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Troy Menzel

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tenderwarrior said:
Tom Gillies step on down!

Would the Bulldogs/ McCartney be interested? Give them Gillies and Swap 2nd Rounders? :)
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I don't know, but that's the type of thing you'd think about trying for. Top 15 is unrealistic now in terms of a club pulling the trigger that early, and you couldn't risk him at that. But somewhere in the 20-40 range I still think someone will, so you'd want to get a pick as high in that range as possible if you were interested, to maximise your chances.
 
Footy Smarts said:
We shouldn't be too worried about the whole "injury concern" stuff. It seems to me that plenty of players that slide in the draft due to injury concerns end up being fine (Selwood and Judd for example). There's also just as much chance that a guy with no previous injuries getting hit by them.

We need to remember that knee reconstructions are much better now than they once were. There was talk about D Menzel that his knees after the reconstructions would be far stronger than they were beforehand and that reconstructed knees are now normally better than most people without having reconstructions. If he's going to slip down in to the mid 20s then I'd definitely pick him up because he's been rated as closer to the top 5 when fit. It's pretty rare to get such a talent that cheap.

The question is how to get a pick there. Our 2nd round pick is about 35 right? We could probably somehow upgrade that to about 30 by giving up Gillies but I doubt we could go much higher. It would be ideal if somehow Menzel could slip down to that pick but it seems unlikely. Otherwise it might require giving up Simpson who might want out. Not sure I like that though because I really rate the big bloke.
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Sure. But if the reports about this weekend are true, and I hope they are not, then the Menzel boys will have done 4 knees between them under the age of 21. No matter how you look at it, that's a huge risk and will see a slide.

I tend to agree with your last pargraph, you'd want to try and upgrade pick 35 (or whatever it is) to something in the late 20's (although we're all guessing). It will depend on which clubs have picks where as some clubs won't have a strong enough list to be able to take the risk on him, whereas some will.
 

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Stig_90 said:
There's got to be something in the Menzel genes. You couldn't take a risk on him in the first round now.
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Very sensible approach
 
Jim Boy said:
It was the non-lars knee apparently. So that is four out of the four knees for the boys, at least no repaired knee has been reinjured, so maybe the repairs have made them stronger
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Too early to say for DM.
For TM, I would guess that the LARS knee is a time bomb. Guess based on history.
 
The kid needs both knees repaired now (traditional) - miss most of next year - play a half dozen VFL at the end of the year - ready to go in 2014. Thats second round IMO.

Made easier in the knowledge we have Menzel, Vardy, Varcoe all coming back in next year- three top 5 pick equivalents (on form displayed so far).

Just need to get the knee doctors to tick off on my plan.
 
Pure_Ownage said:
Sure. But if the reports about this weekend are true, and I hope they are not, then the Menzel boys will have done 4 knees between them under the age of 21. No matter how you look at it, that's a huge risk and will see a slide.
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Thankfully they only have the 4 knees between them and the science suggests that reconstructed knees are far stronger now than previously. If the knee was going to go anyway it could be a help that it's gone this early so that he gets some of the rehab out of the way before getting on to an AFL list.
 
catswhiskers said:
The kid needs both knees repaired now (traditional) - miss most of next year - play a half dozen VFL at the end of the year - ready to go in 2014. Thats second round IMO.

Made easier in the knowledge we have Menzel, Vardy, Varcoe all coming back in next year- three top 5 pick equivalents (on form displayed so far).

Just need to get the knee doctors to tick off on my plan.
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It's great to have those three available from the start of next season. But we can't presume Menzel will be the same immediately. Virtually every player who does an ACL takes time to return to their best. If they ever do (and that's no guarantee don't forget), the positive of course is that he has youth on his side. Vardy again will be great to have available, but he needs to consolidate a place in the side. Every young player on the list has shown the value games 11-30 have in development, I can't wait to see him after 30 games instead of right now.
 
Having found out that our second pick is in fact 36, I find it highly doubtful that Troy would slip this far down the order. I think he'll definitely be available at pick 15 though, so unless we manage to trade players/picks for pick upgrades, if we want Menzel II then we are going to have to use our first rounder on him. His obvious talent aside, does he fill the void that we have on our list in years to come? I think that unless he can become a quality mid, and an inside one at that, I am doubtful that he will fill the specific hole we need filling. Even if he could become a quality mid, his talents are obviously up forward so he'd be kind of wasted. I would love to draft a quality inside mid with our first rounder, then try and get a higher draft pick, say something in the low 20's, and hope that it will be enough to secure Troy. This is easier said than done I know. I wonder if the club want Troy as badly as us supporters do?
 
There you go eh? I suspect we may never see him at all in the AFL.

Dan's future must be even more cloudy than before this news. Anyone counting on Dan being back in the team next year might want to just hold on a bit. He certainly won't be making the big difference many are hoping for.
 
