True Justice: Arafat dead without achieving his goal

DaveW

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#26
MillerCHF said:
I live happily in the knowledge that Arafat is getting what he deserves in the afterlife.
A curly one at the pearlies
November 13, 2004

Dawn at the gates of heaven. "This is a tough one, Archangel," said St Peter, scrolling down the morning applications. "Do we let Yasser Arafat in?"

Gabriel shrugged. "Don't ask me. I do trumpets and hosannas. You do admissions. Coffee?"

It was going to be another one of those days. St Peter grimaced. These controversial requests for eternal paradise were enough to try the patience of a saint. Had been for millennia, especially with these so-called world leaders, when you had to decide whether the applicant was the revered father of his nation or a homicidal brute. The row over Napoleon Bonaparte had gone on for decades. Ho Chi Minh was still in purgatory, decision pending.

"Myself, I'm inclined to let Arafat in," said St Peter. "But I expect there'll be hell to pay. Abraham and Moses will go ballistic over in the Jewish section. They'll try to stop it at board level."

The Archangel sipped his coffee. Latte, no sugar. "You could do a deal with them," he said. "Offer to fast-track Ariel Sharon when he carks it. That can't be far off. What are you doing about the virgins?"

"Virgins?"

"Arafat will want 72 virgins as a reward for martyrdom." Gabriel sniggered, less than angelically. "Have we got 72 virgins?"

"Lord knows. And if we do I don't suppose they'll exactly be queuing to hop into the tent with him. Omar Sharif he ain't. I'll have to refer that upwards."

Peter scowled again. Decisions, decisions. And more coming, by the look of it: a seraph fluttered into the office and dumped a computer printout on the desk. "VIP prayers," said the seraph. "St Paul's off sick today - he says can you sort them out for him. There's one from George Bush asking for a quick victory in Iraq."

The Archangel Gabriel slapped a thigh and chortled, spilling his coffee. Peter the fisherman threw back his head and laughed, a great rumbling convulsion that rattled the pearly gates on their foundations and, quite by accident, set off a small earthquake in Hokkaido.

"Tell George," he said, tears streaming down reddened cheeks, "tell George he got his election win last week. One miracle is enough."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Mike-Carlton/A-curly-one-at-the-pearlies/2004/11/12/1100227579227.html
 

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#27
Lestat said:
israel don't want peace.
which is why most israelis are optimistic about the future after arafat and hamas, fatah, islamic jihad and other Palestinian terrorist organisations have been distributing leaflets around telling people to continue the intifada more then ever. i was watching the funeral yesterday and was in absolute horror when i witnessed a child of only three or four carrying a large shotgun over one shoulder and holding out a peace sign with his other hand. It's like their children are taught that the only reason to achieve peace is by war.

My only hope is that the Palestinians do not conform to what is expected from them and move away from their long legacy of suicide bombers which have represented the entire community. it is time for the leaders to thwart out hamas, fatah and islamic jihad. it is time for a democratic state of Palestine. The only way this can be achieved is if the Palestinian people begin a new era on January 9 or whenever elections are held and vote for a peaceful leader.

Israel must also make some adjustments. The IDF must learn to be more tolerant of Palestinians. For this to happen, the Israeli government must open up a GBE which is open to Palestinian complaints about aleged discriminatory acts by IDF soldiers. this GBE must then investigate each and every accusation, hopefully with the help of the Americans and the British. You must remember that all Israelis become soldiers from the ages of 18-20, so that means there will always be right wing extremists in the army whose sole purpose is to kill as many Palestinians as possible and therefore create a bad name for the IDF. these so-called soldiers of Israel must be thrown out of the army and into a prison cell.

Sharon must continue to pull out of Gaza and be prepared to assist the Palestinian people in creating a democratic Palestinain state. the first step for this is the death of Arafat. the second step must be a democratic election by January 9. the third step is that the Palestinian people must elect a peaceful leader who is prepared to thwart out terrorist organisations such as hammas, islamic jihad and fatah. the fourth step is that the new Palestinain government sets up jails(with the help of Israel, USA and/or the UK if their help is requested) in which these terrorists can be sent for life. During these times, the IDF will be 'cleaned up' by the Israeli government and will also pull out of Gaza. Then and ONLY then can a democratic Palestinian state be created. During all of these steps there cannot be any terrorist attacks. these will push the process back tenfold. as a result, the Israel police MUST stay on the highest alert.
 
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Admin #28
^Eagle^ said:
the second step must be a democratic election by January 9.
You missed a step, the death of Sharon. Israel can never gain the confidence of the Palestinian people or the wider acceptance from the world community and Israelis wont stop being targetted and dying while this brutal terrorist thug lives.
 

