Troy Cooley Under Pressure?

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,365
10,708
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
Is the problem with the Australian Bowling Coach. Is this where the problem lies? I think it was 2005 when we poached England's bowling coach after we lost the Ashes there. This was the wrong move because A England used sugar lollies to assist in reverse swing which is illegal; we lost because we were carrying out of form batsmen like Katich and Martyn and leaving form players like Hussey out; McGrath was in killer form and got injured and we refused to select McGill and Warne when leg spin was killing the poms on all wickets over there.

You could say Hildich and his imbecile selectors cost us that series, and they did but why did that series make us pinch their bowling coach?

Since then things have gone down hill. This is what that bowling coach has achieved:

1. Bollinger was had that ability to swing the ball back into right handers and was deadly accurate and a wicket taker for NSW. When he made the Australian team all of a sudden he couldn't swing it and his accuracy has fallen a bit. All he does is angle it across the right handers and into the lefties. He was twice the bowler before the Aussies got their hands on him.

2. Brett Lee used to swing the ball and get nice angle on his seam and was a super 1 day bowler then all of a sudden he was bowling with a dead straight seam and getting no movement and now he's gone.

3. Hilfenhaus used to bowl a straight delivery. Now he has no variation and appears to have very little smarts. Hasn't been taught to use variation.

4. Johnson has been in the system for a long time and has made next to no progress. In fact he has probably gone backwards a bit. He can't stand the seam up and he can't land them.

5. Bracken used to be the best 1 day bowler in the world. He had excellent accuracy and swung the ball beautifully. I used to enjoy watching the seam come out of his hand spinning perfectly and pointing straight at 2nd slip of leg slip and the ball hooping and getting players out. At the end of his career the wonderful aussie bowling coaches managed to get his seam dead straight (pointing at the keeper). Then he couldn't move the ball and now he's long gone.

6. Hauritz. Why the hell can't he even bowl an arm ball!


We have a load of young guys coming in and all of them don't move the ball a lot, they bowl with dead straight seams and this is what Cooley has managed to achieve with some of our better bowlers who used to be able to swing the ball and cut it. McKay is one who is a real talent but his seam position is too straight for movement in the air and off the wicket.

Sine we instated this guy things have gone backwards. Sure we have lost stars but the guys who were next in line have gone backwards and it's unacceptable. Sri Lanka showed just how unskilled our bowlers are. We bowl poor bouncers and no one can bowl yorkers! Like in any work place, when you are in charge of a failing department and things are going backwards you get replaced.

Bring back Dennis Lillie as full time bowling coach!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

western royboy

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 30, 2008
10,398
10,775
Western Victoria
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Chelsea
Is the problem with the Australian Bowling Coach. Is this where the problem lies? I think it was 2005 when we poached England's bowling coach after we lost the Ashes there. This was the wrong move because A England used sugar lollies to assist in reverse swing which is illegal; we lost because we were carrying out of form batsmen like Katich and Martyn and leaving form players like Hussey out; McGrath was in killer form and got injured and we refused to select McGill and Warne when leg spin was killing the poms on all wickets over there.

You could say Hildich and his imbecile selectors cost us that series, and they did but why did that series make us pinch their bowling coach?

Since then things have gone down hill. This is what that bowling coach has achieved:

1. Bollinger was had that ability to swing the ball back into right handers and was deadly accurate and a wicket taker for NSW. When he made the Australian team all of a sudden he couldn't swing it and his accuracy has fallen a bit. All he does is angle it across the right handers and into the lefties. He was twice the bowler before the Aussies got their hands on him.

2. Brett Lee used to swing the ball and get nice angle on his seam and was a super 1 day bowler then all of a sudden he was bowling with a dead straight seam and getting no movement and now he's gone.

3. Hilfenhaus used to bowl a straight delivery. Now he has no variation and appears to have very little smarts. Hasn't been taught to use variation.

4. Johnson has been in the system for a long time and has made next to no progress. In fact he has probably gone backwards a bit. He can't stand the seam up and he can't land them.

