MMA-UFC UFC 257

Who wins?

  • Poirier

  • McGregor


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phantom13

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Who's the next star?
Chimaev, Holland, Adesanya, Walker, Ribas, Ngannou etc.

Who knows? The guys you reference come from their standing as draft picks. No one cares about highly rated fighters until they perform.
Brady was 199 draft pick, Mahomes was the third picked QB for that year, Watt is a defensive player...

The UFC chooses some guys and girls to market to the masses and others get forgotten about, whens the last time someone mentioned Tyron Woodley or Mighty Mouse (who was argurably the best P4P guy in the world).

Im not saying the UFC is doing anything wrong just that its a volatile. Theyve poured alot into Conor and Conor has repaid them tenfold, if he loses his next fight and then retires who is the UFC going to mass promote? Im not sure theres a better way to do it just pointing out the other sports have much more redundancy in their stars.
 

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Topkent

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Brady was 199 draft pick, Mahomes was the third picked QB for that year, Watt is a defensive player...

The UFC chooses some guys and girls to market to the masses and others get forgotten about, whens the last time someone mentioned Tyron Woodley or Mighty Mouse (who was argurably the best P4P guy in the world).

Im not saying the UFC is doing anything wrong just that its a volatile. Theyve poured alot into Conor and Conor has repaid them tenfold, if he loses his next fight and then retires who is the UFC going to mass promote? Im not sure theres a better way to do it just pointing out the other sports have much more redundancy in their stars.
Mate the NFL, NHL and NBA have wall to wall coverage on sports news here. The NFL don't specifically promote their stars better than the UFC. They are just ingrained in the cultures of the sports all over the country.
UFC been around 25 years.

The last 4 years on ESPN. The huge PPV numbers of Diaz, Masvidal and Khabib show you theyve moved past Conor. UFC doesn't want a superstar model, they don't wanna pay blokes 30m a fight.

They want solid events and a weekly ESPN show thats worth way more long term.
 

phantom13

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Mate the NFL, NHL and NBA have wall to wall coverage on sports news here. The NFL don't specifically promote their stars better than the UFC. They are just ingrained in the cultures of the sports all over the country.
UFC been around 25 years.

The last 4 years on ESPN. The huge PPV numbers of Diaz, Masvidal and Khabib show you theyve moved past Conor. UFC doesn't want a superstar model, they don't wanna pay blokes 30m a fight.

They want solid events and a weekly ESPN show thats worth way more long term.
So again... Who do they have after Conor? You seem to think im arguing with you, im not and i dont know a better way to do it, just pointing out its risky.
 

Topkent

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So again... Who do they have after Conor? You seem to think im arguing with you, im not and i dont know a better way to do it, just pointing out its risky.
Conor hasn't fought really in 4 years, they don't need another Conor is what I'm saying. They're already on ESPN.
They just need more people to like the sport.

Conors a once in a lifetime magic in a bottle essentially, it's propelled them into the mainstream they good now.
 

phantom13

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Conor hasn't fought really in 4 years, they don't need another Conor is what I'm saying. They're already on ESPN.
They just need more people to like the sport.

Conors a once in a lifetime magic in a bottle essentially, it's propelled them into the mainstream they good now.
And yet he was still the most discussed fighter on the roster.
 

azlou

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Conor hasn't fought really in 4 years, they don't need another Conor is what I'm saying. They're already on ESPN.
They just need more people to like the sport.

Conors a once in a lifetime magic in a bottle essentially, it's propelled them into the mainstream they good now.
I agree Max Holloway even Volkanovski can become a star by default if he keeps winning
There is a lot more media covering the sport now
There has always been ebbs and flows of interest but I feel the base line is a lot higher
It’s become a more international sport
The fact that Whittaker vs Costa is free on a fight night points to that
 

Topkent

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Will the business continue to grow? Conor has brought a bunch of eyes to the sport, how many of them leave when he does.
I think it will yes.
Again, they've done stadium shows, hit a million PPVs and had huge ESPN shows and none of it has involved Conor. They're great without him.
 

burge13

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Rivalries create stars as much as winning does.
Anderson needed Chael. Jones and DC needed each other. Penn/Hughes/GSP propelled one another. Khabib post Conor was a different star power

It's hard to say who will be the next stars. You need a combination of smooth talker, finishing ability, and a rival.