RaMa

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#29
"Palestine has never existed... as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture.... There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.... Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.... Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today.... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough."

- from "Myths of the Middle East", Joseph Farah, Arab-American editor and journalist, WorldNetDaily.Com, 11 October 2000
 

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#30
RaMa said:
"Palestine has never existed... as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture.... There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.... Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.... Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today.... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough."

- from "Myths of the Middle East", Joseph Farah, Arab-American editor and journalist, WorldNetDaily.Com, 11 October 2000
Those facts are generally a sad truth... by generally i mean that only the right-wing Arab extremists want the entire region to be theirs and Israel to be wiped out, just as the right-wing Jewish extremists want the Palestinians wiped out. the jobs of poth respective parties is to eradicate right-wing extremists from both sides of the fence. Then there wont be any need for a fence.

Now, Palestine never was a country. it never was a people. it never had a place in the history of the world. however, now, Palestine is a people. Palestine will become a country. And Palestine are createing their own place in the history of the world. it's the people's choice whether they want to be remembered as a society run by terrorists or as a peaceful society.
 

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#31
Jim Boy said:
the death of Sharon. Israel can never gain the confidence of the Palestinian people...while this brutal terrorist thug lives.
1st of all - i agree with the fact that no Sharon would mean greater willingness of co-operation between the two parties. 2nd of all, i disagree with your claim of him being a 'terrorist'.

Yes, he is corrupt and does things i don't like. yet, he captures one terrorist after another. the assasination of the hammas founder was once thought as unachievable, yet he achieved it. he has lead Israel through one of it's toughest battles and through the past few months, he has proved a better security force. In four/five months, there has only been one attack i can recall that was targetted at Israelis and it wasn't even on Israeli soil. Sharon has stepped up the defence and security of the state of Israel. his fence to prevent Palestinian terrorists(hammas, islamic jihad and fatah) from enterring Israel has worked unbelievably well. all he needs to do now is 'clean up' the IDF by setting up something as effective as my proposed GBE to thwart out corruption.

To what you were saying about the end of terrorist attacks on Israel, if Palestine became a democratic country with prison cells full of terrorists, who would attack and target Jews whether Sharon is there or not?
 
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Admin #32
^Eagle^ said:
1st of all - i agree with the fact that no Sharon would mean greater willingness of co-operation between the two parties. 2nd of all, i disagree with your claim of him being a 'terrorist'.

Yes, he is corrupt and does things i don't like. yet, he captures one terrorist after another. the assasination of the hammas founder was once thought as unachievable, yet he achieved it. he has lead Israel through one of it's toughest battles and through the past few months, he has proved a better security force. In four/five months, there has only been one attack i can recall that was targetted at Israelis and it wasn't even on Israeli soil. Sharon has stepped up the defence and security of the state of Israel. his fence to prevent Palestinian terrorists(hammas, islamic jihad and fatah) from enterring Israel has worked unbelievably well. all he needs to do now is 'clean up' the IDF by setting up something as effective as my proposed GBE to thwart out corruption.

To what you were saying about the end of terrorist attacks on Israel, if Palestine became a democratic country with prison cells full of terrorists, who would attack and target Jews whether Sharon is there or not?
Reading this reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer gets praised for the dramatic drop in incidents as he is the new safety officer, despite Smithers pointing out that the decrease in the number of accidents occuring is exactly the same number of accidents that Homer is thought to have caused.
 

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#33
Jim Boy said:
Reading this reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer gets praised for the dramatic drop in incidents as he is the new safety officer, despite Smithers pointing out that the decrease in the number of accidents occuring is exactly the same number of accidents that Homer is thought to have caused.
:| so you're saying that Ariel Sharon is responsible for the suicide bombings against Israel????????????

:s :s
 
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Admin #34
^Eagle^ said:
:| so you're saying that Ariel Sharon is responsible for the suicide bombings against Israel????????????

:s :s
Bingo!

Sure he didn't plot the suicide bombings, but he certainly knew what the reaction of the more radical elements would be when he plotted out his handling of the Palestinians. You can't fan the fires of hate without expecting to get a little burnt. But regardless of the deaths, the sufferings, the spilling of blood and the maiming that he knew would be inflicted on Israelis by his actions, he conitinued.

And people like you ^Eagle^, cheer him on as Israelies, soldiers, women, the elderly, children, die in the name of Sharon's political career.
 

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#35
Jim Boy said:
Bingo!

Sure he didn't plot the suicide bombings, but he certainly knew what the reaction of the more radical elements would be when he plotted out his handling of the Palestinians. You can't fan the fires of hate without expecting to get a little burnt. But regardless of the deaths, the sufferings, the spilling of blood and the maiming that he knew would be inflicted on Israelis by his actions, he conitinued.