5. Bracken used to be the best 1 day bowler in the world. He had excellent accuracy and swung the ball beautifully. I used to enjoy watching the seam come out of his hand spinning perfectly and pointing straight at 2nd slip of leg slip and the ball hooping and getting players out. At the end of his career the wonderful aussie bowling coaches managed to get his seam dead straight (pointing at the keeper). Then he couldn't move the ball and now he's long gone.

6. Hauritz. Why the hell can't he even bowl an arm ball!


We have a load of young guys coming in and all of them don't move the ball a lot, they bowl with dead straight seams and this is what Cooley has managed to achieve with some of our better bowlers who used to be able to swing the ball and cut it. McKay is one who is a real talent but his seam position is too straight for movement in the air and off the wicket.

Sine we instated this guy things have gone backwards. Sure we have lost stars but the guys who were next in line have gone backwards and it's unacceptable. Sri Lanka showed just how unskilled our bowlers are. We bowl poor bouncers and no one can bowl yorkers! Like in any work place, when you are in charge of a failing department and things are going backwards you get replaced.

Bring back Dennis Lillie as full time bowling coach!
Very Good assessment.

Cooley was a revelation to the Poms on 2005 where they literally had the old ball talking and after that we threw $$ at him to get him back in charge of our mob of which he has contributed didly squat.

A few comments. If you get the chance - get your hand on a Dukes ball and while your their get an SG ball as well and a Kookaburra. Examine and compare them. Three different balls with different seams, different lacquers and significantly playing characteristics. There is a chance that Cooley's techniques suited the Dukes ball more so than the Kooka's - just a theory. When the ball is reversing it's better to keep the seem straighter and then when it goes - it really goes.

Can't argue with most of your comments but surely any bowler worth his salt knows what works and what doesn't. Johnson is always going to be a confidence type of bowler due to the low arm action.

I'll be more interested to see the effect D Saker has on the Poms in Australia, if they can master the kooka - we are in the proverbial.
 

saint_larry

Team Captain
Aug 16, 2009
329
97
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Wigan.
Bit harsh on Lee. Seam positioning isn't the reason he's out of the team.
Agree on the other points though. Hypothetically, who else is there that could help with the bowling?
Mcgrath?
Maybe Dizzy?
 

krusden

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 7, 2008
8,950
36
34 55' 54"S, 138 36'04" E
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
When they're not belting us, NZ
Bit harsh on Lee. Seam positioning isn't the reason he's out of the team.
Agree on the other points though. Hypothetically, who else is there that could help with the bowling?
Mcgrath?
Maybe Dizzy?
If he wasn't coaching in zimbabwe IIRC.

The bowling coach can't be blamed for johnson being an overrated spud either.
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,365
10,708
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
Very Good assessment.

Cooley was a revelation to the Poms on 2005 where they literally had the old ball talking and after that we threw $$ at him to get him back in charge of our mob of which he has contributed didly squat...
That's what we thought. They cheated by using lollies to get extra reverse swing. We lost that series due to poor team selection and McGrath stepping on a ball and getting injured.

Cooley had little to do with England winning that series. We refused to play McGill. We took in a lot of out of form batsmen and left a lot of inform batsmen out.

We were fools to think snatching Cooley would help our bowling department which at the time was going ok.

Some one must be accountable for the lack of skill and well below potential performances and lack of development in our bowlers. Our bowlers lack of skill such as ability to bowl tight, bowl yorkers and move the ball is standing out like dog's balls.

If he wasn't coaching in zimbabwe IIRC.



The bowling coach can't be blamed for johnson being an overrated spud either.
Are you sure?
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,365
10,708
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
Cooley is replacing Greg Chappell at the Centre of Excellence so a new bowling coach will be required.
This is both bad and good. Does this mean a load of kids will come through who bowl like robots? Guys who don't have variation, don't move the ball and can't bowl tight line and length?

Let's hope we can pick up a decent bowling coach.
 

legend166

Premium Platinum
Apr 21, 2007
10,434
8,698
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Our inability to bowl yorkers at any level is something that baffles me time and time again. The most recent example being the loss to Sri Lanka with Malinga getting all the runs. Very, very few yorkers were even attempted.

