True Justice: Arafat dead without achieving his goal

MillerCHF

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Today's events are an example of what true justice is:

Yasser Arafat had only one aim in life - to eradicate the State of Israel and replace it with the State of Palestine.

Today Arafat died without ever having seen an independent Palestinian state, despite the fact he was given every chance to create one.

Regardless of whether a Palestinian state is a just concept or not, the fact that the arch-terrorist Arafat died without ever seeing let alone leading an independent Palestinian state, is the true meaning of justice.

I live happily in the knowledge that Arafat is getting what he deserves in the afterlife.
 

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MillerCHF

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Mark Perica said:
Miller you are one of the most egregiously vindictive of all the posters on this forum
When you have to deal with the terrorist-apologist scum that inhabit BF, you have to be that way.
 

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#4
MillerCHF said:
When you have to deal with the terrorist-apologist scum that inhabit BF, you have to be that way.
And those like you who won't just let it go will ensure that Arafat's death will simply result in more tensions and more deaths. Surely this occasion should be marking an opportunity to move forward rather than an occasion to gloat.
 

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#7
MillerCHF said:
Today's events are an example of what true justice is:

Yasser Arafat had only one aim in life - to eradicate the State of Israel and replace it with the State of Palestine.

Today Arafat died without ever having seen an independent Palestinian state, despite the fact he was given every chance to create one.

Regardless of whether a Palestinian state is a just concept or not, the fact that the arch-terrorist Arafat died without ever seeing let alone leading an independent Palestinian state, is the true meaning of justice.

I live happily in the knowledge that Arafat is getting what he deserves in the afterlife.
im usually in agreance with you!

but not on this issue!!!

the palestinians are sssssoooo opressed by the israelies its a joke ... watched a program on SBS about it the other week ... if you lived in his shoes and have had to dealt with the oppression that the palestinians have to deal with every day by the isralies you would hate them too!!!!

a couple of things i remember ... israel put a fense up so u can't go between israel and palestine territory (fair enough in principle with the instability) ... you have to go through border crossings ... and there was this team of israeli doctors who every week go to provide free healthcare to the needy palestinians ... every week they get screwed around by the border control because they are helping out the palestinians.

the only reason nothing has been done about this is cos half of america is run by the jews ... so they protect israell ... but the truth of the matter is the israelie's are cruel and inhumane to the palestinians!!!!

PS: i agree to an extent arafat has done a lot of wrong things ... it was funny reading the israeli foreign ministers comment ... but the problem rests with both sides and currently the oppression the palestinians suffer is pretty horendous.
 

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#8
Arafat wasn't Palestinian, he was Egyptian. He was motivated to fight for the destruction of Israel, and this was his defining cause until his death. Thankfully, he never achieved his goal. His martyrdom in the press is disgusting.
 

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#9
BlueBoy83 said:
im usually in agreance with you!

but not on this issue!!!

the palestinians are sssssoooo opressed by the israelies its a joke ... watched a program on SBS about it the other week ... if you lived in his shoes and have had to dealt with the oppression that the palestinians have to deal with every day by the isralies you would hate them too!!!!

a couple of things i remember ... israel put a fense up so u can't go between israel and palestine territory (fair enough in principle with the instability) ... you have to go through border crossings ... and there was this team of israeli doctors who every week go to provide free healthcare to the needy palestinians ... every week they get screwed around by the border control because they are helping out the palestinians.

the only reason nothing has been done about this is cos half of america is run by the jews ... so they protect israell ... but the truth of the matter is the israelie's are cruel and inhumane to the palestinians!!!!

PS: i agree to an extent arafat has done a lot of wrong things ... it was funny reading the israeli foreign ministers comment ... but the problem rests with both sides and currently the oppression the palestinians suffer is pretty horendous.
I share your sentiments. I don't mind Jews as a rule, but those in Israel are **********!
 
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Admin #10
Tim56 said:
Arafat wasn't Palestinian, he was Egyptian. He was motivated to fight for the destruction of Israel, and this was his defining cause until his death. Thankfully, he never achieved his goal. His martyrdom in the press is disgusting.
OK fine, now that he is dead, the palestinian problem will go away, the middle east will reform and terrorism will melt from the face of the earth.
 

