U18s now VAFA colts

[AM]

From memory it was a knee-jerk reaction to the SFLs move to start-up an u18 comp. Pursued for fear of them stealing a march on us.

Always thought the VAFA either needed to take the SFL head-on with an u18 comp in lieu of the u19s. Or beef-up the u 19s. Loosening-up the age restriction in the u19s is counterproductive in my book.

 

[Rissoles]

From memory it was a knee-jerk reaction to the SFLs move to start-up an u18 comp. Pursued for fear of them stealing a march on us.

Always thought the VAFA either needed to take the SFL head-on with an u18 comp in lieu of the u19s. Or beef-up the u 19s. Loosening-up the age restriction in the u19s is counterproductive in my book.

I'd be grateful, AM, if you could explain for my inadequate comprehension what yo mean by 'loosening-up the age restriction in the u19s' as being counterproductive.

 

[perspective]

Agree with AM it was a knee jerk reaction to the SFL years ago when the SFL started up their under 18 comp at a time when the VAFA were losing control of the THEN MSJFL - back then but having said that the under 18 concept did not work for the SFL and they have gone to under 19's so good on the VAFA for having a crack at it but in the end did not work.

 

[2s Hack]

Agree with AM it was a knee jerk reaction to the SFL years ago when the SFL started up their under 18 comp at a time when the VAFA were losing control of the THEN MSJFL - back then but having said that the under 18 concept did not work for the SFL and they have gone to under 19's so good on the VAFA for having a crack at it but in the end did not work.

SFL is U19.5s allowing 6 x 20 yr olds for the sake of keeping "the colts" comp going.
So effectively it's u/20s and has been dominated by teams the last couple of years with the maximum number of this age group .
In my opinion, if your 20 yrs old you should be stepping into open age footy

 

[perspective]

If it keeps young blokes playing footy it doesn't matter, whether it is with the Ammos or Southern or anywhere the key is to keep blokes playing and if having an under 19.5 plus then who cares? It is a bit the same as this under 21 or 23 concept you could say that if you are any good at that age you should be in the real rep team but it gives these younger blokes a good chance to taste what it is like at rep footy level without being smashed at senior level. Inclusion is the key Hack because if we don't open all of our comps up to all comers and grades then we will continue to lose them,after all this is community football.... is that soccer I can hear knocking on the door???

 

[trucka]

U18s comp gone. A shame but it has been in decline for a few years now. Became untenable last year when it had to be propped up by a number of U19 teams with fixture changes occurring weekly.

Has been a hobby horse of mine for a while but I wish they would make it a ‘pure’ U19s comp which would help to mitigate the issue of boys coming into the VAFA from junior leagues that end at U16s. At the moment you can play unlimited 19.5s and 4 x U20s in all grades except 19 Premier.

I copped a pasting for my views on this last year and don’t want to go down that path again but as the SFL and EFL also scrapped U18s in recent years I guess it is no great surprise.

http://www.vafa.com.au/index.php?id=219&tx_ttnews[year]=2015&tx_ttnews[month]=03&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=1628&cHash=e0c29ac74a6e6f58e3c40d246a4453d8

Totally agree, make the colts a pure U19's and in need make the other grade a pure U20's. None of this half age groups and having 4 play over's

 

[Mounzer11]

If it keeps young blokes playing footy it doesn't matter, whether it is with the Ammos or Southern or anywhere the key is to keep blokes playing and if having an under 19.5 plus then who cares? It is a bit the same as this under 21 or 23 concept you could say that if you are any good at that age you should be in the real rep team but it gives these younger blokes a good chance to taste what it is like at rep footy level without being smashed at senior level. Inclusion is the key Hack because if we don't open all of our comps up to all comers and grades then we will continue to lose them,after all this is community football.... is that soccer I can hear knocking on the door???

I agree mate, who gives two shits if its an U19.5 comp and not a pure U19 comp. Does the name of the comp or when the cut-off is really matter?
I totally understand why they allow a couple of overage players. Not all friendship groups fall in the same age demographic and instead of losing some to other activities, why not let them play with their mates?
There are 5 divisions in the U19s, so they must be doing something right.
The U18s was a bad idea from the start in my humble opinion.

