Two Rucks

[Old Spice]

This is one of the most important questions that will impact our team structure.

Whether we opt to play two rucks in the finals is an enormously important question with knock-on effects for the composition of the side. A Wood / Fraser combo I believe might push Leigh Brown out of the side as a quasi-ruck - meaning he has to occupy in his own right a key position, which I don't think he can (or should) when Rambo and Goldsack are options down back and Rocca and Dawes up forward.

With Wood / Fraser, you obviously have some ruck insurance and the ability to throw Josh up forward or Wood forward or back filling the Leigh Brown role. Wood down back can free Rambo to move forward if required as a third tall option. Alternately if Fraser goes forward, we can go in without say Dawes and keep the number of mids. Problem might be sufficient rest time for Wood and Fraser and a slight drop off in defensive pressure.

Do people think a 2 ruck combo is the way to go? The opposition will go a long way to determining what mix we go with, but what are people's views.

 

[mdc]

Keeping the Anchor in the team as a pseudoruck over Wood given Wood's current form would be mental.

I get the feeling Nathan Brown might be the one to miss out on the finals.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Three months ago the answer was clear.

"Malthouse is an idiot, Leigh Brown is a dud, we're running Josh into the ground, sack Malthouse, how are we going to cope against real teams with proper ruckmen, sack Eddie, this will cost us another premiership, Bucks would never be this stupid, why did we waste pick 14 of Wood if we wont give him a game, Leigh Brown is a dud, sack Malthouse"

Now I'm not so sure. Clearly MM is no idiot. The around the ground benefits of having a fill-in second ruck have put us in third spot on the ladder.

Its a VERY good question. And maybe the answer is, you probably play two rucks but one of them is going to have to play a Dawes/L Brown role where he spends a lot of time up forward and does very little ruckwork.

So I'd play Wood in the ruuck with Josh as the back-up. Which of course begs the question if you're bringing Fraser in to play as a forward which he's never really done, do you overlook him and select Rocca instead?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I get the feeling Nathan Brown might be the one to miss out on the finals.

I'd be sure of that but L Brown will play as a specialist CHB. He wont do much ruckwork if he's pencilled in to play on Mooney and Kozi.

 

[DoubleO7]

Don't know why we can't play Fraser as a forward and pinch hit in the ruck, rather than the other way around.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

There IS no issue here.

While Wood is playing well, we play two ruckmen who rotate through the forward line. That way we have an extra rotation on the bench for the mids. Fraser comes in for Dawes.

Leigh Brown goes out. Nathan Brown comes in.

The ONLY question is Rocca. IF he's fit and comes in, who goes out for him?

 

[Trojan82]

So I'd play Wood in the ruuck with Josh as the back-up. Which of course begs the question if you're bringing Fraser in to play as a forward which he's never really done, do you overlook him and select Rocca instead?

I see what you did there. It is assumed Rocca and Dawes wont play in the same side and they are interchangeable. Fraser and Wood are also interchangeable however it seems lately Cam Wood is a much better tap ruckman than Josh. So therefore for Josh to get a game he must displace someone else. He is known to be a dangerous forward player so would he take the Dawes/Rocca position.... The problem being that he has never really been just a forward. Does he swap with L. Brown? But who takes L. Brown's defensive role?

Do we swap him for a small or a mid sized player and just play taller? Who? Medhurst? Dick? Wellingham? Sounds silly. I just don't know what should be done here..... probably depends on the opposition.

This week will be very interesting.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The ONLY question is Rocca. IF he's fit and comes in, who goes out for him?

See my post above. The only way Rocca can get in is if we have a one-ruck policy and he does his share in assisting in the ruck. I cant see Wood Fraser and Rocca all in the one team. You'd have to drop one of Medhurst Cloke or Anthony for that to happen, or drop L Brown and move Anthony into defence.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Don't know why we can't play Fraser as a forward and pinch hit in the ruck, rather than the other way around.

I think we will. But why put Fraser in that role when Rocca can do it and he's a 300% better forward than Fraser??

 

[Old Spice]

Keeping the Anchor in the team as a pseudoruck over Wood given Wood's current form would be mental.

I get the feeling Nathan Brown might be the one to miss out on the finals.

But why, WHY?

If we have two genuine rucks, how could Leigh Brown eclipse Rambo (or Goldsack) as a genuine defender?

 

[Dawson]

As Josh said in an interview with MMM on Saturday.

You can get away with one Ruck during the year, but there is no way you can get away with it in the finals

 

[iGNITER]

Fraser has to come back in he is our #1 Ruckman.

Wood deserves to stay in given his form over the time Fraser has been out.

Malthouse loves the way Leroy Brown goes about it and has been talking him up most of the season - doubt he will get dropped.

