News Two AFL executives resigning

[Jivlain]

It's only one side that could affect us..

...and I see now that a 3rd exec could be in trouble as well. Hope Gil's rap sheet is clean.

When do these people do any work for heavens sake?....and paid a hefty wage to boot!

According to Caro the original reports were about Lethlean's affair, but then people who already in-the-know (and unimpressed) about Simkiss' affair thought it was about that and started talking. Sounding like this could prompt a bit of a clean-out of some bad kulcha at AFL house.

 

[Skoob]

Wasn't implying it was okay. Personally I'm indifferent and I don't really care what two consenting adults get up to in their bedrooms/offices/cars/bushes... however, office affairs have happened in the past and it will happen again in the future. Not a lot that can be done about it TBH.

Not accepting it as normal/acceptable is a start, and showing those who indulge, the door in a process to change that line of thought and behaviour even better. Better than just shrugging and saying "Oh, another manager with his dick in his staff, oh well".

 

[royboys4eva]

Forget getting a ticket to the Grand Final - how does one get a ticket to the AFL Xmas Party

 

[Fitzroy bears]

It still comes down to the women involved being adults, at what age is it considered a sackable offence to shag a co worker or employee? There would be a few politicians/workers/business men around who would be in trouble if shagging a younger employee was a reason for letting someone go.

Are the 2 ladies involved just helpless victims of dirty old men?

I have to agree with you here. However, thought they tendered their resignations, so in that case, fell on their own sword. No pun intended. If they were sacked you would surely have grounds for wrongful dismissal. Not sure how the AFL could sack on moral flaw considering clubs keep and mentor player who have broken actual laws.

 

[Caiphus]

If it was an abuse of power then sexual harassment charges would be in place, or it would have been swept under the rug and the execs would have been moved out quietly. This had a direct effect on other people inside the organisation and was beginning to reflect on the organisation badly so they got ahead of it before rumours became widespread and are trying to turn it into a PR win by moving early, decisively and controlling the narrative. This is classic crisis plan comms and most people will forget about it in a matter of weeks rather than have it fester and build up over months. They know a large number of people will be saying "this is none of our business" or "this has always happened and will keep happening". This is the pragmatic decision that stops it taking on a life of its own and allows the AFL to move onto something else. It will all be washed away after a couple of mediocre matches this weekend and a bigger AFL story next week.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

If you were a boss of a large organisation and your most important employees were having affairs with women in the office I think it'd be fair enough to question what they're putting their energy into while at work. On top of that you'd worry about any pressure they've put on these women and how it effects their work.

Only if it was occurring on the premises. Or if it were effecting their work, which both of them thought it was so they resigned. So non issue

 

[Fitzroy bears]

It's really a non issue as the execs made the call anyway. However it would be naive to believe that this doesn't occur in all organizations for both male and female bosses. This is a moral issue that shouldn't involve the organization unless laws or company policies have been infringed.

Edit: I think it would be terribly patronizing for male or female employees for an organization to have opinions on their social decisions

 

[Carlos Danger]

It's really a non issue as the execs made the call anyway. However it would be naive to believe that this doesn't occur in all organizations for both male and female bosses. This is a moral issue that shouldn't involve the organization unless laws or company policies have been infringed.

Edit: I think it would be terribly patronizing for male or female employees for an organization to have opinions on their social decisions

It does happen in a lot of organisations, but the afl is a governing body. Think of it like a government organisation, it can't have people power tripping a having sex with employees - it pisses many people off & they need people on their side - it impacts image, which in turn impacts sponsorship $ plus I've mentioned corruptability concerns already.

If it happened in a small private business perhaps nobody cares. But the ethical responsibility from one organisation to another is different & the afl needs to be the most ethical out of the whole football industry or things will start to fall apart.

 

[M Malice]

A few final thoughts on this-

While the two men involved tendered their resignations I think it would be naive to think they were not tapped on the shoulder.

The AFL in this situation are not acting from a righteous, altruistic community leader position although that is what they would like to portray, it is all about perception, if they thought it wouldn't leak they would have done nothing IMO.

It's been said a couple of times but I think we shouldn't be painting the women involved as near helpless victims of lecherous males, IMO that is incredibly patronizing, from what I have read the women did not make a complaint.

 

[MacMum]

...and a hypothetical just for a moment, and further to my comment in post a few above...

Imagine the fall-out and ramifications IF Gil was having/or did have an affair too.....wow, would nearly bring the place down you would think.

Talk about bringing the game in to disrepute, on top of everything else.

..all hypothetical mind you

 

[Caiphus]

The problem with the "it takes two to tango" mentality is that it means people in power can refuse to acknowledge that they are taking advantage of a power imbalance. Sure it's one of the perks men are looking for other than wealth when they pursue high powered jobs but there is a reason why legally pursuing subordinates from a position of power is considered sexual harassment/misconduct. Subordinates can pursue from below but then management are supposed to declare their conflicts of interest and have everything above board to neutralise accusations of favouritism, the way they would if they have a recognised partner in a subordinate role. If it was just about sex it wouldn't be an issue but rarely are these things just about sex. We have two men who have taken responsibility and yet we still have people trying to diminish it or paint the women involved as demonic honey traps when we don't know anything about them and paint the men as wronged parties, that's a primary example of systemic sexism.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I would have thought the human race has evolved to a stage where we can control our lust.