It's the same in Test matches. The yorker used to be the stock standard ball to get tail enders out, and a surprise ball to good batsmans. It worked. Worst case, they dig it out.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Jimthegreat

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
13,694
5,616
Geelong
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Carlton
Everyone thought Cooley was a guru in 2005 with the reverse swing the Poms bowled only to find they used mints on the ball to extract that swing.

Sucked us in.
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,365
10,708
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
Yep we got a lemon from England. They cheated. We slected poorly and had 1 major injury and for some reason that made us think Cooley was the duck's nuts and we got him.

Now our bowlers have all taken steps backwards, lack basic skills and are bowling really poorly and it's been the case for so long. I think the way he ruined Bracken stands out the most. Bracken was the worlds number 1 bowler and one of the worlds most skilled. He was accurate as all hell, swung it brilliantly, could bowl yorkers at will and had a good bouncer and slower cutter ball. Cooley got his hands on him and had him bowling with a different seam angle, cut all his swing and accuracy out and finished him.

When you are in charge of something that is failing and is an absolute basket case you get sacked in any job. But CA people are too gutless to sack any one. I'm not sure where the problems lie. Maybe at the head with James Sutherland? Maybe that's the job for John Howard? Maybe the big decisions will be made after the Ashes series if we lose.

I remember when we first got Cooley I was wondering what the hell are we doing. England's bowling didn't win them the Ashes. That's when the cracks were beginning to show in the CA selection pannel and possibly at higher up levels than that.

Since 2005 we have:
1. Hung onto players who were obviously well past it like Martyn, Hayden and Mike Hussey.
2. Played guys who don't have form or are poor players like Hauritz, Johnson, and North.
3. Played White as our soul test spinner in India!
4. Refused to play good players at their peak such as Hodge and McGill at times.
5. Not considering to play O'Keefe and McDonald when they are flying and have the first class record behind them.
6. Dropped Hodge after he made 203 n.o. against a good side in S.A. with an average of 55.88.
7. Dropped Hughes who averages 51.25 after he went out 2 or 3 times the same way.

What will happen:
8. Pain averages 37 has made 2 good 50's in 4 matches when we needed him to and away against quality opposition as well as making runs for Tasmania. He will be dropped for an inferior Keeper who averages just 1 more run than him and can't keep.
9. Harris, our best bowler in all form over the last season who took 10 or so wickets in a shield game wont get played in QLD on a deck that suits him.
10. Johnson will get smashed and play at least 4 tests.
11. Hauritz and North wont be dropped until England defeat us.
12. What ever McDonald and O'Keefe do they will not get selected.
13. Haddin has the license to make no runs, drop catches and/or let byes go, he will keep his place at least until England defeat us.
14. Khawaja will need a mericle to get a game.
15. Hussey will get a full series.
 

western royboy

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 30, 2008
10,398
10,775
Western Victoria
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Chelsea
When you are in charge of something that is failing and is an absolute basket case you get sacked in any job. But CA people are too gutless to sack any one. I'm not sure where the problems lie. Maybe at the head with James Sutherland? Maybe that's the job for John Howard? Maybe the big decisions will be made after the Ashes series if we lose.
Now you are on the money don't think John Howard is the man for the job but my reading (albeit from a long way away) is that the whole joint has been complacent. Most areas need some new blood. Players, Administrators, Coaches included.
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,365
10,708
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
We have been getting away with bloody murder for years because we had a star studded side and you could carry a number of failing personell in it most of the time. Now we need to select well or we lose because we don't have Hayden, Langer, Ponting (young/form), Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath. There was a time when you could select those 6 and then pick your favorites like Hilditch and Co did and the team would win. Well it would win most of the times except in India and England when they balles up selection...

Now you must have every player in the 11 in form, with history to back it up and have the right players for the conditions.

I think North, Hussey, Joihnson and Hauritz should play the first test. Well maybe not Johnson. If they fail then that's it, shove them off. Before the series is lost. If we lose in Brisbane, then that's it, Brisbane is the most typical Aussie conditions in the country.
 

dan warna

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 13, 2003
20,556
198
melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Yep we got a lemon from England. They cheated. We slected poorly and had 1 major injury and for some reason that made us think Cooley was the duck's nuts and we got him.

