AFLW Two Rounds in - What have you liked, learnt or loved?

[The_Wookie]

Here we go kids.

Two rounds done - how you feeling?

Liked - its still great to see the game at the great suburban grounds of old and not the concrete edifices that we use for the mens game.
Learnt - skills are getting better, but Im not sure that bomb it inside 50 works as well as the Carlton players would like it to
Loved - Carlton getting a win over Geelong at Kardinia Park.

 

[blueiris]

There’s still a game to be played right?

 

[Mitchell Madness]

A couple of teams actually using the space across the ground, rather than kick and hope down the line.

 

[Biggie]

Feeling flat tbh

 

[The_Wookie]

There’s still a game to be played right?

theoretically yes

 

[le dominateur]

Gap between the best and strugglers is enormous.

 

[Lsta062]

Liked - Richmond’s pressure game is great to watch! To win 3 out of 4 quarters against Melbourne without Ellie Mackenzie was a step in the right direction IMO.

Learnt - Melbourne, Collingwood, Fremantle, and Adelaide are shaping up to be the contenders with Brisbane and North Melbourne probably the other challengers. Competition’s becoming a bit stagnant now in terms of the best teams though. Richmond could be one that causes a bit of surprise though so watch that space

 

[Teen Wolf]

This would be a logical time to reiterate the point I've made about Anne Hatchard previously. But she's just one of many redemption stories. In the latest blow to the talent dilution argument, along comes Tara Bohanna. Zero chance of her being on an AFLW list in a competition consisting of less than 14 teams, and yet she proved to be no less crucial in the Suns' win than prized pick Charlie Rowbottom.

Once again, greater opportunity meets greater motivation, as also seen with Geelong's belated dip into the LGFA pool. No matter the number of teams, the vast majority of teenage prodigies will always need several years in the system to come good, physically and mentally. When that means turning to the Bohannas and Rachel Kearnses, who look as if they know how to scrap all night strong, everyone's a winner.

 

[jatz14]

If your not getting distinctly better, eg West Coast, your going backwards.

 

[Teen Wolf]

If your not getting distinctly better, eg West Coast, your going backwards.

That's a rather soft way of putting it. Yesterday, West Coast off their own bat were distinctly worse than in any game last year (when they were admittedly hammered a few times, but with an injury-depleted team).

I also haven't seen anything to suggest the best teams are getting distinctly better. Once you get to a certain level, the genuine improvements tend to be subtle but they are misleadingly amplified against, say, an opponent missing key midfielders.

 

[jatz14]

That's a rather soft way of putting it. Yesterday, West Coast off their own bat were distinctly worse than in any game last year (when they were admittedly hammered a few times, but with an injury-depleted team).

I also haven't seen anything to suggest the best teams are getting distinctly better. Once you get to a certain level, the genuine improvements tend to be subtle but they are misleadingly amplified against, say, an opponent missing key midfielders.

I think the improvements are quite marked, but are having less and less of an impact on the game visually. Take marking as a simple example. You go from dropped chest marks, and relatively few players who can take a genuine contested mark. As the rate of fumbling, and the number of contested marks rises, this has an obvious affect on the look of the game. But after that, improved marking has less and less of an impact. Number of contested marks doesn't really rise, but how hard they are to take does, as the players you are competing with are also getting better. So, if your a key forward taking contested marks, taking the same number of marks year after year your improving, at about the same rate at which the comp is improving. If you stay the same, or only slightly improve, your competitiveness in marking contests will decline, and the gem is the player that improves faster than the comp has.

An example from the Eagles is Ashley Atkins, the key forward that has taken 1 mark in 2 games. She is now too small for a key forward, and not fast enough to make up for it. She is probably a better mark than she was in her first year, but there is no way she is going to take many marks this year, to many opposition footballers have passed her by in marking. She improved, but the comp improved more. The Eagles have lots of players like that.

 

[Teen Wolf]

So, if your a key forward taking contested marks, taking the same number of marks year after year your improving, at about the same rate at which the comp is improving.

I don't know how anybody could claim that without considering the service and attention the player is getting from year to year.