Technology and society has evolved, humans are the same as they were thousands of years ago.

 

[M Malice]

Technology and society has evolved, humans are the same as they were thousands of years ago.

Yep, evolution is an extremely slow process, if it wasn't for our desire/lust we would have ceased to exist as a species millennia ago. With the technology we possess now though we could probably survive without lust and desire and get by with test tubes.

 

[MacMum]

Yep, us females no longer need you guys! We can earn our own money and if financially well placed, can have a child without needing a man to help her raise the child.......and don't even need a man to create that child.

AT LAST, WE ARE FREE!!!!

Throw away your bra's ladies!

...oops forgot, that was done 50 years ago.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

A few final thoughts on this-

While the two men involved tendered their resignations I think it would be naive to think they were not tapped on the shoulder.

The AFL in this situation are not acting from a righteous, altruistic community leader position although that is what they would like to portray, it is all about perception, if they thought it wouldn't leak they would have done nothing IMO.

It's been said a couple of times but I think we shouldn't be painting the women involved as near helpless victims of lecherous males, IMO that is incredibly patronizing, from what I have read the women did not make a complaint.

Well said

 

[carnthemlions]

A few final thoughts on this-

While the two men involved tendered their resignations I think it would be naive to think they were not tapped on the shoulder.

The AFL in this situation are not acting from a righteous, altruistic community leader position although that is what they would like to portray, it is all about perception, if they thought it wouldn't leak they would have done nothing IMO.

It's been said a couple of times but I think we shouldn't be painting the women involved as near helpless victims of lecherous males, IMO that is incredibly patronizing, from what I have read the women did not make a complaint.

I'm kinda confused as to what it is about the response to this issue that appears to bother you so much?
Unless you're some kind of uber libertarian, I have no idea how you can justify this whole "two consenting adults" illusion given the various issues involved (organisational hierarchy and credibility, power dynamics etc). Don't be naive.

 

[M Malice]

I'm kinda confused as to what it is about the response to this issue that appears to bother you so much?
Unless you're some kind of uber libertarian, I have no idea how you can justify this whole "two consenting adults" illusion given the various issues involved (organisational hierarchy and credibility, power dynamics etc). Don't be naive.

Just putting my view forward carnthemlions, it doesn't bother me at all, I posted it as an aside in the Random thread and it was then started as a thread of it's own by a mod because it generated so much discussion. I'll leave my post that you quoted as my overall take on shagate.

I gave up on politics 30 odd years ago, I would class my political views as uber apathetic.

 

[Viceregal]

Yep, us females no longer need you guys! We can earn our own money and if financially well placed, can have a child without needing a man to help her raise the child.......and don't even need a man to create that child.

AT LAST, WE ARE FREE!!!!

Shame about the demographic fallout 'though ...

 

[jackess]

Technology and society has evolved, humans are the same as they were thousands of years ago.

The way we treat each other is a lot different. Look how we treated the indigenous population of this country quite recently.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Just putting my view forward carnthemlions, it doesn't bother me at all, I posted it as an aside in the Random thread and it was then started as a thread of it's own by a mod because it generated so much discussion. I'll leave my post that you quoted as my overall take on shagate.

I gave up on politics 30 odd years ago, I would class my political views as uber apathetic.

Yeah what your angle?
You haven't been letting young girls post in the over 50s club have you?

 

[Ruse]

Are you all teenage girls with all this gossip mongering?

Who cares who other guys bang.

 

[Scubaveg]

That's one way of looking at it.
Orrr, senior management having illicit affairs with junior staff, that not only speaks about their integrity, but also clearly affected colleagues enough for them to speak out. Whether they were in love or just taking advantage of each other (or just the mangers taking advantage of their positions) it's not on in the work place, particularly when trying to hide it.

If two consenting adults and the concern is integrity etc then frankly the two ladies should be gone as well. Every bit as culpable.


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[Carlos Danger]

If two consenting adults and the concern is integrity etc then frankly the two ladies should be gone as well. Every bit as culpable.


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It's not a matter of man vs women it's the drain at the top end of the power dynamic.

The integrity of a powerful person is more significant than a low ranking employee.

If someone at richmond were to know about the affair they could ring up lethlean & say actually Simon, Houlis penalty was manifestly adequate thete will be no appeal if you know whats good for you.

Where as Mardi might get a call demanding their child get auskicker of the week

There's only one of those people that can significantly threaten the integrity of the afl... depending on how seriously you take your auskick

 

[Skoob]

If two consenting adults and the concern is integrity etc then frankly the two ladies should be gone as well. Every bit as culpable.


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It's about responsibility.
I think you would find many organisations that have rules for management, not to fraternise with junior staff. None would prohibit junior staff from mixing it with management. It is the seniors' responsibility to observe propriety.

 

[Football Pope]

Yep, us females no longer need you guys! We can earn our own money and if financially well placed, can have a child without needing a man to help her raise the child.......and don't even need a man to create that child.

AT LAST, WE ARE FREE!!!!

Throw away your bra's ladies!

...oops forgot, that was done 50 years ago.

Germain Greer's - The Female Eunuch