Resource Two 2nd Tier AFL Venues for Perth

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kranger

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I was reading the WAFC Strategic Facilities Plan. It has a couple of key focuses for the development of footy facilities in WA. From WAFL grounds down to regional clubs. These fields get classified by the AFL Preferred Facilities Guide 2019 as:
  1. State,
  2. Regional,
  3. Local,
  4. School and
  5. Remote Facilities.

Across each of the levels of facilities the WAFC has specific emphasis on facility development for:
  • more and improved lights (to increase usage of existing fields, such as more trainings going later into the evening, and weekday night games to open up the field on weekends);
  • women friendly changerooms (to assist making clubs welcoming to females);
  • improved ground surfaces (to handle more ground usage such as more trainings and games);
  • State level venues (for WAFL games and to host local competition finals);
  • New grounds for Perth's expanding outer suburbs.
WAFC Facilities Desires.jpeg

WAFL Desires.jpeg


But one stand out item to me, is that the WAFC desire to have what they call, '2nd Tier AFL Venues'. They actually desire to have two of them in the State, to host AFL preseason games and AFL Womens games. I haven't been able to find any sort of guide as to what these facilities would entail. But I presume they would be a step up from WAFL grounds and be at a similar standard to Marrara Stadium in Darwin or Bellerive Oval in Hobart, which I see as being a step down from the likes of the MCG, Adelaide Oval and the Metricon Stadium.

So I pose the question, where should two 2nd Tier AFL venues be developed in Perth? With consideration that the WACA Ground (despite trying to get funding for upgrades to host WAFL games), would not be available as a venue at that time of year to host AFL Womens and AFL preseason due to a cricket pitch.

Should they be upgraded existing WAFL grounds, such as Fremantle Oval, Rushton Park (Mandurah) or Arena Joondalup? Should the 2nd Tier AFL Venues be the Eagles and Freo training grounds? Should 2nd Tier AFL Venues be new grounds in the new/future suburbs of growth of Yanchep and Rockingham?

I have some thoughts of my own, but I'm letting others express their ideas first.

But I will say, it seems like a waste in terms of facility development, having East Fremantle and South Fremantle based at different grounds that are so close together. They could share a venue to develop it up together (like Subiaco and East Perth at Leederville Oval), or one of the clubs move to cover Perths neglected south eastern suburbs. I pontificated in this graphic, moving East Freo to Cockburn, sharing with the Dockers and re-aligning their zones to better cater for the south eastern suburbs. But this doesn't answer the question, where should Perth's two 2nd Tier AFL venues be?

WAFL Ground Circles Comparison.jpg
 

kranger

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I would be probably just add, I would think four key factors as to where the 2nd Tier AFL Venues should be located is:

• Close to the general population (so not up in Northam);
• Other tenants to use it (so it’s not empty after the AFL Women’s and Preseason period);
• Near a train station (for easy access); and
• Near shops and cafes and pubs (for something to do before and after games).
 

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kranger

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What function is a 2nd tier venue supposed to serve?
Let me quote my post, to answer your question.

But one stand out item to me, is that the WAFC desire to have what they call, '2nd Tier AFL Venues'. They actually desire to have two of them in the State, to host AFL preseason games and AFL Womens games./QUOTE]
 

Johnny Bananas

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New grounds for Perth's expanding outer suburbs.
Slightly off topic, but where do you think these could be located? Would Ellenbrook get a look in, or Armadale?
EDIT: Noticed you said Yanchep and Rockingham too, makes sense.

So I pose the question, where should two 2nd Tier AFL venues be developed in Perth?
Do they have to be in Perth? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the WAFC oversees all WA leagues and not just the WAFL, right? If that's the case, perhaps Hands Oval in Bunbury could be one of the two.

• Close to the general population (so not up in Northam);
• Other tenants to use it (so it’s not empty after the AFL Women’s and Preseason period);
• Near a train station (for easy access); and
• Near shops and cafes and pubs (for something to do before and after games).
Pretty much all the WAFL venues fit this criteria except East Fremantle Oval, don't they? And perhaps Lathlain.