That's why your Atkins example is absurd. Far as I recall she didn't get beaten in the air once on Sunday, despite being regularly outnumbered by Heslop and Ahrens (1 mark each), and most kicks "to" her were blind disadvantageous hacks.

There was no sign that "opposition footballers have passed her by in marking" (note the moment she found herself in a 1-on-3 marking contest, used speed and body positioning to earn a free and kick a goal). The reason she's unlikely to take many marks this year is because, more than anything, stats are a reflection of tactics.

 

[GC2015]

Learnt that the compromised nature of the current AFLW draft system is going to make it very difficult for any expansion team that is not Victorian to climb the ladder. IMO Charlie Rowbottom was best on ground in just her second AFLW game and was very influential in us getting the W on Sunday. There's no doubt in my mind that we would have lost that game had she not been playing for us that day but what if Charlie had not elected to be taken by a Queensland team and stuck to Victorian teams in the lead up to last year's draft? Rowbottom would likely be playing for Geelong right now if that had been the case then Gold Coast probably would have selected Teagan Levi as the number 1 pick, who is now inactive and playing for the national Rugby 7s team.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the two teams which have struggled the most since entering the AFLW are Gold Coast and West Coast, which happen to be the only two non-Victorian expansion teams so far. How is an upcoming expansion team like the Sydney Swans expected to put together a competitive AFLW team when they will be almost entirely restricted to recruiting NSW players and most of the best players from NSW already play for the Giants?

I really think the AFL needs to seriously look into ways to ensure the best junior talent in the country is going to the worst performed teams that year, regardless of which state they are based in. It's the best way to ensure a competitive league. The Suns are a perfect example of this - last year they were pretty awful but already look far more competitive this season and you'd have to say Charlie Rowbottom is a big part of that improvement.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Learnt that the compromised nature of the current AFLW draft system is going to make it very difficult for any expansion team that is not Victorian to climb the ladder. IMO Charlie Rowbottom was best on ground in just her second AFLW game and was very influential in us getting the W on Sunday. There's no doubt in my mind that we would have lost that game had she not been playing for us that day but what if Charlie had not elected to be taken by a Queensland team and stuck to Victorian teams in the lead up to last year's draft? Rowbottom would likely be playing for Geelong right now if that had been the case then Gold Coast probably would have selected Teagan Levi as the number 1 pick, who is now inactive and playing for the national Rugby 7s team.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the two teams which have struggled the most since entering the AFLW are Gold Coast and West Coast, which happen to be the only two non-Victorian expansion teams so far. How is an upcoming expansion team like the Sydney Swans expected to put together a competitive AFLW team when they will be almost entirely restricted to recruiting NSW players and most of the best players from NSW already play for the Giants?

I really think the AFL needs to seriously look into ways to ensure the best junior talent in the country is going to the worst performed teams that year, regardless of which state they are based in. It's the best way to ensure a competitive league. The Suns are a perfect example of this - last year they were pretty awful but already look far more competitive this season and you'd have to say Charlie Rowbottom is a big part of that improvement.

No doubt about most of that. A few key points are missing though:

1. Charlie Rowbottom is averaging 14 disposals and sits among the top 5 or so in the league for tackles--in other words, she's duplicating Jacqui Yorston's stats from 2020. If it was Yorston out there on the weekend instead of Rowbottom, the Suns would still have beaten the Eagles (like they did two years ago). Yes, GC were awful last year, and you'd have to say the injuries to some of their born-and-bred Queenslanders is a big part of that.

2. Who's to say those ways of luring the best talent to where it's needed most aren't already being implemented. Do you really believe Rowbottom decided, unprompted by the AFL, that she wanted to live on the Gold Coast (it's not the only place that has beaches, after all). Likewise Alicia Eva asking for a trade to GWS, and so on.

3. WA: Chelsea Randall, Emma King, Ruby Schleicher, Courtney Hodder, Sabrina Frederick, Caitlyn Edwards, etc. QLD: Katie Brennan, Tayla Harris, Tahlia Randall, Kate McCarthy, Tarni White, Teagan Levi, etc. The Suns and Eagles would hardly need to bring in talent from elsewhere if they were just able to hold on to what's produced in their own backyard. That's surely got to be the priority.