Max and Ferguson are good examples of being awesome in the cage but terrible on the mic. Never really went mainstream despite their in cage performance being worthy

Volk and Rob are victims of their own mic work. Rob is a good looking rooster, has a rivalry with Izzy, clearly a top 2 MW but he can't leverage it into stardom.

Ngannou will be a megastar if he beats Stipe. Already should be
They were hoping O'Malley would be more. Chimaev has 'it' but needs more wins. People tune in for him

Also doesn't help the UFC don't promote anything but their own brand. They've done a great job of that but it doesn't lend itself to creating 'stars'. In actual fact, their business model doesn't even need 'stars' anymore. With the ESPN deal, they don't need them. They get their money whether Conor is there or not. Stars are just added advertising more than a large paycheque
 

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Topkent

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Rivalries create stars as much as winning does.
Anderson needed Chael. Jones and DC needed each other. Penn/Hughes/GSP propelled one another. Khabib post Conor was a different star power

It's hard to say who will be the next stars. You need a combination of smooth talker, finishing ability, and a rival.

Max and Ferguson are good examples of being awesome in the cage but terrible on the mic. Never really went mainstream despite their in cage performance being worthy

Volk and Rob are victims of their own mic work. Rob is a good looking rooster, has a rivalry with Izzy, clearly a top 2 MW but he can't leverage it into stardom.

Ngannou will be a megastar if he beats Stipe. Already should be
They were hoping O'Malley would be more. Chimaev has 'it' but needs more wins. People tune in for him

Also doesn't help the UFC don't promote anything but their own brand. They've done a great job of that but it doesn't lend itself to creating 'stars'. In actual fact, their business model doesn't even need 'stars' anymore. With the ESPN deal, they don't need them. They get their money whether Conor is there or not. Stars are just added advertising more than a large paycheque
Australia needs someone with the off field presence of Kyrgious, and the in cage discipline of Whittaker. That's a world star right there
 

azlou

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Speaking of Justin, how could anybody watch this and not be a fan of the guy?

Good interview he came across as thoughtful and honest except for the bit where he retires if Conner gets next title shot next
Mentioned fighting McGregor next and said it would be a challenge executing his leg kicks on a southpaw
He also said confidence was a big weapon for Ferguson and thinks that has diminished
I wonder if some of Conners confidence is diminished and how that effects his future fights
Beating Conner no longer holds the prestige it once did but the top lightweights still want to fight him
 

azlou

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Will the business continue to grow? Conor has brought a bunch of eyes to the sport, how many of them leave when he does.
I don’t think it really matters the actual level of talent across most divisions has never been higher
There are so many great fights to look forward to this year
With such low fighter pay the only thing that could affect the business side are the upcoming court cases involving the UFC and the fighters
I know Dana loved trump I don’t if the Democrats will have the same fondness of Dana’s business model
Not sure it matters if the courts are the ones to decide
The Ali act is something that could come into play
When it comes to stars I think you need a few qualities one is high level of talent and ability two is you need a percentage of people watching to see you lose
The last intangible is humour Chael had it Ali had it Conner,Izzy they have to be entertaining
Some like Colby try but there isn’t any wit
 

cotter101

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Good interview he came across as thoughtful and honest except for the bit where he retires if Conner gets next title shot next
Mentioned fighting McGregor next and said it would be a challenge executing his leg kicks on a southpaw
He also said confidence was a big weapon for Ferguson and thinks that has diminished
I wonder if some of Conners confidence is diminished and how that effects his future fights
Beating Conner no longer holds the prestige it once did but the top lightweights still want to fight him
Also touched on how the lack of a crowd helped him remain focused in that ferguson fight. I think it probably done the opposite for Conor who thrives off those big crowds.
 