And people like you ^Eagle^, cheer him on as Israelies, soldiers, women, the elderly, children, die in the name of Sharon's political career.
I think to Sharon what's important isnt Peace,but the perception among Israelis that he's fighting the 'Terrorists'.
 

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#36
Sharon is a terrorist has been since he was a teenager. Eagle, Google Unit 101 and learn. Troops under his command have executed prisoners in the 56 67 and 73 Wars.
In the 50s he was directly responsible for the execution of Arab village sheiks in front of the families during 'retelliation raids. Troops directly under his command where responsible for the widespread destruction of civilan homes and infrastructure in 67 and 73 Wars. And we all know about his crowning effort in Lebanon

Sharon was every bit as bad if not worse than anything Arafat ever did.
 

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#37
Bombers 2003 said:
I think to Sharon what's important isnt Peace,but the perception among Israelis that he's fighting the 'Terrorists'.
I would have to say this is the most perceptive 2 lines in this thread. Politicians dont do things because they are good for the country. Politicians do things because they are politically good for the party they represent. Staying in power and creating political barriers to your opposition is what counts. Sharon will mouth the right words so that you hear what you want to hear and I hear what I want to hear.
 

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#38
BlueMark said:
In the 50s he was directly responsible for the execution of Arab village sheiks in front of the families during 'retelliation raids.
I dont know much about Ariel Sharon before he became the PM, so can someone else take this one...?

BlueMark said:
Sharon was every bit as bad if not worse than anything Arafat ever did.
Arafat had been responsible for the deaths of more Jews than anyone since Hitler and is an embarassment to the Palestinian people. Now, i acknowledge the fact that Arik is close-to far right wing(but not an extremist ie not a terrorist), but now that Arafat, the most rightist of them all, is gone Israel must proceed to elect a more moderate PM next elections who the Palestinians will respect and make peace with. Word up to Sharon for what he has done by constructing the fence which has restricted terrorist attacks, and is proceeding to pull out(although slowly) of Gaza. However, his time is up IF the Palestinian people chose a moderate leader.
 

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#39
PerthCrow said:
I would have to say this is the most perceptive 2 lines in this thread. Politicians dont do things because they are good for the country. Politicians do things because they are politically good for the party they represent. Staying in power and creating political barriers to your opposition is what counts. Sharon will mouth the right words so that you hear what you want to hear and I hear what I want to hear.
Fully agree with most parts...The aim of a politician(if they want to be relected) is to confuse the public so much that they just vote them. This is what kerry tried to do - he opposed the war in Iraq, and at the same time promised more troops than Bush and thus more war
 

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#41
PerthCrow said:
I would have to say this is the most perceptive 2 lines in this thread. Politicians dont do things because they are good for the country. Politicians do things because they are politically good for the party they represent. Staying in power and creating political barriers to your opposition is what counts. Sharon will mouth the right words so that you hear what you want to hear and I hear what I want to hear.
hear' hear'
 
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#42
There's no doubt that there have been people who can be described as terrorists who have subsequently changed and become diplomats who worked for peace. Nelson Mandela was one, Begin another. Anwar Sadat once collaborated with the Nazis but became a great statesman when he took enormous risks to make peace between Egypt and Israel. His example should have been a shining light to other Arab leaders. Sharon has always been a tough soldier and, although I'm not a fan, I don't regard him as a terrorist and it would be worthwhile for the Palestinians to listen to what he's saying and take note of what he's doing. Sharon is fighting the right wing of the Likud Party because he want's to lay the groundwork for peace. It's up to the Palestinians to make him put up or shut up if they don't think he's sincere.

The problem with Arafat is that he started off a terrorist, announced that he had foresaken violence, involved himself in a peace process in which he was all over the place - sometimes talking peace, other times making threats, tacitly supporting suicide bombers and going back to talking peace. In the end he let it all go down the drain and became a terrorist again. His biggest victims were his own people - he screwed them to the wall and left them without much else to do but play out the farces of the last few weeks - the argy bargy of the ten days before he died, the hooded goons at the funeral and the attempted assassination of the only people who are trying to get a peaceful resolution.
 

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Thread starter #43
MGREG said:
Arafat certainly was a terrorist but no more so than Menachim Begin or Ariel Sharon.
Normally I agree with you MGREG, but how exactly is this the case?

Begin and Sharon never deliberately targeted civilians. Arafat killed kindergarten children, Olympians and a wheelchair-bound 75 year old.

There is no comparison between Begin and Arafat.