4. Regarding the Swans, true it's a bit of a different story because NSW isn't at that WA/QLD level of talent production yet. However, they are an extremely well resourced and connected club in the nation's biggest city. I don't think they'll struggle to present a lot of quality players from interstate with hard-to-refuse career opportunities.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

I tuned in for the last quarter of the Suns-Eagles match. Guessing it wasn't much chop up to that point but the last quarter was an absolute cracker. That's the standard the competition should be aiming for. It shows the players are capable of producing quality football. So hopefully more games follow that one.

My main gripe is I still reckon the converts (players from other sports) aren't up to scratch. They're getting games simply because they're tall or athletic. It's still clear that the players who grew up playing the sport have better skills and awareness - it illustrates why pathways are important in order for the comp to grow. The more females who grow up playing the game, the better the quality of the games will be.

I reckon it's on the right track.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Liked - The AFL's decision to 'give the week off' to the Bulldogs and Lions, and change matches for the Cats and Blues. Both Geelong and Carlton got a good hit out (and we got the Prespakis Cup), plus avoided having 'hollow wins' over a covid-depleted Bulldogs and Lions.

Learnt - Up to 6 current teams won't be in the Premiership conversation for the next five years. St Kilda (no A-Graders with Patrikios not playing), GWS (about to have some retirements and be gutted by the Swans) and West Coast (waiting to draft and develop next gen of A-Graders). While the Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne Tasmania and Carlton are in a vulnerable position, with anticipation they'll be raided by the Bombers and Hawks for their expansion signings.

Loved - Gold Coast's final quarter. Had that feeling that the Suns were going to fade away again, but a rally like that over the Eagles is very important for a team's development and belief in themselves.

 

[lordbeecee]

I'm new to AFLW this year. Had always appreciated from afar, but thought it was time for me to really get serous with supporting the Women's game this season. (live in rural NSW so not much afl stuff comes through here) What I've seen so far has been fantastic. I'm a Swans supporter, but have had a liking for Bulldogs and Freo in the past so I've picked them up as my defacto teams. Have not been disappointed. Level of skill is up there, highly energetic play, and really exciting stuff. Safe to say I'm hooked. Now just need to know how I can support the Women's teams - id love a freo or bulldogs guernsey but do they only make them in women's cut?

As said has been said above, appreciating the use of the suburban grounds too.

Yeah the girls.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jatz14]

I don't know how anybody could claim that without considering the service and attention the player is getting from year to year.

That's why your Atkins example is absurd. Far as I recall she didn't get beaten in the air once on Sunday, despite being regularly outnumbered by Heslop and Ahrens (1 mark each), and most kicks "to" her were blind disadvantageous hacks.

There was no sign that "opposition footballers have passed her by in marking" (note the moment she found herself in a 1-on-3 marking contest, used speed and body positioning to earn a free and kick a goal). The reason she's unlikely to take many marks this year is because, more than anything, stats are a reflection of tactics.

Thats my point. She didn't get beaten, but she didn't win either. But I think if you matched 2022 Atkins up against a 2020 Atkins in a marking contest, 2022 version wins most times, but she takes less marks per game now. And her service sucks, but it has always sucked. Getting better isnt enough, you can get better but look worse, because sport is comparative, your good or not, relative to your opposition, unless your playing golf or something. And one of our key forwards was regularly being outnumbered at the contest, by Gold Coast. But thats less us being worse, and more Gold Coast being better, and Gold Coast in most games, aren't going to look better.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Thats my point. She didn't get beaten, but she didn't win either. But I think if you matched 2022 Atkins up against a 2020 Atkins in a marking contest, 2022 version wins most times, but she takes less marks per game now.

Atkins took one grab in total across the first 3 rounds of 2020. I don't know why you're acting like she used to rack up marks. Half the time she takes 0 or 1, the other half it's 2 or 3.

And one of our key forwards was regularly being outnumbered at the contest, by Gold Coast. But thats less us being worse, and more Gold Coast being better

That's got nothing to do with player development of either side. It's a result of the WC coach deliberately sacrificing forward-line numbers to carry out his crap game plan.