If I were picking two it'd be Fremantle Oval and Bassendean.
 
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Rob

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Would have thought Fremantle Oval is a no brainer if they're looking to upgrade an existing ground for AFLW team. It's by far the worst ground in the league but it is in a decent location. I suspect any development would have major council objections to get resolved though, and that alone may not make it worth it.
And just ask West Coast where they want to play AFLW games.

No point building a venue in Yanchep or Armadale if there's no one that wants to play there.
 

kranger

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Do they have to be in Perth? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the WAFC oversees all WA leagues and not just the WAFL, right? If that's the case, perhaps Hands Oval in Bunbury could be one of the two.
Valid point, I had meant to say WA every time, but I fell into the lazy habit and wrote Perth instead.
 

kranger

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That is an answer, you dont know beyond AFLW.
Yep, it doesn’t say anything beyond AFLW and AFL preseason matches.

As a standalone venue with those matches only, it wouldn’t have much of a purpose.

Which is why I think developing a ground that has other purposes, to this 2nd Tier standard, would be best. But where and for what other purposes is what I’m curious to hear about from others.
 

MrWoollie

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If you want to upgrade existing venues that the two AFL teams might be happy to use for their AFLW games, the WACA for WC and Fremantle Oval for Freo would make sense. The biggest problem I can see with the WACA is they resized it so it would be very short for any AFL pre-season games. Probably long enough for AFLW though. If I remember it's now about 10 metres shorter than the SCG?
Joondalup has a lot going for it but is about as far as you can get from the AFL teams bases.
Bassendean has the railway access and would be another option.

EF oval has always been a stain on the underpants of life. Difficult to get to and horrible spectator facilities. EF should have moved to an upgraded and shared Fremantle Oval 20 years ago. This just might be the cattle prod they need.
 

Kwality

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If its strictly for the AFL clubs, the choice should be as close as possible to the new premises both have recently built.

Unnecessary duplication (AFL or WAFL) in the post covid era should be avoided like the plague :'(.
 

scalives

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[QUOTE="EF oval has always been a stain on the underpants of life. Difficult to get to and horrible spectator facilities. EF should have moved to an upgraded and shared Fremantle Oval 20 years ago. This just might be the cattle prod they need.
[/QUOTE]

EF oval is getting redeveloped. And yeah the WACA would be the logical to uprade to AFL standard.
 

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kranger

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Rushton Park and The WACA
If you want to upgrade existing venues that the two AFL teams might be happy to use for their AFLW games, the WACA for WC and Fremantle Oval for Freo would make sense. The biggest problem I can see with the WACA is they resized it so it would be very short for any AFL pre-season games. Probably long enough for AFLW though. If I remember it's now about 10 metres shorter than the SCG?
The WACA ground has previous funding from the Feds, and today got funding from the state.

It will upgrade the facilities, decrease the capacity, and lengthen the field for footy, there’s a link available in my quote below from the WACA thread in the stadium forum on BigFooty.

The problem is, cricket is still played there during the AFL Women’s and AFL preseason, so it wouldn’t be available for this purpose, since it is still the state facility for cricket first and foremost.

Here’s a link to the Premiers Announcement.



The McGowan Government has announced one of the most significant investments in sport and community infrastructure in Western Australian history, with a $300 million package as part of the WA Recovery Plan.

The historic plan will benefit a range of projects throughout the State and create a pipeline of WA jobs, with local small businesses and contractors also set to benefit.

The $130 million sports facilities package includes $30 million towards the major redevelopment of the iconic WACA Ground, including a community aquatic centre.

The State Government funding matches the Federal Government's contribution, and is contingent on the City of Perth providing a funding contribution towards the community project.

View attachment 925494
 

kranger

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Do they have to be in Perth? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the WAFC oversees all WA leagues and not just the WAFL, right? If that's the case, perhaps Hands Oval in Bunbury could be one of the two.
Looks like along with the $30m committed to the WACA ground, Hands Oval in Bunbury is getting $5m as well and Joondalup Arena is getting some lighting and shading upgrades too.


