Roast Tyson Stengle fu**s up again, stood down

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Mr_Moogle

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There is a possibility that Campo got it ass backwards and Stengle will actually prefer being in the SANFL environment where there is way less scrutiny. My Eagles buddy told me it was Stengle who approached the club.
 

hey shorty

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There is a possibility that Campo got it ass backwards and Stengle will actually prefer being in the SANFL environment where there is way less scrutiny. My Eagles buddy told me it was Stengle who approached the club.
Quite possibly, however he's not going to escape it entirely. You can hear individual comments far more at an SANFL game than an AFL game.

I'm also not sure he'll escape much scrutiny, people will be watching his every move.
 

feenix67

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I'll use Dennis Rodman to illustrate my thoughts on the matter.

1. You can live hard off the field and still be a valuable professional sportsperson and teammate where it counts - GameDay.

2. If you're a professional sportsperson who wants to party, you'd better make bloody sure you're a valuable player to the team. This relies on talent and work rate.

Rodman was elite in his role as a defensive vice in his prime. Stengel is not elite at anything, he's average with signs of potential. So from Tyson's perspective, he either steps up on the field, or he removes off field issues that make it easy for the club to pick someone else who is less trouble.

As an aside, I don't think it's the club's responsibility to tend to his ongoing wellbeing. It's the AFL, as his actual employer, that needs to provide the support. The club has to administer a lean list, there's no room for charity, especially with recent changes. It's the AFLs system, they are the employer, they need to provide and fund the support.
 

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bootrossbootross

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But can he play football?

Surely culture is not about creating 36 robots running around - surely the last 20 years of crows ineptitude has more than shown that. I desperately want some authentic personality in the club, not the manufactured and curated rubbish we have had to stomach for ever.

A good culture involves backing and supporting players - this means explicitly when they mess up, even if they are a recidivist. It is not hard to demonstrate culture when all is going well, the true test is when its not.

Sure, there are core values that cant be compromised but in my view drug strikes are not in this category. The call for heads on this kind of "controversy" seems to come from people either assuming the moral high ground surrounding drug issues (history will judge you very poorly for this relic of a stance) or parroting the garbage that passes for football outrage journalism these days.

Now, I am not condoning the breaking of rules - but this young fella clearly needs time and support to work out whether he can fit into the robotic AFL system. I would be proud of my club if they provide it for him, whilst pushing back hard at anyone who makes an issue of it. If it doesnt work out, so be it, but in my view supporting him is the only action that builds the culture we want.

The Corporation once know as Aussie rules football makes a massive public show of surfing the front lines of social issues, and the clubs clamber over each other do the same. Now here is a chance to show we actually understand (or even just acknowledge) the massive challenges indigenous people face in any vocation.

Anyway, can he play football? For me he has no runs on the board other than occasional glimpses, but I say let his football talent (ie games played) determine whether he remains with the club.

Imagine letting Carey, Ablett, Williams or any of the many, many other great football talents go from your football club because they had different personal values. Obviosuly Stengle is not in this class, the point I am trying to make here is if your "culture" cannot acommodate peiople with different values then you wont go far. Each of these players, and Im sure you will know of many more, had issues that today would probably see them sacked and publicly pillaried in the "best interests" of the club - and our game is much poorer for it today.

I would rather be drunkenly running nude in a crows sombrero down the middle of Cross Road celebrating a Stengle led b2b premiership than assuming some self masturbatory position that "my club does not compromise on standards" in an attempt to manufacture culture, and because it is the expected action to appease the brigades of outrage junkies.

I have Spoken.
 

Golumless

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Even if he sucks it's two years of salary paid out plus list spot taken up

So we may as well use him
We're in a position we can payout that salary though if we want to opt for that direction. Stengle would not be on a lot and it's not like we should be anywhere else than the floor of the cap.

