meto]

I actually agree with this, we have too many "pacey" players and not enough ball winners.

Back in 07-11, we where one of the slowest sides, but we where one of the biggest and best contested teams. Pendlebury said after the 2011 GF, that Geelong just bumped the smaller pies team off the ball and wore them out in the second half, so they wanted to get bigger.

Now I don't mind some pace in the side, but Swans and Hawks are slow teams outside a couple of players each and they haven't done bad and it wasn't that bad for us in the past.

Now we have players that are able to run with mobility but don't win a lot of hard contested ball or clearances.

This post sums up Geelong in recent years!!!.......No more Lings or Rookes, both 189/95kg, Harley HBF193/95kg, where have they gone! It was a winning combo, now this is Freo!

 

[year of the cat]

This post sums up Geelong in recent years!!!.......No more Lings or Rookes, both 189/95kg, Harley HBF193/95kg, where have they gone! It was a winning combo, now this is Freo!

Good call Caro. Tall, big bodied mids are on the menu I think. Freo have a nice crop with Fyfe, Mundy, Barlow and Mzungo. We need to replace Corey, Bartel and Kelly with equivalent big bodied mids.

 

[Partridge]

Seriously, there's a reason I have 21k post on this forum, and not many in the last two years, and **** all of em on this board, and that's because the vast majority of you all are ******* idiots.

I'm sick of hearing your shit. You'll write someone off as soon as look at em, but as soon as they look half decent in the VFL you're on your knees with your mouths open.

All you GHS fanbois, would James Kelly or Joel Coey have pooed their pants a half dozen times in a VFL final lie he did iin the second level heat today?

All you wannabe armchair selectors got exposed today. Go forth and multiply.

Well for one thing, we'll need the help of H.G.Wells to answer that. See because the last time they were 20 years old was around 2002 and 2000 respectively. And I absolutely remember Corey being less than the warrior he is now in his first year. Very clearly. I also remember Kelly being in cruise control in 2005-2006, so much so the club told him to respect the game more. So neither of those guys have exactly been beyond criticism for their entire careers.

Either way, the choice is simple. You either recognise that time catches up with everyone - 100% of the time - and retire Corey with a shred of dignity, and realise Kelly might need to play some VFL next year. Or, you refuse to promote our most promising young midfielder, purely because he hasn't yet done what they have. Which is a bit difficult after a massive 11 games.

I know which way I'd go.

 

[Partridge]

This along with Walker's inclusion, I still can't get over. Was an absolute shocker along with the management of Hawkins all year and lack of contingency plan if he didn't get up which of course he didn't for our most important game of the year.

Actually, I was going to start a new thread on this.... But what happened to our player management this year? I thought we where supposed to rest players, I mean after we won 2011, we apparently lead the way on finals preparation. This year, we didn't look like we bothered at all.

I know Freo was close, but resting one or 2 players especially the older guys in the month up to finals did not happen, even after Freo rested 12 players vs Saints, I though a couple guys might be a late withdrawal...But didn't happen.

And for that reason, I've found it hard to pinpoint which of our snr players are really done and over the hill, or which one's where just too tired.

Does anyone else suspect that some selection decisions this year were based far more on personality than ability? Some just didn't make any sense at all. The one of Walker was insane - and he very predictably did nothing. All they had to do was push Vardy to the goal square and play West. Simple.

Chapman as sub - in his 250th no less - was and is mindboggling. He looked very, very good the week before against Brisbane. Playing Varcoe after one less than brilliant VFL outing, and keeping him in no matter what reinforced that further.

Scott has said for 2 years now they're being managed to play their best footy in September. And it's turned out to be hot air 2 years in a row. If the players were exhausted against Hawthorn its his own (and the match committee's) fault. They had their chance to play other players and wouldn't do it. They unfortunately did reap what they sowed.