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#11
Jim Boy said:
OK fine, now that he is dead, the palestinian problem will go away, the middle east will reform and terrorism will melt from the face of the earth.
C'mon, admit it. You're John Howards foreign policy advisor aren't you? :D
 

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#13
Hopefully, the Israelis will make the right gestures towards peace and a democratically elected Palestinian leader will have the courage to be able to take up where the negotiations left off in 2000. Whoever that leader may be will have to ensure that his or her people understand the meaning of compromise and have the further courage to put an end to the terrorist groups that fan the flames of hatred toward their neighbours.

To those misguided individuals who have expressed animosity (aka racism) to the Israeli people, I suggest that you don't allow yourselves to be blinded by the propaganda you might read.

I've been at Israeli peace rallies where 200,000 people have demonstrated for peace. Likewise, there are Palestinians who want peace also. It's a pity that their leader Arafat was so ambiguous that he was able to talk about making peace on the one hand and then to proclaim as "martyrs" the perpetrators of viscious attacks on civilians. That is why I believe Arafat symbolised the tragedy of the Palestinian people and why I hope that his much awaited death will allow for peace in the region.
 

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#14
I would be interested to know how many people on this board think that the death of Arafat will increase the chances of peace ? or will it just allow isreal to dominate Palastine ?

I think that Arafat's death has opened up the door for peace

Isreal dealing with Arafat is like Osam bin laden negotiating peace in Afganistan with America (or so it seems)
 

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#18
Grolm37 said:
I would be interested to know how many people on this board think that the death of Arafat will increase the chances of peace ? or will it just allow isreal to dominate Palastine ?

I think that Arafat's death has opened up the door for peace
Grolm37,

I'll be the first to admit that Arafat had many faults, and I of all people think him to have outserved his purpose years ago.

However...the fact of the matter is that Arafat is the one man that put the Palestinian issue on the map. He singlehandedly made the world look up and do something....Palestine went from a refugee issue to a political world stage issue.

Back in 1969...when Arafat was made leader of the executive council of the PLO (this is before Arafat was in the picture)....Golda Meir (she was the Israeli Prime Minister in case you didn't know), got up on the world stage, in the UN security council, and with the straight face told the world that the Palestinian people didn't exist.

She said...with a straight face that there were no Palestinian people. Many zionists even today agree with her (just read some of MillerCHF and BananaBenders posts).

This was before Arafat was in the picture. So what makes you think that Arafats death will open the door for peace??

israel don't want peace. They want the total surrender and destruction of the Palestinian people. It is for this reason that they hate Arafat so much. He was always a thorn in there side.

Israel don't want peace. What they want is the whole of the west bank, whilst the remainder of the Palestinians live in a prison which is Gaza strip, where Israel control all borders and air space.

After 1993, when the Oslo Peace accords were signed...within the next 5 years, the Israeli's built over 500 settlements in the Westbank alone (gush-shalom.com).

Now is the act of a nation that wants peace.

pfft!


Grolm37 said:
Isreal dealing with Arafat is like Osam bin laden negotiating peace in Afganistan with America (or so it seems)
Palestine dealing with Sharon is like Adolf Hitler negotiating a peace in Israel with England.
 

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#19
MillerCHF said:
Today's events are an example of what true justice is:

Yasser Arafat had only one aim in life - to eradicate the State of Israel and replace it with the State of Palestine.

Today Arafat died without ever having seen an independent Palestinian state, despite the fact he was given every chance to create one.

Regardless of whether a Palestinian state is a just concept or not, the fact that the arch-terrorist Arafat died without ever seeing let alone leading an independent Palestinian state, is the true meaning of justice.

I live happily in the knowledge that Arafat is getting what he deserves in the afterlife.
Finally a well written piece without going overboard as you usually do.. I tend to be in agreeance in that for all his posturing he did nothing to advance the cause he purported to believe in.

Tim56 said:
Arafat wasn't Palestinian, he was Egyptian. He was motivated to fight for the destruction of Israel, and this was his defining cause until his death. Thankfully, he never achieved his goal. His martyrdom in the press is disgusting.
Agreed but his martyrdom comes from the need of the press to paper over the atrocities and to highlight the good things... Whats the saying? Never speak ill of the dead?