For me, this depends on Rowe. If Rowe comes in and offers similar if not better output then Stengle on both sides of the ball, I'd delist Stengle unless he came back to us in superb nick (and if he does that, I'd reward Stengle with a lifeline, he's earned his shot at redemption). If Rowe doesn't take his chance with both hands, I'd be much more lenient with Stengle providing he doesn't get into trouble (you can only tolerate someone being continuously stupid for so long) or go backwards with fitness. After all, in that scenario, Rowe is probably not the answer to our small forward problems.
 

Mutineer

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We're in a position we can payout that salary though if we want to opt for that direction. Stengle would not be on a lot and it's not like we should be anywhere else than the floor of the cap.

For me, this depends on Rowe. If Rowe comes in and offers similar if not better output then Stengle on both sides of the ball, I'd delist Stengle unless he came back to us in superb nick (and if he does that, I'd reward Stengle with a lifeline, he's earned his shot at redemption). If Rowe doesn't take his chance with both hands, I'd be much more lenient with Stengle providing he doesn't get into trouble (you can only tolerate someone being continuously stupid for so long) or go backwards with fitness. After all, in that scenario, Rowe is probably not the answer to our small forward problems.
Not too many drafts where a pretty decent small forward prospect can't be picked up 2nd round onwards and quite often they're capable of input in their 1st season even. The one attribute that I like to see in a small forward both Stengle and Rowe seem to lack....raw speed which allows high end defensive pressure and run down tackling in the scoring zone. I think at least Rowe will have the commitment and hunger to succeed that Stengle appears to lack.
 

Golumless

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Not too many drafts where a pretty decent small forward prospect can't be picked up 2nd round onwards and quite often they're capable of input in their 1st season even. The one attribute that I like to see in a small forward both Stengle and Rowe seem to lack....raw speed which allows high end defensive pressure and run down tackling in the scoring zone. I think at least Rowe will have the commitment and hunger to succeed that Stengle appears to lack.
Yup, adding one or two more small forward prospects from the back end of the draft would not be something I'd shy away from in the near future either. We have some potentially good pieces, but when your best player is a 26-year-old going into his second year as a best 22 option, it's certainly not in that healthy of a state for a rebuilding side, as much as McAdam could genuinely be a cult hero by the end of his time in Adelaide (and useful when we're kicking out of the rebuild).

Speed is certainly the breakpoint of both of their profiles. It does make it easier to impact defensively and both players do inevitably live and die on their defensive impact. Still, if Betts can find a way to become an above-average defensive player, then at least it's possible Stengle and Rowe could end up doing something similar, as Eddie wasn't blessed with blistering pace. It would mean though that both couldn't co-exist in a lineup, and inevitably we'd be faced in finding a Cameron like player to compliment if either of them makes it. Life would become very easy if Newchurch could become that player (with his own spin on it of course), though its certainly an "I'll believe it when I see it" kind of deal.

I do expect that Rowe will bury Stengles career pretty quickly though.
 

Golumless

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I'll be stunned if Rowe doesn't play rd.1.

Even more stunned if Stengle is ever the reason he is dropped
You can all but lock in Rowe round 1. We don't have many specialist small forwards, and as much as I like Newchurch, I doubt he's in contention, yet.

That said, the bottom line is certainly possible. Both are very similar players with similar resumes, outside of draft time. If Rowe leaves that door open, all it'll take is a good turn of form from Stengle, or a dip of form from Rowe and he could quickly find himself on the outside looking in. He has a free run at putting the final nail in Stengles career at Adelaide though, with the only pitfall being we do have a difficult draw in the first half the year for our very lowly position, and a small forward could get suffocated out by said draw.
 

Sanders

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I'll use Dennis Rodman to illustrate my thoughts on the matter.

1. You can live hard off the field and still be a valuable professional sportsperson and teammate where it counts - GameDay.

2. If you're a professional sportsperson who wants to party, you'd better make bloody sure you're a valuable player to the team. This relies on talent and work rate.