• $1.5 million allocated to upgrade existing halogen lights at HBF Arena (Joondalup) to LED lighting;
• $350,000 for permanent shade installed at leisure spaces at HBF Arena, providing sun protection for patrons;
• $5 million for the Hands Oval rebuild in Bunbury;

I smell a state election coming.
 

TWLS

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Looks like along with the $30m committed to the WACA ground, Hands Oval in Bunbury is getting $5m as well and Joondalup Arena is getting some lighting and shading upgrades too.


• $1.5 million allocated to upgrade existing halogen lights at HBF Arena (Joondalup) to LED lighting;
• $350,000 for permanent shade installed at leisure spaces at HBF Arena, providing sun protection for patrons;
• $5 million for the Hands Oval rebuild in Bunbury;

I smell a state election coming.
Re the March 2021 election - The current Govt is a shoe in at this time.
Wonder where the idea came from for these two 2nd Tier AFL Venues. So if we consider Optus as First Tier now way above every other WA venue where does that leave the WAFC.
Do they look to the future with Perth going North in one direction and sort of South in the other and build/upgrade 2nd Tier Venues catering for that.
Or do they stick to the present and stay with for example - The inner city WACA and inner City of Fremantle Oval.
Australians as a whole are notoriously deficient in planning for the future but looks like that is changing.
 

kranger

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So this is what limited information I can find about the Hands Memorial Oval works down in Bunbury, that today had state government funding committed.

An article from last year with locals talking about a proposed redevelopment, but with limited details.


The City of Bunbury approves its budget for the next financial year and it includes designing the redevelopment, so it seems like this won’t be built immediately.


Other highlights of the budget include:
  • Plan and design of Hands Oval redevelopment;
This might be a previous plan, but it probably gives the general idea of the vision.


2CCE6CFD-6548-4DBC-99B0-F5F91D6368FC.jpeg
 

kranger

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If the WACA Ground does get this development, I see that to the benefit of the WAFC, as it means their can be a boutique oval in the CBD should they ever want to use it. Instead the WAFC could focus their attention away from the CBD.

I imagine the WAFC have three pathways:

• coverage (which I’ll discuss now);
• consolidated (which I’ll discuss another time); and
• hybrid (which would be a combination of the two.

As has been mentioned, Perth is going to grow, north to Two Rocks, and south to merge with Mandurah.

This image from the PlanWA map website, shows where new homes are going to be built and colour coded by expected timeframe.

45ADC1D6-43CB-4B13-A47F-18C7A623A96A.jpeg


In the ‘coverage’ pathway for facilities development, the WAFC should look to this future population layout to develop one of their 2nd Tier AFL venues in the south, and one in the north. I’m thinking Joondalup and Rockingham, which will both be connected by train and a town centre in their area.

This could be the strategy to get all the current facilities upgraded, as well as the new 2nd Tier AFL venues.


Short Term
• WACA Ground can be used as a Tier 2 venue when available;
• East Freo move down to Rockingham and their new field becomes the Tier 2 venue of the south (paid for, by the local developer contributions for the new housings);
• Shark Park can be redeveloped to be community sports fields;
• South Freo‘s zone becomes all the area to the north and west of Cockburn; whilst East Freo’s zone becomes from south of Cockburn to Rockingham area;
• Joondalup Arena is the focus as a Tier 2 venue for the north;
• Subiaco temporarily remain at Leederville Oval to help get it redeveloped;
• Perth temporarily remain at Lathlain Park to help get it redeveloped;
• Bassendean Oval gets redeveloped with funding from land sales; and
• Fremantle Oval gets redeveloped through the interest from the City of Fremantle.

Long Term
• Perth later moves to Gosnells with a new field, that caters for the south-east corridor (paid for, by the local developer contributions for the new housings);
• East Freo lose the Armadale area from their catchment zone; Perth pick up the Armadale area but lose the South Perth / Vic Park area; East Perth pick up the South Perth / Vic Park area for their catchment zone;
• Subiaco later move to Yanchep along with their zone, leap frogging over West Perth and what they did 30 years ago, to a new field for the far northern suburbs(paid for, by the local developer contributions for the new housings);
• West Perth gets Subiaco’s and East Perth’s old northern sections; whilst Claremont get Subiaco‘s old southern section.