The responses from BlueMark are predictable (Sabra and Chatilla etc., which it is true Sharon didn't prevent just as UN peacekeepers didn't prevent Rwanda or Srebrenica) but give it your best shot anyway guys.
 

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Thread starter #44
BlueBoy83 said:
im usually in agreance with you!

but not on this issue!!!

the palestinians are sssssoooo opressed by the israelies its a joke ... watched a program on SBS about it the other week
Well I guess I shouldn't argue with you, because clearly your superior knowledge means I'm no competition for you.

... if you lived in his shoes and have had to dealt with the oppression that the palestinians have to deal with every day by the isralies you would hate them too!!!!
If I lived in his shoes (which thankfully I didn't) I would have stayed in Egypt which is where he was born and I wouldn't have become a child-murdering terrorist.

the only reason nothing has been done about this is cos half of america is run by the jews ... so they protect israell ... but the truth of the matter is the israelie's are cruel and inhumane to the palestinians!!!!
Is that right? Because last time I checked the 'red' states had barely any Jews in them and most Jews voted Democrat. And there are 7 million Jews out of 280 million people. But hey if you like conspiracy theories, go ahead. You're not the first to start conspiracy theories like this - Hitler, the Tsars of Russia and Arafat have all said it before.

By the way, what do you think of the fact that the Palestinian lobby has hijacked the UN so that basically all it does is attack Israel? Or does it not concern you that the body that supposedly represents the entire world does nothing about Sudan while pising billions of dollars up against the wall for the Palestinians?

PS: i agree to an extent arafat has done a lot of wrong things ... it was funny reading the israeli foreign ministers comment ... but the problem rests with both sides and currently the oppression the palestinians suffer is pretty horendous.
I think you mean the Israeli justice minister, if you're talking about the comments I'm thinking of - his name's Tommy Lapid, although he probably won't be a minister by the end of this week.
 

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#45
MillerCHF.
You say the majority of states that voted for Kerry have small jewish populations. What about New York and California?,which both have large jewish populations?.
 

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#46
MillerCHF said:
Begin and Sharon never deliberately targeted civilians. Arafat killed kindergarten children, Olympians and a wheelchair-bound 75 year old.
Perhaps an argument over rules of engagement, certainly their has been (in the best light for Iraeli's) could best be described as rouge elements of IDF who have targeted civillians including many children. And targeting hammas leaders is defendable as long as you don't kill too many civillans, but that is where sharon has probably gone too far, he doesn't really care about any any innocent casualties.
 

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#47
Qsaint said:
Perhaps an argument over rules of engagement, certainly their has been (in the best light for Iraeli's) could best be described as rouge elements of IDF who have targeted civillians including many children. And targeting hammas leaders is defendable as long as you don't kill too many civillans, but that is where sharon has probably gone too far, he doesn't really care about any any innocent casualties.
By deliberately using women and children as human shields, it is the Palestinians who are in violation of international law.

Palestinian terrorist leaders recognise that it is in their interest for both Palestinians and Israelis to be killed, and they try and maximise casualties.
 

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#48
MillerCHF said:
Begin and Sharon never deliberately targeted civilians.

There is no comparison between Begin and Arafat.

The responses from BlueMark are predictable (Sabra and Chatilla etc., which it is true Sharon didn't prevent just as UN peacekeepers didn't prevent Rwanda or Srebrenica) but give it your best shot anyway guys.

Both Begin and Sharon are terrorists and murderers in the purest sense of the word MillerCHF. Begin was a leader in the Irgun organisation that actively targetted Arab civilains as did Sharon in Unit 101. Sharons men also executed prisoners in 56 67 and 73.

The difference between Begin and Arafat is zero. Both were terrorist chieftans who rose to lead thier nations
 

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#49
Tim, The IDF used Palestinian women as shields during the fighting in Jenin a couple of years ago. The Sharyet Matkel pose as Palestinians within crowds to 'paint' targets during 'targetted assinations' They also posed as women to kill a PA leader in Beirut. Managed to get themsleves into a firefight with the Lebanese Police during the operation. Would have been a surreal experience engaging in a firefight with a number of heavily armed men dressed as women.
 

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#50
Jim Boy said:
Bingo!

Sure he didn't plot the suicide bombings, but he certainly knew what the reaction of the more radical elements would be when he plotted out his handling of the Palestinians. You can't fan the fires of hate without expecting to get a little burnt. But regardless of the deaths, the sufferings, the spilling of blood and the maiming that he knew would be inflicted on Israelis by his actions, he conitinued.

And people like you ^Eagle^, cheer him on as Israelies, soldiers, women, the elderly, children, die in the name of Sharon's political career.
Jimboy - you should read Dennis Ross's book "The Missing Peace".
 
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