azlou

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Also touched on how the lack of a crowd helped him remain focused in that ferguson fight. I think it probably done the opposite for Conor who thrives off those big crowds.
Not sure if his nice guy image is because of his court case his kids or loss of confidence but he looked nervous at the start of the fight
The way he shacked his hands looked like some one shaking nerves out
Any success he has from here will be much harder than any success he has had previously
I’ve got kids and love and want to spend time with them he will soon have 3
It’s not just time but the focus and mental discipline is diluted
Some of his post fight interview skirted many options for fights then back to the title
 

azlou

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Also touched on how the lack of a crowd helped him remain focused in that ferguson fight. I think it probably done the opposite for Conor who thrives off those big crowds.
Also Kavanagh might be a good coach they had a good game plan for the second Diaz fight
There hasn’t been many other top fighters come from his stable
Maybe he stumbled on a unicorn
The fact Conner didn’t throw a front kick or a teep kick indicates over confidence or poor coaching
They are 2 kicks that help him set range and distance
I also have a feeling he was sparring to much with boxing gloves
As soon as he got in trouble he crossed his arms which works with gloves
Then he realised how open he was but ducked when he should of weaved
 

azlou

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Again, the little pre fight workout had no bearing on the fight. Both are experienced fighters who have the routines that work for them. How does Izzy Adesanya win any fights? Comes from the same gym with the same low energy warm up.

Cutting all head kicks out is stupid, it's called a spinning hook kick, plus his head kick just finished Cerrone last fight. It's a great weapon especially for someone who wants to fight at distance.

Lifting the leg isn't how you check them, you either turn your leg further out which was his problem or counter them over the top.

CONORS whole career was built on a wider stance than that, that's the narrowest stance he's used in the UFC, if anything he didn't have enough movement and was stuck to heavy in a boxing style stance
 

azlou

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Just rewatched the fight Conners stance was short not as short as Dustins but short for Conner and heavy on the front leg
He didn’t use movement,kicks other than one good leg kick he was very boxing based
 

Ryz

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Couldn't give a flying about a fighters personality, more excited about how they go in the cage.

But at the end of the day they need to sell tickets. While boxing financially is a very healthy sport, 99% of boxers in modern times have a personality of a fish. Take Fury out of boxing, and the average joe wouldn't have taken much interest in the last few years.

Is what it is.

Think there is some confusing discussion here about what constitutes a star. Ronda and Conor are megastars that didn't need rivalries at all.

No-one has or looks to getting to their level.

Not knocking Izzy, but the average person still has NFI who he is. Until these guys get big double page spreads in major newspapers, they're stars as far as the hardcore or casual UFC fans.
 

Ryz

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But I'm happy to watch women's MMA/boxing. I think with fight sports a good contest is important, the relative skill levels not so much, I still enjoy going to local amateur boxing for example.

That's why I haven't understood certain poster(s) here constantly shitcanning WMMA.

It's not wrong to say the level is the same as the mens, but they need to start somewhere.

Relative to the mens, the gap is much smaller than other sports. Think the talent in the women's divisions has come a long way in a very short period of time talent and ability wise, especially considering they have far less earning potential than an AFLW footballer for example.
 

Topkent

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That's why I haven't understood certain poster(s) here constantly shitcanning WMMA.

It's not wrong to say the level is the same as the mens, but they need to start somewhere.

Relative to the mens, the gap is much smaller than other sports. Think the talent in the women's divisions has come a long way in a very short period of time talent and ability wise, especially considering they have far less earning potential than an AFLW footballer for example.

It's because of the finish and decision rate.

The only 2 men's division with a higher than 50% decision rate are fly and featherweight.
Heavyweight and light heavy go to decision 25 and 35% of the time.


In the women's, only feather weight at 45% is below a 60% decision rate, the other 3 are 60 and above including the fly and straw weights which see a ko/TKO in only 1.25 of 10 fights. The worst in the men's is 2.2 in 10 in featherweight which is still nearly double the 2 female divisions.
 

Ryz

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It's because of the finish and decision rate.

The only 2 men's division with a higher than 50% decision rate are fly and featherweight.
Heavyweight and light heavy go to decision 25 and 35% of the time.


In the women's, only feather weight at 45% is below a 60% decision rate, the other 3 are 60 and above including the fly and straw weights which see a ko/TKO in only 1.25 of 10 fights. The worst in the men's is 2.2 in 10 in featherweight which is still nearly double the 2 female divisions.
Not sure what point you're trying to make sorry mate.

I'm not saying the women's is the same as the mens, I'm saying I don't get how certain posters here grind the axe like women's MMA shouldn't be in existence at all.
 

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