 

[Rooster 24]

I agree mate, who gives two shits if its an U19.5 comp and not a pure U19 comp. Does the name of the comp or when the cut-off is really matter?
I totally understand why they allow a couple of overage players. Not all friendship groups fall in the same age demographic and instead of losing some to other activities, why not let them play with their mates?
There are 5 divisions in the U19s, so they must be doing something right.
The U18s was a bad idea from the start in my humble opinion.

The physically immature kids coming out of leagues that finish at U16s who are playing against 20 years old probably give a shit and as this is about kids playing footy that should be of some importance. However I do take your point.

I agree that the U18s were a bad idea but much of that was due to the structures put in place when it was introduced. Without going through it all again it had too many variables, which could be exploited by some unscrupulous clubs. It is little wonder that most clubs, even if capable of fielding U18s, preferred the established u19s comp with its graded system. This is a huge advantage over the SFL U19s, which was stagnated due to a lack of participant clubs and disparate shorelines due to having just one division.

 

[Mounzer11]

The physically immature kids coming out of leagues that finish at U16s who are playing against 20 years old probably give a shit and as this is about kids playing footy that should be of some importance. However I do take your point.

I agree that the U18s were a bad idea but much of that was due to the structures put in place when it was introduced. Without going through it all again it had too many variables, which could be exploited by some unscrupulous clubs. It is little wonder that most clubs, even if capable of fielding U18s, preferred the established u19s comp with its graded system. This is a huge advantage over the SFL U19s, which was stagnated due to a lack of participant clubs and disparate shorelines due to having just one division.

Fair point Rooster re:20 yr olds, but my main point was whether you call it u19.5 or u19, it is what it is. The rules are the same for everyone so it shouldn't matter.
Five U19 Divisions shows how strong the concept is.
Are there any stats stating that we are losing kids to other activities because its an U19.5 rather than a true U19 comp? If there is then I'll be happy to change my mind on it.
To my mind re: U18s, you were never going to get a buy from the private school clubs because all their potential U18s would be playing school sport. St Bernards, Mazenod - ACC schools with no weekend sport.

 

[perspective]

Nice subtle "dig" rooster unlike your friend Bedford from Ormond I wont bite as you are in fact absolutely right but I reckon the Southern League has grown very nicely particularly with netball at 60 teams now...don't think stagnate is the right word for the SFL IMO. But it does take a strong league like the VAFA to admit they stuffed up and go back to what they do best which is senior footy..and they do that very well.

 

[bedford]

Weren't you from Ormond ! Why bring me in to it.

 

[Rooster 24]

Nice subtle "dig" rooster unlike your friend Bedford from Ormond I wont bite as you are in fact absolutely right but I reckon the Southern League has grown very nicely particularly with netball at 60 teams now...don't think stagnate is the right word for the SFL IMO. But it does take a strong league like the VAFA to admit they stuffed up and go back to what they do best which is senior footy..and they do that very well.

Certainly not meant as a dig mate. It was just to demonstrate the value of comps with multiple grades as a lack of opposition and willingness of clubs to get involved led to the demise if the VAFA U18s. I realise this is not an SFL forum but could I respectfully suggest that the SFL management need to take a large share of the blame for the state of the SFL U19s. They just allow clubs to drift in and out of the unders without showing any real commitment to the format. Make it compulsory that if you want to play in Div 1 you have to have U19s within 2 years otherwise you get relegated. Clayton demonstrated that it can be done, despite having a demographic that does not lend itself to a start up underage football team. Say what you like about Dingley but they generally develop from within and are strong supporters of the Colts/19s.

On the flip side I find it absurd that a club with a fair bit of recent success at senior level and with a junior alignment dumps its colts the season after they win a flag and have not been seen since. That same club can then find a way to recruit a mid 40s journeyman of questionable character. Just makes no sense to me.

i guess if the SFL's primary business and priority is netball then they are doing a bang up job and I dip my lid to them.