This would get every club in a venue with acceptable facilities, and make the layout of all of the grounds look like this.

D6D3D4A8-901F-4593-AA9B-004715DF0F1C.jpeg


Next time I’ll talk about the consolidated venue approach.
 
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kranger

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I see in this mornings newspaper, the WAFC are looking to host the WAFL GF at Arena Joondalup to prevent any clashes at Optus Stadium with a potential AFL Finals hub.

At the community oval the GF is said to raise $100,000, to be split between the 9 WAFL teams, instead of costing $100,000 to host at Optus.

That could be another event that gets played at the 2nd Tier AFL venues. Rotate it yearly between the two.
 

Teen Wolf

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Tier 2 is not an official AFL term in this context, to my knowledge (although now I'm wondering if that's recently changed). It's a classification given to Australian cricket venues that meet standards for hosting "A Series, Tour Matches, Women’s International Series, Domestic One Day Cup, Sheffield Shield, BBL" fixtures.

The footy equivalent is Category 4, which is for "Venues seeking AFL pre-season competition matches, AFLW matches or State League Centres of Excellence". In a city home to one or more AFLW teams, having an available ground that meets the standard for hosting AFLW matches is a non-negotiable, regardless of whether the league "once got a good crowd" (to quote an earlier imbecilic post) and regardless of whether it's put to good use for the rest of the year.

But, yes, the first question to ask is how many venues are actually needed. Sharing a home ground is good enough for male Eagles and Dockers, after all. The impulse to excessively fund several underwhelming options is not surprising, though. It has already permeated Melbourne/Victoria (and I note the Western Bulldogs couldn't even be bothered to play an AFLW practice match in Ballarat this year) instead of focusing on an efficient single solution.
 

TWLS

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Tier 2 is not an official AFL term in this context, to my knowledge (although now I'm wondering if that's recently changed). It's a classification given to Australian cricket venues that meet standards for hosting "A Series, Tour Matches, Women’s International Series, Domestic One Day Cup, Sheffield Shield, BBL" fixtures.

The footy equivalent is Category 4, which is for "Venues seeking AFL pre-season competition matches, AFLW matches or State League Centres of Excellence". In a city home to one or more AFLW teams, having an available ground that meets the standard for hosting AFLW matches is a non-negotiable, regardless of whether the league "once got a good crowd" (to quote an earlier imbecilic post) and regardless of whether it's put to good use for the rest of the year.

But, yes, the first question to ask is how many venues are actually needed. Sharing a home ground is good enough for male Eagles and Dockers, after all. The impulse to excessively fund several underwhelming options is not surprising, though. It has already permeated Melbourne/Victoria (and I note the Western Bulldogs couldn't even be bothered to play an AFLW practice match in Ballarat this year) instead of focusing on an efficient single solution.
Have to answer this post.
A WAFC official used the term - This is WA not Victoria. Who cares if its not official jargon from AFL House.
That aside excellent research Kranger - Your efforts to dissect Perths future and footys future just outstanding.
 

Teen Wolf

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Have to answer this post.
A WAFC official used the term - This is WA not Victoria. Who cares if its not official jargon from AFL House.
Not sure why you felt the need to answer with something totally counterproductive. The standards for hosting AFLW matches (A = Australia, in case you didn't know) don't change from state to state.

For anybody who does care about wanting to find out what those standards are, my suggestion is clear: look for information regarding "AFL Category 4 Venues". Appendix 1 of the aforementioned AFL Preferred Facilities Guidelines would be the starting point.
 

big_e

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It won't be the WACA as they are still playing Shield cricket well into March.

And FWIW, Basso Council and Swans are currently working on a development plan to upgrade a lot of the facilities at Bassendean Oval. It could have been done years ago but the Council got into bed with Landcorp, who came up with a plan that pissed off just about everyone.
 

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