Now our bowlers have all taken steps backwards, lack basic skills and are bowling really poorly and it's been the case for so long. I think the way he ruined Bracken stands out the most. Bracken was the worlds number 1 bowler and one of the worlds most skilled. He was accurate as all hell, swung it brilliantly, could bowl yorkers at will and had a good bouncer and slower cutter ball. Cooley got his hands on him and had him bowling with a different seam angle, cut all his swing and accuracy out and finished him.

When you are in charge of something that is failing and is an absolute basket case you get sacked in any job. But CA people are too gutless to sack any one. I'm not sure where the problems lie. Maybe at the head with James Sutherland? Maybe that's the job for John Howard? Maybe the big decisions will be made after the Ashes series if we lose.

I remember when we first got Cooley I was wondering what the hell are we doing. England's bowling didn't win them the Ashes. That's when the cracks were beginning to show in the CA selection pannel and possibly at higher up levels than that.

Since 2005 we have:
1. Hung onto players who were obviously well past it like Martyn, Hayden and Mike Hussey.
2. Played guys who don't have form or are poor players like Hauritz, Johnson, and North.
3. Played White as our soul test spinner in India!
4. Refused to play good players at their peak such as Hodge and McGill at times.
5. Not considering to play O'Keefe and McDonald when they are flying and have the first class record behind them.
6. Dropped Hodge after he made 203 n.o. against a good side in S.A. with an average of 55.88.
7. Dropped Hughes who averages 51.25 after he went out 2 or 3 times the same way.

What will happen:
8. Pain averages 37 has made 2 good 50's in 4 matches when we needed him to and away against quality opposition as well as making runs for Tasmania. He will be dropped for an inferior Keeper who averages just 1 more run than him and can't keep.
9. Harris, our best bowler in all form over the last season who took 10 or so wickets in a shield game wont get played in QLD on a deck that suits him.
10. Johnson will get smashed and play at least 4 tests.
11. Hauritz and North wont be dropped until England defeat us.
12. What ever McDonald and O'Keefe do they will not get selected.
13. Haddin has the license to make no runs, drop catches and/or let byes go, he will keep his place at least until England defeat us.
14. Khawaja will need a mericle to get a game.
15. Hussey will get a full series.
QFT

throw in clarke has been appointed captain in waiting and has no leadership skills, adequate batsman but has no idea and not 1/10 of waugh or border.
Wade, hartley and Paine better keepers than haddin.
team is looking lazy, fat, undisciplined and prone to injuries, worse than under the guidance of tubby taylor and nothing like the lean killing machine that border made, and S. waugh remade. Fielding has slipped dramatically as has on field discipline and skills.
 

linda

All Australian
Oct 25, 2005
929
5
third in the Olympics
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Derby County
Australia lost in 05 because England cheated :D:D Does that class as whinging


Troy Cooley got lucky with England Flintoff Harmison Jones and Hoggard all reached their peak at the same time .Nothing to do with him .The player he did the most work with was Anderson who he almost ruined
 

mattymac

GM of Awareness
Jul 9, 2009
14,798
25,437
Yes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
No
Australia lost in 05 because England cheated :D:D Does that class as whinging
no. we lost because of poor selection, poor preparation, injury to the leader of our attack, superior captaincy by michael vaughan and england cheating. england cheating on its own would never have been enough to beat us if we had our best team on the ground

the never-since-repeated reverse the poms were getting in 05 convinced everyone it was cooley. kind of like "wtf? how can the poms be so good at this?". "oh they've got an aussie bowling coach". "ah, that must be it then". yet all the time they were cheating in front of our eyes. sly buggers;)
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,365
10,708
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
it's like if i went up to you and said "this rock keeps tigers away". And you ask "how does it work?" and I say "Well do you see any tigers?"

Gee we're dumb...
 

The Governor

All Australian
Aug 16, 2008
755
115
Geelong
AFL Club
Geelong
How can you blame Troy Cooley when the bowling group in 2006-07 won the Ashes 5-0 and our bowlers did well during the 2007-2008 season before we went backwards?

Troy Cooley does not bowl for Australia. He is an advisor and teacher to our fast bowlers.

The sad part is since McGrath and Dizzy have retired, our fast bowling group are learning the trade whilst a certain fast bowler called Mitchell Johnson is a liability to the test side.