 

[AM]

Certainly not meant as a dig mate. It was just to demonstrate the value of comps with multiple grades as a lack of opposition and willingness of clubs to get involved led to the demise if the VAFA U18s. I realise this is not an SFL forum but could I respectfully suggest that the SFL management need to take a large share of the blame for the state of the SFL U19s. They just allow clubs to drift in and out of the unders without showing any real commitment to the format. Make it compulsory that if you want to play in Div 1 you have to have U19s within 2 years otherwise you get relegated. Clayton demonstrated that it can be done, despite having a demographic that does not led itself to a start up underage football team. Say what you like about Dingley but they generally develop from within and are strong supporters of the Colts/19s.

On the flip side I find it absurd that a club with a fair bit of recent success at senior level and with a junior alignment dumps its colts the season after they win a flag and have not been seen since. That same club can then find a way to recruit a mid 40s journeyman of questionable character. Just makes no sense to me.

i guess if the SFL's primary business and priority is netball then they are doing a bang up job and I dip my lid to them.

Some valid criticism there Rooster. That said, the SFL has come a long way from the bad old days when it was a basket case.

The SMJFL has also improved organisationally from my passing observation. In no small part due to the advice and assistance of AFL Victoria and the VAFA.

 

[Rooster 24]

Some valid criticism there Rooster. That said, the SFL has come a long way from the bad old days when it was a basket case.

The SMJFL has also improved organisationally from my passing observation. In no small part due to the advice and assistance of AFL Victoria and the VAFA.

Agree on both points. The 'old' MSJFL in particular was an absolute shambles and from all reports they now run a very good show. No question the SFL have improved but IMO still have a bit of work to do in some areas. Having well run and healthy competitons that provide viable alternatives is good for everyone.

 

[perspective]

AM I think if you ask the SMJFL Exec they will say that they have improved in spite of the VAFA and that the SFL helped them enormously. But it is just an opinion it is hard to judge whether a league has improved as the measurement in some cases is so subjective.But it would appear that the SMJFL still has a way to go if the voting procedure from 2014 is anything to go on, that was a shambles a bit like the bad old days of the MSJFL...
Anyway enough of the history, good luck to all the Ammo clubs in 2015 and have a great season.

 

[Rissoles]

Fair point Rooster re:20 yr olds, but my main point was whether you call it u19.5 or u19, it is what it is. The rules are the same for everyone so it shouldn't matter.
Five U19 Divisions shows how strong the concept is.
Are there any stats stating that we are losing kids to other activities because its an U19.5 rather than a true U19 comp? If there is then I'll be happy to change my mind on it.
To my mind re: U18s, you were never going to get a buy from the private school clubs because all their potential U18s would be playing school sport. St Bernards, Mazenod - ACC schools with no weekend sport.

There may not be any readily available stats but the stark fact is that having an age eligibility cut off in the middle of year means that players with birthdays in the second half of the year are eligible to play and those with birthdays in the first half of the year are not.

Young players who have played together all through junior football are faced with being split apart in VAFA U19 purely because of the age eligibility changing to the middle of the year.

The younger generation of today is at least if not more than previous generations showing strong evidence of mateship and togetherness. I have seen in my own involvement with VAFA junior football that young players are lost to senior football progression through the breaking up of playing with their mates.

If there is a sound reason for the VAFA to have age eligibility cut off in the middle of the year, they have never explained it. I doubt they can.

 

[demonstrate]

There may not be any readily available stats but the stark fact is that having an age eligibility cut off in the middle of year means that players with birthdays in the second half of the year are eligible to play and those with birthdays in the first half of the year are not.

Young players who have played together all through junior football are faced with being split apart in VAFA U19 purely because of the age eligibility changing to the middle of the year.

The younger generation of today is at least if not more than previous generations showing strong evidence of mateship and togetherness. I have seen in my own involvement with VAFA junior football that young players are lost to senior football progression through the breaking up of playing with their mates.

If there is a sound reason for the VAFA to have age eligibility cut off in the middle of the year, they have never explained it. I doubt they can.