Bananabender said:
I've been at Israeli peace rallies where 200,000 people have demonstrated for peace. Likewise, there are Palestinians who want peace also. It's a pity that their leader Arafat was so ambiguous that he was able to talk about making peace on the one hand and then to proclaim as "martyrs" the perpetrators of viscious attacks on civilians. That is why I believe Arafat symbolised the tragedy of the Palestinian people and why I hope that his much awaited death will allow for peace in the region.
And the cynic inside me tells me nothing will change...you can march all you want it wont change unless the leaders are marching..I have heard here in WA a good political line...''if its not politically good it wont happen no matter how fantastic the idea is'' meaning if the opposition can make newspaper copy out of it or twist it ..until they get in power and bring it in :rolleyes:

Grolm37 said:
I would be interested to know how many people on this board think that the death of Arafat will increase the chances of peace ? or will it just allow isreal to dominate Palastine ?

I think that Arafat's death has opened up the door for peace
Unfortunately I dont share that view ..I think we will see a further period of Israeli dominance while the leadership group within the PLO settle themselves

Dont get me wrong I am not an Israeli apologist as I believe the intransigence of the Israeli leadership also has a lot to do with the violence in the region..and before you say''but they started it first'' remember that the true man of strength knows he can bend..while the weak man is afraid to bend

Todays terrorist is tomorrows freedom fighter..just depends if your on the sides of angels.

All those who helped create the State of Israel used the same tactics that Arafat did..Arent they heroes now? Gee shows what a good spin doctor and the blurring of time can do
 

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#20
Lestat said:
Grolm37,

I'll be the first to admit that Arafat had many faults, and I of all people think him to have outserved his purpose years ago.

However...the fact of the matter is that Arafat is the one man that put the Palestinian issue on the map. He singlehandedly made the world look up and do something....Palestine went from a refugee issue to a political world stage issue.

Back in 1969...when Arafat was made leader of the executive council of the PLO (this is before Arafat was in the picture)....Golda Meir (she was the Israeli Prime Minister in case you didn't know), got up on the world stage, in the UN security council, and with the straight face told the world that the Palestinian people didn't exist.

She said...with a straight face that there were no Palestinian people. Many zionists even today agree with her (just read some of MillerCHF and BananaBenders posts).

This was before Arafat was in the picture. So what makes you think that Arafats death will open the door for peace??

israel don't want peace. They want the total surrender and destruction of the Palestinian people. It is for this reason that they hate Arafat so much. He was always a thorn in there side.

Israel don't want peace. What they want is the whole of the west bank, whilst the remainder of the Palestinians live in a prison which is Gaza strip, where Israel control all borders and air space.

After 1993, when the Oslo Peace accords were signed...within the next 5 years, the Israeli's built over 500 settlements in the Westbank alone (gush-shalom.com).

Now is the act of a nation that wants peace.

pfft!




Palestine dealing with Sharon is like Adolf Hitler negotiating a peace in Israel with England.
.

wasnt there a peace deal turned down by arafat which israel gave the westbank, gaza strip and east jeruselm to the palastinians ?
 

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#21
Grolm37 said:
.

wasnt there a peace deal turned down by arafat which israel gave the westbank, gaza strip and east jeruselm to the palastinians ?
No there wasn't.

If you mean that myth that is 'Barak's Peace offer' then it was far less then all of westbank, and Gaza, and East Jerusalem was not offered.

I have posted Barak's peace offer on another thread (with no reply from our resident zionists mind you)...go take a look, then tell me who in there right mind would accept this offer.

Acceptance of that offer was in reality a total surrender of the rights of the Palestinians, and denial of a viable palestinian state, the the palestinian people.

Which is exactly what the zionists are striving for.
 
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#22
Mr. Lestat,

You couldn't even lie straight in bed could you?

"She said...with a straight face that there were no Palestinian people. Many zionists even today agree with her (just read some of MillerCHF and BananaBenders posts)."

If you bothered to read my posts, you would see that I am pro Palestinian independence. I believe in a two State solution in which both Israel and Palestine mutually recognise each other's rights to self-determination.

I challenge you to find anything I have said which is inconsistent with that proposition.