 

[Partridge]

This post sums up Geelong in recent years!!!.......No more Lings or Rookes, both 189/95kg, Harley HBF193/95kg, where have they gone! It was a winning combo, now this is Freo!

No to mention the desperation and hunger they're playing with is so far above ours. Very unpleasant memories of 2010 to be honest.

 

[Partridge]

Next year they'll all be trying to play like Freo, it'll be no place for any fainthearted outside player,.................. and I agree we've gone small and soft run, run in our imaginations a far cry from the 06-07 days.
Same happened to our reserves yesterday, the opposition was to big to strong, just to hard.

Doubt it will happen at Geelong. Too many are still living off the past glories of 2011 and before. Ancient history now.

 

[Catters4me!]

Perspective is a wonderful word that comes to mind on many occasions in my life. Used to go to the footy and get angry, bitter and twisted. (Sounds like some of you on this thread) Used to blame everyone under the sun if Geelong lost, even my wife for ffs. Perspective and reality is needed with TV. He would be bitterly disappointed with his last month of footy, he just couldn't make it happen. He knows that, the coaching staff know that. TV will either be shot to bits and never be an AFL player again or he will rise above it, put in a great pre-season and be the player we all know he is capable of. He starts at zero again with all of us including the coaching staff ( they might even move him on) as he tries to rebuild the faith the club has put into him and to the fans who he has lost over the past month or so.

I know I am ready to put my 'hard earned' up again to sponsor him again next year. Any others out there like to join me?

 

[JUBJUB]

Seriously, there's a reason I have 21k post on this forum, and not many in the last two years, and **** all of em on this board, and that's because the vast majority of you all are ******* idiots.

All of us...ALL OF US ???

Not me of course

 

[magicmarker]

I think this is a bit of an over-reaction thread. By anyone's measure, Varcoe didn't have a great game or year. But on his day, Varcoe is a real difference maker, he can win a game for you, and I think the MC were happy to roll the dice on him and hope that he could suddenly turn around his form and get us home in a big game. It obviously didn't work out - I was as frustrated as anyone watching him fumble ball after ball, missed kicks etc, but given the layoff he has had I'm happy to cut the guy some slack and say that he'll be a better player next year.

There were a hundred other things that went wrong on the day that had as much affect on Friday's result as Varcoe's kick, and if he had nailed it we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Would I trade him? Well if a too-good-to-refuse offer came along you'd have to consider it given the improvement of Motlop and Murdoch who can play a similar role, but otherwise I'd keep him in the knowledge that we haven't seen the best of him yet...

 

[meto]

Doubt it will happen at Geelong. Too many are still living off the past glories of 2011 and before. Ancient history now.

We had the current Freo formula in 07, till we thought we needed to fix what wasn't broke....we'll go small and fast!..... but the game is won in the packs and the flooded areas, it's a tough and hard team that'll win out especially in finals.
AFL isn't the same as an Olympic 100mtrs, flooding means even more contested ball these days!

That's why the above post is laughable, Varcoe is useless against physicality, he's not able at AFL levels even VFL he only got 8 possessions, honestly he should be playing soccer!

Wells also has to consider the consequences recruiting all these light framed guys.

 

[Partridge]

We had the current Freo formula in 07, till we thought we needed to fix what wasn't broke....we'll go small and fast!..... but the game is won in the packs and the flooded areas, it's a tough and hard team that'll win out especially in finals.
AFL isn't the same as an Olympic 100mtrs, flooding means even more contested ball these days!

That's why the above post is laughable, Varcoe is useless against physicality, he's not able at AFL levels even VFL he only got 8 possessions, honestly he should be playing soccer!

Wells also has to consider the consequences recruiting all these light framed guys.

I absolutely understand you have to have a couple of players with extreme pace to get the ball in space. That's fine. I also get - with great reluctance - that most of the time they're going to be closer to Row Z than the centre circle. But at some point you have to put your head over the ball, put your body in, and get it yourself. Varcoe just doesn't do that. And if you can't do that, your disposal on the rare times you do get it has to be flawless. Varcoe's wasn't. And if you don't do that, you've at least got to be able to apply a lot of tackles.