Rodman was elite in his role as a defensive vice in his prime. Stengel is not elite at anything, he's average with signs of potential. So from Tyson's perspective, he either steps up on the field, or he removes off field issues that make it easy for the club to pick someone else who is less trouble.

As an aside, I don't think it's the club's responsibility to tend to his ongoing wellbeing. It's the AFL, as his actual employer, that needs to provide the support. The club has to administer a lean list, there's no room for charity, especially with recent changes. It's the AFLs system, they are the employer, they need to provide and fund the support.
agreed.

In a similar vein, Neymar has responded to people who suggest he clean up his off field act


All Stengle should focus on is making sure he is good at his job. It wasn’t morality than caused people to forget about Dustin Martin’s chopsticks incident or the company he keeps

 

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Murray2503

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Yup, adding one or two more small forward prospects from the back end of the draft would not be something I'd shy away from in the near future either. We have some potentially good pieces, but when your best player is a 26-year-old going into his second year as a best 22 option, it's certainly not in that healthy of a state for a rebuilding side, as much as McAdam could genuinely be a cult hero by the end of his time in Adelaide (and useful when we're kicking out of the rebuild).

Speed is certainly the breakpoint of both of their profiles. It does make it easier to impact defensively and both players do inevitably live and die on their defensive impact. Still, if Betts can find a way to become an above-average defensive player, then at least it's possible Stengle and Rowe could end up doing something similar, as Eddie wasn't blessed with blistering pace. It would mean though that both couldn't co-exist in a lineup, and inevitably we'd be faced in finding a Cameron like player to compliment if either of them makes it. Life would become very easy if Newchurch could become that player (with his own spin on it of course), though its certainly an "I'll believe it when I see it" kind of deal.

I do expect that Rowe will bury Stengles career pretty quickly though.
It's amazing when losses start piling up how quickly indescretions get forgotten. It's all well and good for the hierarchy at the club to be having a pious high horse attitude in the "off-season" but let's see if they have the same attitude"in-season" and especially if we are sitting at 1 and 10.

Many seem to think that Rowe is the third coming of Betts and Rioli merged into one without the "rookie" even playing 1 game. Good luck meeting those expectations. I think that line of thinking is pure "hope" so that it backs up their opinion to get rid of Stengle for something half our playing group does in the off season. If Rowe is picked which is debatable I believe it will only take a number of weeks to ascertain that Stengle is our best option as a goal kicking small forward.
 

Golumless

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It's amazing when losses start piling up how quickly indescretions get forgotten. It's all well and good for the hierarchy at the club to be having a pious high horse attitude in the "off-season" but let's see if they have the same attitude"in-season" and especially if we are sitting at 1 and 10.

Many seem to think that Rowe is the third coming of Betts and Rioli merged into one without the "rookie" even playing 1 game. Good luck meeting those expectations. I think that line of thinking is pure "hope" so that it backs up their opinion to get rid of Stengle for something half our playing group does in the off season. If Rowe is picked which is debatable I believe it will only take a number of weeks to ascertain that Stengle is our best option as a goal kicking small forward.
I don't think it's debatable that Rowe will get picked at all. He comes in as a ready to go small forward into a list that needs small forward depth, and his main roadblock has been abandoned in the football equivalent of Siberia. Who overtakes him? Newchurch is raw, McHenry and Jones aren't small forwards and if they're replacing anyone, it's Murphy as that defensive small, Cook and Davis are likely fighting McAdam (though Davis is admittedly a smokey for this spot).

Really, Rowe and Stengle have a very similar record in the 2nds, with Rowes 2020 being the best of the lot (though, I would expect Stengle to peel off 45-50 goals if he played in the reserves). I would go so far as to say if Rowe doesn't have that spot in round 1 and isn't injured, then we can go ahead and delist him. After all, he needs to impact quickly because he doesn't have the safety blanket of being a developing kid and he's never getting a better opportunity to get a debut.
 