The main thing I can see happening is:

Fraser IN
Dawes OUT

Effectively we get 2 genuine ruckman in the side.

Then Leroy plays as a Backman.

I just cant see Nathan Brown coming back in.

If Rocca is to come in maybe Malthouse is thinking of dropping a small such as Dick

 

[mattys123]

As Josh said in an interview with MMM on Saturday.

You can get away with one Ruck during the year, but there is no way you can get away with it in the finals

The number of teams that have lose finals or GF's because of only having 1 ruck is amazing when you consider it.

This is why Stkilda are our biggest challenge.

Even if Ottens gets fit, Geelong still only have 1 class ruck (at the moment they have none) as Stkilda have King and Gardiner.

If we are playing Geelong or Adelaide, we may play only the one ruck, but if we are playing Stkilda or the Bulldogs, we would need both Wood and Fraser.

This week, against Jolly, I'm praying they play Fraser, but leave Wood as the No.1. ruck and let Josh go forward a bit.

Josh Fraser is right, 1 ruckman might work in the H & A rounds, but in the finals, unless the other side has the same setup (which is rare), you need 2 rucks in the finals.

 

[didaka]

This could be the beginning of seeing Josh Fraser play the role that he may be suited to.

30% of game time in the ruck, 70% floating the ground, becoming part of midfield rotation and spending a little bit of time in the forward line.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

As Josh said in an interview with MMM on Saturday.

You can get away with one Ruck during the year, but there is no way you can get away with it in the finals

Maybe Josh is talking his own book

 

[mattys123]

I was thinking about the upcoming Wood and Fraser ruck combo the other day, and thought it might go something like this.

Wood; No.1 ruck, plays 60% of game in ruck, drops back into defense to block hole when required, else on the bench.

Fraser; 40% of the game in the ruck, plays forward and rotates of bench with other forwards as required.

 

[smiddaz123]

Wood should be taking the centre bounces about 70% of the time imo. Fraser can do some rucking in the forward line and around the ground to give Wood a break, and take the centre bounces at times.

Wood is twice the tap ruckman that Fraser is, so we should be looking for Wood to take as many ruck contests as possible.

 

[JA27]

i think fraser and wood will both play during the finals along with leigh brown, fraser will spend more time forward with wood doing most of the rucking and leigh brown playing mostly down back and through the middle. cant see a place for rocca or dawes but nathan brown has a place if the match up is there. the talk of rocca coming back from injuries for the finals reminds me a lot of scott cummings in 2002.

 

[mdc]

But why, WHY?

If we have two genuine rucks, how could Leigh Brown eclipse Rambo (or Goldsack) as a genuine defender?

I'm no Leigh Brown apologist, but Nathan Brown's form this year has been patchy at best as well. Personally, I'd prefer to see Nathan on Kosi or whoever rather than Leigh, but I can understand the counter-argument.

Goldsack/Cox/Clarke etc are fighting for flank spots, and have little to do with the Browns I'd have thought.

 

[Old Spice]

If we are playing Wood / Fraser and resting them in the backline or forward, then Nathan Brown should come in for Leroy as a better swingman. If Fraser rucks and Wood pushes back then we could push Rambo forward. When Wood rucks, Fraser pushes forward and Rambo to backline.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Goldsack/Cox/Clarke etc are fighting for flank spots, and have little to do with the Browns I'd have thought.

Correct. And on that note Wellingham may have passed them all. It will be him or Goldy depending upon matchups

 

[smiddaz123]

Wellingham has little to do with the back flank sports I would've though...

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Wellingham has little to do with the back flank sports I would've though...

My bad if wrong. Thought I have seen him in recent weeks spending a lot of time in the back half. Certainly his combination of toughness and offensive ability suits a role back there.

 

[Histrionics]

Fraser straight swap for Dawes. Play Wood as our number one ruck with Fraser as number 2. Fraser playing as a third tall in the forward line.

L.Brown could go out for N.Brown but I can't see that happening.

With those changes I can't see a spot for Rocca. I think he will be brought in this week for a smaller type e.g Dick or Wellingham but come finals time I don't think there is a spot for him.

 

[The Don]

There was an article in the sun after the adelaide game refering to this and Malthouse basically said he would play Wood as the ruckman and josh as second ruckman/ forward. I believe this is the best option so in fraser and out dawes. Unfortunately there is no place for Rocca.
In regard to the backline I would have little confidence in L Brown taking Kosi in a final assuming Presti takes Riewoldt. So I would be bringing Nathan Brown back in as he is a better defender and still has the ability to go forward.

The other player under pressure would have to be Toovey. Would be looking at Marty or Goldsack to replace him