Varcoe had 1 tackle. He didn't do that either.

 

[SJ]

He reminds me of an energetic dog chasing a footy, running full pelt at it and past it, then turns around and sprints back past it again, never actually making any impact but wasting a lot of effort in the mean time.

 

[Pivo]

He reminds me of an energetic dog chasing a footy, running full pelt at it and past it, then turns around and sprints back past it again, never actually making any impact but wasting a lot of effort in the mean time.

I shouldn't laugh but that is a pretty apt analogy for the back part of his year.

 

[Hoffy95]

I absolutely understand you have to have a couple of players with extreme pace to get the ball in space. That's fine. I also get - with great reluctance - that most of the time they're going to be closer to Row Z than the centre circle. But at some point you have to put your head over the ball, put your body in, and get it yourself. Varcoe just doesn't do that. And if you can't do that, your disposal on the rare times you do get it has to be flawless. Varcoe's wasn't. And if you don't do that, you've at least got to be able to apply a lot of tackles.

Varcoe had 1 tackle. He didn't do that either.

Agree with that.

If your game has distinct deficiencies in it, you obviously need to be better than average in other aspects to make up for it. There's not a lot of 'complete' players in the comp, but for those that have a profound weakness in one (or more) areas, they need to make up for it in others. If Varcoe isn't hitting targets and applying pressure there's not a lot left in his game that is of any worth. His tackling had been pretty good before the weekend, but his quality of disposal which was such a significant part of his game in the past has now eluded him and without it he isn't best 22 any more.

 

[vinum coupe]

It's quite simple.
He doesn't actually want the ball. He doesn't trust his skills, and doesn't want the responsibility.
I've seen Hawkins have low confidence, but TV is currently lower.

 

[Hoffy95]

It's quite simple.
He doesn't actually want the ball. He doesn't trust his skills, and doesn't want the responsibility.
I've seen Hawkins have low confidence, but TV is currently lower.

Hawkins has a legitimate reason though.

 

[vinum coupe]

Hawkins has a legitimate reason though.

I'm not talking about this year. I'm talking about a few years ago. Same went for Mooney actually.
But I dont think that they were even this low.

 

[bigfarter]

I'm not talking about this year. I'm talking about a few years ago. Same went for Mooney actually.
But I dont think that they were even this low.

Nah, Hawkins was never this bad. Mooney in early 2009 maybe. All you need to see re: Trav's confidence was the pained expression on his face after he missed that sitter goal against Port Adelaide. He genuinely looked like he didn't want to be there.

I still believe he has a place in the squad but he can't be just handed a spot next year. In fact, I'd have Murdoch in the 1s in Round 1 ahead of him.

 

[thecatattack]

Hawkins has a legitimate reason though.

Why doesn't Varcoe? How many injuries has Varcoe had the has caused him to miss pre-season training?

He even had shoulder surgery this year.

 

[Skerret]

He never looked like he felt he was part of the team, like he was unsure what his role was or where he fit in. Get him going from day 1, injury free and then we'll see. You have to be delicate with these rare talents.

 

[meto]

I absolutely understand you have to have a couple of players with extreme pace to get the ball in space. That's fine. I also get - with great reluctance - that most of the time they're going to be closer to Row Z than the centre circle. But at some point you have to put your head over the ball, put your body in, and get it yourself. Varcoe just doesn't do that. And if you can't do that, your disposal on the rare times you do get it has to be flawless. Varcoe's wasn't. And if you don't do that, you've at least got to be able to apply a lot of tackles.

Varcoe had 1 tackle. He didn't do that either.

The idea these days is all the players should be tough and hard, the speed factor is a fine line, it's more about recovery usually they don't carry very often beyond 4-5 mts, then it's a hand pass or the little kick to keep possession.