Partridge said:
It's great to have those three available from the start of next season. But we can't presume Menzel will be the same immediately. Virtually every player who does an ACL takes time to return to their best. If they ever do (and that's no guarantee don't forget), the positive of course is that he has youth on his side. Vardy again will be great to have available, but he needs to consolidate a place in the side. Every young player on the list has shown the value games 11-30 have in development, I can't wait to see him after 30 games instead of right now.
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Yes.
Remember a guy called Prismall?
Nowhere to be seen.
ACL injures are career threatening at best, career ending at worst, Prismall is somewhere between. 2? 3? I lose count.
Wojo, J Hunt, Hayes, Goddard etc. have come back brilliantly from 1-2 ACL Reconstructions, but there are some that are genetically or collagenetically disadvantaged.
 

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VEEDUBS said:
Yes.
Remember a guy called Prismall?
Nowhere to be seen.
ACL injures are career threatening at best, career ending at worst, Prismall is somewhere between. 2? 3? I lose count.
Wojo, J Hunt, Hayes, Goddard etc. have come back brilliantly from 1-2 ACL Reconstructions, but there are some that are genetically or collagenetically disadvantaged.
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I was about to ask why it is that (putting genetics to one side for a moment) many players bounce back from severe knee injuries without any noticeable deterioration in their agility. Lenny Hayes is a recent classic example of an ageing player who hasn’t missed a beat since his return. But your edit beat me to the punch.:)
 
CharacterFirst said:
There you go eh? I suspect we may never see him at all in the AFL.

Dan's future must be even more cloudy than before this news. Anyone counting on Dan being back in the team next year might want to just hold on a bit. He certainly won't be making the big difference many are hoping for.
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That seems to me a particularly pessimistic point of view. Surgical procedures and rehab have advanced amazingly over the last ten years and I have no doubt DM received the best possible practitioner to do the job. I hope VD makes a comment on this, but I would think his chances of returning strongly are quite high.

If that is the end result, he will make a hell of a difference. Menzel is star quality.
 
David the Cat said:
That seems to me a particularly pessimistic point of view. Surgical procedures and rehab have advanced amazingly over the last ten years and I have no doubt DM received the best possible practitioner to do the job. I hope VD makes a comment on this, but I would think his chances of returning strongly are quite high.

If that is the end result, he will make a hell of a difference. Menzel is star quality.
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I hope he returns as superman. But he has done both knees now, and his little brother has as well. That doesn't sound particularly good to me.

Anyway, I don't think he will make an impact next year at all. I think he may not play until 1/2 way thru the season or later.
 
CharacterFirst said:
I hope he returns as superman. But he has done both knees now, and his little brother has as well. That doesn't sound particularly good to me.

Anyway, I don't think he will make an impact next year at all. I think he may not play until 1/2 way thru the season or later.
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I'd just pick up best option of who's available at Pick 15, there will be some real talent there.

I wouldn't roll the dice with our first round opportunity, just to valuable.

If we miss him so be it, to many issues for an 18yold, maybe 2 round, but still, those knees are a huge worry.
 
CharacterFirst said:
I hope he returns as superman. But he has done both knees now, and his little brother has as well. That doesn't sound particularly good to me.

Anyway, I don't think he will make an impact next year at all. I think he may not play until 1/2 way thru the season or later.
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I think if he's fit they'll play him in the reserves for at least a few games until he's absolutely 100%. If it means 6-8 games in the seconds so be it.
 

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CharacterFirst said:
I hope he returns as superman. But he has done both knees now, and his little brother has as well. That doesn't sound particularly good to me.

Anyway, I don't think he will make an impact next year at all. I think he may not play until 1/2 way thru the season or later.
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I think that's overly cautious. It's 3 months before he's straight line running, 5 months before change of direction work and at 8 months most athletes are cleared to play full contact sport. Rd1 2013 will be a few days shy of 11 months since Daniel's Surgery. Even conservatively speaking he should be ready a month before the NAB cup starts.

I'd expect Daniel to be up and runing now and after Christmas involved in all preseason activities. We know he's a hard worker so i'm expecting a full AFL season from him. He might not be at his best but he's too good to be kicking around in the reserves
 
On another thread it was said he hasnt done ACL, but had strained a medial or something less severe. Anyone know any info?
 
Megaman123 said:
On another thread it was said he hasnt done ACL, but had strained a medial or something less severe. Anyone know any info?
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Certainly hope that's the case. Have not heard anything though, maybe someone on the Adelaide or Port boards has more info.
 
DanA said:
I think that's overly cautious. It's 3 months before he's straight line running, 5 months before change of direction work and at 8 months most athletes are cleared to play full contact sport. Rd1 2013 will be a few days shy of 11 months since Daniel's Surgery. Even conservatively speaking he should be ready a month before the NAB cup starts.

I'd expect Daniel to be up and runing now and after Christmas involved in all preseason activities. We know he's a hard worker so i'm expecting a full AFL season from him. He might not be at his best but he's too good to be kicking around in the reserves
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Time will tell, of course.
 
sarah.13 said:
Talk of using our first RD pick on a kid that has had 2 knee reco"s is ludicrous.
Getting Menzel's brother over is appealing for several reasons but reality must come first, too big a risk!!
In all likely hood we will have 3 picks at most in ND.Pick 15 will get us a very talented kid with no injury concerns.
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Just think if we had that mindset in the 2006 draft we wouldn't have our current skipper
 
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