Is that it ! The V.A.Fa. have never explained something so simple as-
1/All the same junior group get 2 years minimum together at u19 level
2/The younger half ie. Those born after 30/6 of any year get to choose to either play with their mates or play senior(after all at junior level these kids are often disadvantaged by being born later in the year)
3/Most leagues choose a mid year 19's because the lack of participation at this level is and has history to show that most clubs struggle to field teams at this age consistently(but then you would know that given your junior involvement)and often need these so called older kids just to sustain numbers.
4/That the competition is fair and balanced due to options available for late developers and the earlier developers are catered for at senior level if their good enough.
5/ Any split is generally because other leagues offer similar if not the same or heaven forbid, better options as this league/clubs,or the kids just get sick and tired of hearing political speeches about whats best for them from people they don't respect opinions of.Or they choose other sports/work/girls etc.etc.
6/But then given your background(you may have already worked this out yourself) In a private message you sent last year I expect their is no point listing any more explanations I assume you have worked this out yourself,unless you tell us all whats really motivating your stance on this ?.

Maybe time to consider another hobby or horse!

 

[Rissoles]

Not a hobby horse, Demonstrate, just providing a simple fact and real outcomes that your diatribe did nothing to refute. Have a good day.

 

[perspective]

You sound a bit edgey demonstrate some may say defensive.. Rissoles is just providing a valid view and comment. The idea may be to keep mre kids in the sport but it is counter productive because it breaks up friends playing footy together ...

 

[demonstrate]

You sound a bit edgey demonstrate some may say defensive.. Rissoles is just providing a valid view and comment. The idea may be to keep mre kids in the sport but it is counter productive because it breaks up friends playing footy together ...

If it keeps young blokes playing footy it doesn't matter, whether it is with the Ammos or Southern or anywhere the key is to keep blokes playing and if having an under 19.5 plus then who cares? It is a bit the same as this under 21 or 23 concept you could say that if you are any good at that age you should be in the real rep team but it gives these younger blokes a good chance to taste what it is like at rep footy level without being smashed at senior level. Inclusion is the key Hack because if we don't open all of our comps up to all comers and grades then we will continue to lose them,after all this is community football.... is that soccer I can hear knocking on the door???

 

[perspective]

So you have copied my post and???

 

[Tjblues]

I think a big question now would be how they are going to negotiate the early part of the season with regards to fixturing, given that there would be at least a few clubs with under 18s teams up and running. Do they insert these teams into the u19 north and south with a view to replicating the colts competition of last year?

 

[Rissoles]

I think a big question now would be how they are going to negotiate the early part of the season with regards to fixturing, given that there would be at least a few clubs with under 18s teams up and running. Do they insert these teams into the u19 north and south with a view to replicating the colts competition of last year?

 

[Rissoles]

So you have copied my post and???

The sad thing is that people like Demonstrate just don't get it. They get very defensive and provide ridiculous arguments and then just quote another member's comment without any reference as if it was their own. Sad. Very sad.

Until the VAFA realises that their underage age competition with their current age cut off (born before 30th june) cuts off half an age cohort in ANY under age competition they present - regardless of whether it is U18, U19 or U20, they will never understand the impact it has with boys coming through.

 

[SeaSide]

Combined Melbourne Metropolitan U18 Football League


Currently our suburban football leagues seem to be trying to outmaneuver each other with regard to their U18/Colts, U19 and U19.5 plus U18 and weaker (read U19 Reserves) U19 teams to the extent that many of the U18 competitions either fold, or are not worth having.


There are many clubs around the metropolitan area which would like to play their U18s, and if their competition is too panicky to have one, read on.


Have any of our ego tripping administrators from our various metropolitan competitions thought of taking off their blinkers by embracing a new U18 geographically aligned metropolitan body?


A concern for many competition heads gurus is that some of their clubs may try and desert their ships by jumping the fence into a different competition, but that goes both ways. If it happens, then ‘c’est la vie’. It’s a fact of life and has been happening for over 100 years. Can anybody name a club which has been in the same competition since its startup?


The Essendon League has a strong U18 competition, however the WRFL, Riddle and some Northern League clubs may like to join ranks in order to form a year by year (with clubs/teams coming and going) with similarly placed VAFA teams in a combined loose geographically based competition prior to their players returning to their own competitions.


A similar scenario exists with some Northern and Eastern clubs, as with the SFL and MP with all areas dotted with VAFA teams wishing to play.


We, as a football community need to support each other as we don’t want to lose our U18s due to petty jealousies.


Just a thought.