At the minute, Hilfenhauss, Bollinger and Siddle are three fast bowlers who can dry up the runs and take wickets whilst Mitchell Johnson will leak runs and take wickets.

In summary, our fast bowlers do not have the street smarts to quickly adapt to test match level. If you look at Cooley's work in ENgland, he had a group of fast bowlers who were quick learners and they started at the English Academy under Rod Marsh at the same time (Harmisson, Hoggard, Flintoff and Jones).

Troy Cooley inherited a fast bowling group in 2006-07 (McGrath, Lee, Dizzy and Clark) and when McGrath and Lee retired, the selectors gave him Siddle, Hilfenhauss and Bollinger. Troy Cooley did not develop and mentor our new fast bowlers since their Under 19 days. He mentored Doug Bollinger during his first days at the AIS Academy in Queensland in 2006.

So, since Troy Cooley's appointment in May 2006, he has had a chance to mentor and develop a new group of young fast bowlers (Josh Hazzlewood, Mitchell Starc, James Pattinson, Peter George, Doug Bollinger et al) when they received a scholarship to the AIS Academy in Queensland. Apart from Doug Bollinger, the remaining fast bowlers were young and fresh from Under 19 representative cricket and Troy had a chance to iron out bad habits in their bowling actions before they became 2nd nature.

In conclusion, you cannot blame Troy Cooley for everything. He inherited a bunch of fast bowlers who were previously mentored by other fast bowling coaches in Australia. With his knowledge and experience, he would have picked up technical faults in the bowling actions of Mitchell Johnson and Brett Lee. Hence, it would be difficult for the bowler to correct the faults due to the "faulty processes" becoming second nature.

THE GOVERNOR
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,365
10,708
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
How can you blame Troy Cooley when the bowling group in 2006-07 won the Ashes 5-0 and our bowlers did well during the 2007-2008 season before we went backwards?

Troy Cooley does not bowl for Australia. He is an advisor and teacher to our fast bowlers.

The sad part is since McGrath and Dizzy have retired, our fast bowling group are learning the trade whilst a certain fast bowler called Mitchell Johnson is a liability to the test side.

At the minute, Hilfenhauss, Bollinger and Siddle are three fast bowlers who can dry up the runs and take wickets whilst Mitchell Johnson will leak runs and take wickets.

In summary, our fast bowlers do not have the street smarts to quickly adapt to test match level. If you look at Cooley's work in ENgland, he had a group of fast bowlers who were quick learners and they started at the English Academy under Rod Marsh at the same time (Harmisson, Hoggard, Flintoff and Jones).

Troy Cooley inherited a fast bowling group in 2006-07 (McGrath, Lee, Dizzy and Clark) and when McGrath and Lee retired, the selectors gave him Siddle, Hilfenhauss and Bollinger. Troy Cooley did not develop and mentor our new fast bowlers since their Under 19 days. He mentored Doug Bollinger during his first days at the AIS Academy in Queensland in 2006.

So, since Troy Cooley's appointment in May 2006, he has had a chance to mentor and develop a new group of young fast bowlers (Josh Hazzlewood, Mitchell Starc, James Pattinson, Peter George, Doug Bollinger et al) when they received a scholarship to the AIS Academy in Queensland. Apart from Doug Bollinger, the remaining fast bowlers were young and fresh from Under 19 representative cricket and Troy had a chance to iron out bad habits in their bowling actions before they became 2nd nature.

In conclusion, you cannot blame Troy Cooley for everything. He inherited a bunch of fast bowlers who were previously mentored by other fast bowling coaches in Australia. With his knowledge and experience, he would have picked up technical faults in the bowling actions of Mitchell Johnson and Brett Lee. Hence, it would be difficult for the bowler to correct the faults due to the "faulty processes" becoming second nature.

THE GOVERNOR
Because they were senior developed bowlers who needed next to no coaching and already knew what they were doing.

If he is an advisor adn a teacher of our fast bowlers then why do they lack basic skills? Are they just all terrible? That's hard to believe.

Then why do some bowlers lose their ability to get the seam into the right position to swing the ball when they join the Australian side?
 

Top Bottom