Barlow can run, Fyfe can run, Mayne can run, even Crowley can go all day and they're all 190cm and solid boys, something is very wrong if you play the full game with 9 possessions, Dream team 29pts, proves that you're a liability.......and he's one of our midfielders!!!!!

Varcoe's way to soft for our team if it's to be successful 2014, he had 12 weeks of favors and couldn't make good!.......that's enough imo!.... enough jogging circles!
CS you stuffed up badly backing this guy!

 

[Cattery]

Don't know what I find most annoying, the often completely over the top criticism from his detractors, or the embarrassing excuses trotted out by his supporters when trying to justify his poor games.

Fair dinkum, he's either a superstar just waiting to explode and take us to the promised land, or the worst player ever to wear the blue and white hoops, when the truth is he's neither, just a talented footballer who at his very best was still probably never more then our 15th best player, but still a valuable acquisition to the side.

Never should have been rushed into the side so fast this year, or persevered with as long as he was, but the blame for that lays squarely at the feet of the MC, not the player.

Should be at his peak about now, so with a full pre season under his belt and an injury free run you'd expect/hope he'll deliver big time next year, otherwise I think time is running out for him.

On reflection I'd probably be happy to see him traded if for no other reason then not having to put up with another year of threads like this, and a 95% reduction in output from one particular poster could only be a good thing surely.

 

[kanyewest]

He's also been completely correct for most of that time. Just most won't admit it.

That's right, he was completely correct in 2011 when he was calling TV piss weak and a liability the week before the GF. And voila, Varcoe goes on to kick three goals including one within the first 15 seconds of that game. Oh boy. At the end of the day, Varcoe's season has been below par, but the outrage directed at him is entirely over the top because it is an obsession. Before saying he is treated differently to other players, how about you assess the way you, meto and co always complain about him?

And for those thinking Freo has suddenly provided the new trend in how to play football, short memories much? St Kilda played the same way in 2009. It's Ross Lyon 101. Incidentally, the team they play this week don't seem to lack those 'fainthearted outside players', and had a pretty good year too. So perhaps just take a breather...

 

[Badtemperedbadger]

Doubt it will happen at Geelong. Too many are still living off the past glories of 2011 and before. Ancient history now.

Oh god here we go again, arrogant, living off the past, not playing the kids.
We'll all be doomed said Hanrahan.

Crickey three words, draft, salary cap.
In this age you draft and hope you picked correctly, which we probably have done better than the majority, then you try and keep,that wonderful mix together while financially bursting at the cap seams.

And still,they complain.

We are not perfect, nowhere near in fact, yet whenever I hear Scotty, Balme, Cooke et al speak I am confident we will work on our weaknesses and build on our strengths.

We fell short, and gee I am pi**ed off. It is a long season and lots of hurdles to jump and even mistakes made. But I am glad you have no say in our future or indeed the way we go about it. Of course you have the right to an opinion but does it always have to be so negative, said with unsubstantiated authority, and always so reactive.

We have faults, we will need to make changes, we will address those faults and we will make changes.
Unlike your suggestions they will be made with all the information at hand and made as a team not as a vocal alarmist.

 

[geelong_boy]

Next year they'll all be trying to play like Freo, it'll be no place for any fainthearted outside player,.................. and I agree we've gone small and soft run, run in our imaginations a far cry from the 06-07 days.
Same happened to our reserves yesterday, the opposition was to big to strong, just to hard.

Collingwood is small, not us. Look at the midfielders/flankers Wells has recruited since 2009. Most of them are 185cm+ (Menzel, Duncan, Cowan, Smedts, Guthrie, Murdoch, GHS, Caddy, Thurlow) while few are on the shorter sub 180 size (Christensen, McCarthy, Schroeder).

What I would like are some pure mids (eg a Bartel or a Corey) but due to our success we haven't had access to a pick high enough to get this type of player.