 

[GC2015]

No doubt about most of that. A few key points are missing though:

1. Charlie Rowbottom is averaging 14 disposals and sits among the top 5 or so in the league for tackles--in other words, she's duplicating Jacqui Yorston's stats from 2020. If it was Yorston out there on the weekend instead of Rowbottom, the Suns would still have beaten the Eagles (like they did two years ago). Yes, GC were awful last year, and you'd have to say the injuries to some of their born-and-bred Queenslanders is a big part of that.

2. Who's to say those ways of luring the best talent to where it's needed most aren't already being implemented. Do you really believe Rowbottom decided, unprompted by the AFL, that she wanted to live on the Gold Coast (it's not the only place that has beaches, after all). Likewise Alicia Eva asking for a trade to GWS, and so on.

3. WA: Chelsea Randall, Emma King, Ruby Schleicher, Courtney Hodder, Sabrina Frederick, Caitlyn Edwards, etc. QLD: Katie Brennan, Tayla Harris, Tahlia Randall, Kate McCarthy, Tarni White, Teagan Levi, etc. The Suns and Eagles would hardly need to bring in talent from elsewhere if they were just able to hold on to what's produced in their own backyard. That's surely got to be the priority.

4. Regarding the Swans, true it's a bit of a different story because NSW isn't at that WA/QLD level of talent production yet. However, they are an extremely well resourced and connected club in the nation's biggest city. I don't think they'll struggle to present a lot of quality players from interstate with hard-to-refuse career opportunities.

I'd like to think the AFL already is working on implementing a more equitable draft situation. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that the AFL had a hand in Rowbottom heading to the Suns. In fact, we tried to do the same thing with Nick Daicos last year but unfortunately he stayed true to the Pies. It would have been the kind of double swoop that would send shockwaves throughout footy circles and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the AFL was involved with attempting to lure both Daicos and Rowbottom north in the same year.

Our AFLW team is fortunate to be based in a part of Australia that appears to produce high quality female talent on a fairly regular basis and I think that's only going to increase now that the Southport Sharks have entered a team in the top level QAFLW competition. Like you pointed out, our biggest challenge will likely be holding onto all the local talent but then again it's also good for the league to share it around. As much as I'd like to see a player like Katie Brennan or Tayla Harris in the red and gold, I can accept that we can't keep every player in Queensland. I fear for new expansion teams like the Swans though and they could have a few lean years just trying to build a list that can compete in the AFLW. I'm not sure there is enough talent in Australia to maintain a competitive league with 14 teams, let alone 18 next year.

 

[briztoon]

I'd like to think the AFL already is working on implementing a more equitable draft situation. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that the AFL had a hand in Rowbottom heading to the Suns. In fact, we tried to do the same thing with Nick Daicos last year but unfortunately he stayed true to the Pies. It would have been the kind of double swoop that would send shockwaves throughout footy circles and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the AFL was involved with attempting to lure both Daicos and Rowbottom north in the same year.

Our AFLW team is fortunate to be based in a part of Australia that appears to produce high quality female talent on a fairly regular basis and I think that's only going to increase now that the Southport Sharks have entered a team in the top level QAFLW competition. Like you pointed out, our biggest challenge will likely be holding onto all the local talent but then again it's also good for the league to share it around. As much as I'd like to see a player like Katie Brennan or Tayla Harris in the red and gold, I can accept that we can't keep every player in Queensland. I fear for new expansion teams like the Swans though and they could have a few lean years just trying to build a list that can compete in the AFLW. I'm not sure there is enough talent in Australia to maintain a competitive league with 14 teams, let alone 18 next year.

Until it’s a full time League with decent pay for the bottom of the list players, I believe the draft will stay a state based draft, with the occasional player nominating to move interstate.

 

[TheTassieHawk]

Until it’s a full time League with decent pay for the bottom of the list players, I believe the draft will stay a state based draft, with the occasional player nominating to move interstate.

I agree, however there is plenty of scope to throw dollars at the top end 19-21yo to voluntarily move states and also to pay marquee wages to the top 3-5 on each list to encourage elite developed talent to be spread more evenly across the league during and post expansion.