True Justice: Arafat dead without achieving his goal

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Admin #51
GuruJane said:
Jimboy - you should read Dennis Ross's book "The Missing Peace".
Maybe I will - read the reviews on Amazon, looks like the nut cases on both sides hate it and I really need to brush up on the details of the middle-east. Mind you, being a diplomat makes me slightly concerned. They're like the police, they can't let their own personal beliefs or opinions get in the way of their duty. Their job is to convince, not themselves, but the people they deal with.
 

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GuruJane

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#52
Bombers 2003 said:
MillerCHF.
You say the majority of states that voted for Kerry have small jewish populations. What about New York and California?,which both have large jewish populations?.
Bombers, I think that was the point MillerCHF was making. The vast majority of the jewish vote went to Kerry, not W.

In the US the "red" states are republican.
 

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#53
Lestat said:
Grolm37,

I'll be the first to admit that Arafat had many faults, and I of all people think him to have outserved his purpose years ago.

However...the fact of the matter is that Arafat is the one man that put the Palestinian issue on the map. He singlehandedly made the world look up and do something....Palestine went from a refugee issue to a political world stage issue.

Back in 1969...when Arafat was made leader of the executive council of the PLO (this is before Arafat was in the picture)....Golda Meir (she was the Israeli Prime Minister in case you didn't know), got up on the world stage, in the UN security council, and with the straight face told the world that the Palestinian people didn't exist.

She said...with a straight face that there were no Palestinian people. Many zionists even today agree with her (just read some of MillerCHF and BananaBenders posts).

This was before Arafat was in the picture. So what makes you think that Arafats death will open the door for peace??

israel don't want peace. They want the total surrender and destruction of the Palestinian people. It is for this reason that they hate Arafat so much. He was always a thorn in there side.

Israel don't want peace. What they want is the whole of the west bank, whilst the remainder of the Palestinians live in a prison which is Gaza strip, where Israel control all borders and air space.

After 1993, when the Oslo Peace accords were signed...within the next 5 years, the Israeli's built over 500 settlements in the Westbank alone (gush-shalom.com).

Now is the act of a nation that wants peace.

pfft!.
Good when you drop the hyperbole, Lestat. Interesting post from you.

I'd like to hear your views on Abu Ala, Abu Mazzen taking over the PLA?
 

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#54
Lestat said:
No there wasn't.

If you mean that myth that is 'Barak's Peace offer' then it was far less then all of westbank, and Gaza, and East Jerusalem was not offered.

I have posted Barak's peace offer on another thread (with no reply from our resident zionists mind you)...go take a look, then tell me who in there right mind would accept this offer.

Acceptance of that offer was in reality a total surrender of the rights of the Palestinians, and denial of a viable palestinian state, the the palestinian people.

Which is exactly what the zionists are striving for.
Lestat, you really must read Dennis Ross's book "The Missing Peace." It's very long, extremely detailed and authoritative. I don't think you'll be able to put it down.

It has extraordinary revelations of the behind the scenes negotiations that went on between Rabin and Assad long before Oslo even came into the picture. And then it goes on to record what happened as Ross shuttled between the Palestinian and Israeli leadership during the prime ministerships of Rabin, Peres, Netanyahu (the negotiations of the Wye Agreement - oh my!) Barak, Camp David right up to Taba. He gives day to day accounts of these big meetings.

Ross had an extraordinary rapport with the Arabs ( I say extraordinary because Ross is a practising jew). As a result the stars of the book are people like Assad, Arafat, Abu Ala, Abu Massen, Mohammed Dahlan, Sereb Erekat and so on, although his characterisations of the Israeli prime ministers and their varying personalities and how this impacted on the negotiations ...

Must stop raving. Just get it!
 

GuruJane

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#55
Jim Boy said:
Maybe I will - read the reviews on Amazon, looks like the nut cases on both sides hate it and I really need to brush up on the details of the middle-east. Mind you, being a diplomat makes me slightly concerned.
If you are a diplomat, you will be even more rivetted.

They're like the police, they can't let their own personal beliefs or opinions get in the way of their duty. Their job is to convince, not themselves, but the people they deal with.
I think you'll find Ross is a special case.

You know, I thought always thought i was pretty well informed about what went on in those years - 1991 - 2000. I knew nothing!!!
 

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#57
Jim Boy said:
Hmmm, I meant Ross was the Diplomat, you should know I am most un-diplomatic
Okay, read that wrong when you said:

Mind you, being a diplomat makes me slightly concerned
Should have known better!

Anyway, if you want to get really informed, read that book.
 
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Admin #60
GuruJane said:
What does that mean ... all care and protection but no responsibilty?
Pretty much, although it doesn't normally extend beyond parking anywhere and throwing away the parking tickets!! (buggered if I park in a tow-away zone though)
 
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