You haven't bothered to think about what I said elsewhere in reference to Irshad Manji's views - " Palestinians Are Trapped by Their Own Culture". http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/news/latimes-04-09-01.html

The fact that I posted the link to the article should make it clear that I am not against a Palestinian state or a Palestinian national identity but I do oppose the Palestinian terrorists and the culture they created. I'm not talking here about your superficial concept of one man's terrorist being another man's freedom fighter. I'm talking about monsters like Arafat who make a sport of butchering innocent civilians as a tactic and who sign peace accords and then flagrantly violate their terms.

I'm not interested in Arafat now - he's met his maker and if he's extraordinarily lucky he's probably rolling in the hay with 72 virgins at this very moment (although I doubt it).

I simply hope for the sake of the Palestinian people that they find leaders who don't have the same mindset as Lestat and other hatemongers and lunatics who seek to stir the pot and inflame the conflict by playing these senseless blame games. If the extremists get control then there's no chance for a peaceful solution irrespective of how much breast beating, whining and points scoring goes on around here.
 
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#23
"wasnt there a peace deal turned down by arafat which israel gave the westbank, gaza strip and east jeruselm to the palastinians?"

I recommend that you don't listen to the explanation Lestat gave you. It's wrong.

If you get a book called "Bad News From Israel" by Greg Philo and Mike Berry of the Glasgow Media Group you will find the exact map at the beginning of the book of what was put forward by Clinton to the Palestinians at Taba in early 2001. The Palestinians got all of Gaza, 97% of the West Bank (the remaining 3% in areas of Israeli population centres with corresponding land swaps), sharing of Jerusalem - the maps were agreed upon by the Israeli and Palestinian negotiators but Arafat turned down the deal. He later confessed that he regretted not accepting the offer (Barak was beaten by Sharon in the elections that followed because he failed to put an end to the violent attacks on Israeli civilians).

I cited the map republished in this particular book, because it was written by people who are definitely sympathetic to the Palestinians - they are certainly not Zionists as Lestat will inevitably allege in the case of anything with which he disagrees.

But don't rely on me or Lestat - get the book, read it and take very careful note of the map. You can also want read what Bill Clinton and Dennis Ross have said in their books about Arafat's negotiating performance (or lack thereof). Interestingly Abu Mazen and Abu Ala have been credited with being the most capable and respected Palestinian negotiators, people with whom peace could be made. They are the ones who are in control of Palestine at the moment pending elections.
 

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#24
Tim56 said:
Arafat wasn't Palestinian, he was Egyptian. He was motivated to fight for the destruction of Israel, and this was his defining cause until his death. Thankfully, he never achieved his goal. His martyrdom in the press is disgusting.
This same arguement can be applied to every Israeli who immigrated from elsewhere to Isreali and there are a couple of million of them.

Arafasts parent were from Gaza and he always considered himself a Palestinian never a Eyptian.

MillerCHF Arafat will realise his dream of a FULLY independant Palestinian state in the occupied terrirories. Arafat has been a conveinant scape goat for Israeli obstruction of such a state. The pressure is already being applied by the Europeans and there many in the Bush administration who believe that a significant key to Middle East peac is a FULLY independant Palestinian state and in this they are quite correct. With Arafat gone they will be more able to pressure Israel with a guilt trip being applied to them by the Israelis.

Fact is MillerCHF the Israelis have run out of excuses.

The question you should be asking is this. Arafat died of natural casues will Sharon?
 

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#25
BlueMark said:
This same arguement can be applied to every Israeli who immigrated from elsewhere to Isreali and there are a couple of million of them.

Arafasts parent were from Gaza and he always considered himself a Palestinian never a Eyptian.

MillerCHF Arafat will realise his dream of a FULLY independant Palestinian state in the occupied terrirories. Arafat has been a conveinant scape goat for Israeli obstruction of such a state. The pressure is already being applied by the Europeans and there many in the Bush administration who believe that a significant key to Middle East peac is a FULLY independant Palestinian state and in this they are quite correct. With Arafat gone they will be more able to pressure Israel with a guilt trip being applied to them by the Israelis.

Fact is MillerCHF the Israelis have run out of excuses.

The question you should be asking is this. Arafat died of natural casues will Sharon?
I agree with Blue Mark.And i doubt Sharon will die of Natural causes,2 reasons
a-the Palestinians will become more determined in seeking a palestinian state,they need to give Arafat a legacy.
b-The isreali right will harden in their determination to prevent a palestinian state by peaceful means.
 
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