Murray2503

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I don't think it's debatable that Rowe will get picked at all. He comes in as a ready to go small forward into a list that needs small forward depth, and his main roadblock has been abandoned in the football equivalent of Siberia. Who overtakes him? Newchurch is raw, McHenry and Jones aren't small forwards and if they're replacing anyone, it's Murphy as that defensive small, Cook and Davis are likely fighting McAdam (though Davis is admittedly a smokey for this spot).

Really, Rowe and Stengle have a very similar record in the 2nds, with Rowes 2020 being the best of the lot (though, I would expect Stengle to peel off 45-50 goals if he played in the reserves). I would go so far as to say if Rowe doesn't have that spot in round 1 and isn't injured, then we can go ahead and delist him. After all, he needs to impact quickly because he doesn't have the safety blanket of being a developing kid and he's never getting a better opportunity to get a debut.
I think they will play McAdam, Jones, Murphy up forward and pinch hit Jones in the middle and rest Schoenberg up forward when he does.
 

hey shorty

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It's amazing when losses start piling up how quickly indescretions get forgotten. It's all well and good for the hierarchy at the club to be having a pious high horse attitude in the "off-season" but let's see if they have the same attitude"in-season" and especially if we are sitting at 1 and 10.

Many seem to think that Rowe is the third coming of Betts and Rioli merged into one without the "rookie" even playing 1 game. Good luck meeting those expectations. I think that line of thinking is pure "hope" so that it backs up their opinion to get rid of Stengle for something half our playing group does in the off season. If Rowe is picked which is debatable I believe it will only take a number of weeks to ascertain that Stengle is our best option as a goal kicking small forward.
It's not debatable at all, Rowe will be picked in R1. And NO ONE is comparing him to Betts or Rioli that's just some rubbish you made up

Stengle had a season comparable to Lachlan Murphy, I'm not sure it's clear he's our best small forward option..... That's before we include McAdam
 

Kane McGoodwin

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It's amazing when losses start piling up how quickly indescretions get forgotten. It's all well and good for the hierarchy at the club to be having a pious high horse attitude in the "off-season" but let's see if they have the same attitude"in-season" and especially if we are sitting at 1 and 10.

Many seem to think that Rowe is the third coming of Betts and Rioli merged into one without the "rookie" even playing 1 game. Good luck meeting those expectations. I think that line of thinking is pure "hope" so that it backs up their opinion to get rid of Stengle for something half our playing group does in the off season. If Rowe is picked which is debatable I believe it will only take a number of weeks to ascertain that Stengle is our best option as a goal kicking small forward.
Who is making claims Rowe will be as good as Betts & Rioli?

I have seen nothing of the sort.

Stengle won't be back at AFC regardless.
 

skam85

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It's amazing when losses start piling up how quickly indescretions get forgotten. It's all well and good for the hierarchy at the club to be having a pious high horse attitude in the "off-season" but let's see if they have the same attitude"in-season" and especially if we are sitting at 1 and 10.

Many seem to think that Rowe is the third coming of Betts and Rioli merged into one without the "rookie" even playing 1 game. Good luck meeting those expectations. I think that line of thinking is pure "hope" so that it backs up their opinion to get rid of Stengle for something half our playing group does in the off season. If Rowe is picked which is debatable I believe it will only take a number of weeks to ascertain that Stengle is our best option as a goal kicking small forward.
I want what you're smoking
 

DroppingTheBall

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All I have said is I want quality committed players at our club who act professionally.
Me too.

Someone who fu**-ups 3 times in a year is not professional
Agree.
& never will be.
Oh well, you got 2 out of 3. Not bad.

I’m not saying he will be. But I’m definitely saying it’s completely wrong to say, as a generality, that someone who stumbles 3 times in a year will never be a professional. It would only take one exception to prove that statement wrong, yet we have thousands.... millions more likely, threaded into almost every day of the fabric of all of human history.
 

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