So you did drink the kool aid ? Think for yourself, question authority, nothing is black and white. You don't seem very knowledgeable about either history or what's going on at the moment.
Ukraine on verge of civil war?
- Thread starter medusala
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Nuggs Bunny
Moderator
Essendon Player Sponsor 2024 - Archie Perkins and Nic Martin
Essendon Player Sponsor 2023 - Archie Perkins and Nic Martin
Essendon Player Sponsor 2022 - Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti and Archie Perkins
Essendon Player Sponsor 2021 - Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti and Archie Perkins
Essendon Player Sponsor 2020 - Orazio Fantasia, Anthony McDonald Tipungwuti, Shaun McKernan
- Moderator
- #1,327
Why is the prosecution flawed?
smokingjacket
Premiership Player
- Mar 30, 2014
- 3,543
- 3,660
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Liverpool
With all due respect, go * yourself. You're not the spokesperson for Ukraine's Jews and whether they feel threatened or not, particularly when they've said on a number of occasions that they feel threatened. What about marches glorifying the SS; defacing Holocaust memorials with Nazi images; firebombing synagogues, cemeteries, Jewish centres and Holocaust memorials; and torchlit marches of thousands of people expressing their wish to kill the Jews are you missing? These are not actions that happen in Australia and when they do cause major investigations and arrest. Some of the pro-SS rallies in Lviv are promoted through the Mayor's office!
These are not fringe elements either. Two months ago a General in the security services threatened to exterminate the zhidi. Multiple mayors of provinces have said the same. As I said, there's a strong crossover between the fringe, outright neo-fascist groups - who are still in parliament by the way - and the broader nationalist coalition seeking to create a singular Ukrainian national culture.
- Dec 22, 2009
- 62,724
- 36,768
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Absolute bullshit. Every county including western countries have far right extremists.
The far right performed poorly in parliament elections in Ukraine - that is a fact. Stop trying to make out that Ukraine is a Neo Nazi country - it is not.
Poroshenko is an alcoholic oligarch very much in the mould of Yeltsin. Ukraine is getting more, rather than less corrupt, and poorer rather than richer.
See this good analysis of the Ukrainian economic problems
https://112.international/article/f...-happened-to-the-ukrainian-economy-22917.html
The Azov Battalion (using "Eastern Corps" as its backbone[18]) was formed on 5 May 2014 in Berdiansk[21] by a white nationalist.[22] Many members of Patriot of Ukraine joined the battalion.[18] Among the early patrons of the battalion were a member of the Verkhovna Rada Oleh Lyashko, and an ultra-nationalist Dmytro Korchynsky and businessman Serhiy Taruta and Avakov.[23][18] The battalion then received training near Kiev by instructors with experience in the Georgian Armed Forces.[18] The battalion started in Mariupolwhere it was involved in combat,[3] and was briefly relocated to Berdiansk.[24]
Reports published by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCR) have connected the Azov Battalion to alleged war crimes such as mass looting, unlawful detention, and torture.[64][65] An OHCHR report from March 2016 stated that the organisation had "collected detailed information about the conduct of hostilities by Ukrainian armed forces and the Azov regiment in and around Shyrokyne (31km east of Mariupol), from the summer of 2014 to date. Mass looting of civilian homes was documented, as well as targeting of civilian areas between September 2014 and February 2015".[64] Another OHCHR report documented an instance of alleged rape and torture, writing: "A man with a mental disability was subject to cruel treatment, rape and other forms of sexual violence by 8 to 10 members of the 'Azov' and 'Donbas' battalions in August–September 2014. The victim's health subsequently deteriorated and he was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital."[65] A report from January 2015 stated that a Donetsk Republic supporter was detained and tortured with electricity and waterboarding, which resulted in his confessing spying for pro-Russian militants.[65]
Most soldiers of Azov are followers of a Ukrainian nationalist type of Rodnovery (Slavic Native Faith), wherefrom they derive some of their symbolism (like swastika-like symbol kolovrat). They have also established Rodnover shrines for their religious rites, including one in Mariupol dedicated to Perun.[66][67][68][unreliable source] Due to the use of such symbols, Azov has been depicted as having connections with neo-Nazism, with members wearing neo-Nazi and SS symbols and regalia and that the unit has neo-Nazis among its ranks.[69][70] German ZDF television showed images of Azov fighters wearing helmets with swastika symbols and "the SS runes of Hitler's infamous black-uniformed elite corps".[71]
In writing about the battalion's ideology, Richard Sakwa wrote that its founding member Andryi Biletsky (leader of the neo-Nazi Social-National Assembly) made statements about "historic mission" to lead "white races of the world in a final crusade for their survival ... a crusade against the Semite-led Untermenschen"; according to Sakwa, this ideology has its root in national integralism of 1920s and 30s.[72]
Excerpts from Wikipedia- Azov battalion
Reports published by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCR) have connected the Azov Battalion to alleged war crimes such as mass looting, unlawful detention, and torture.[64][65] An OHCHR report from March 2016 stated that the organisation had "collected detailed information about the conduct of hostilities by Ukrainian armed forces and the Azov regiment in and around Shyrokyne (31km east of Mariupol), from the summer of 2014 to date. Mass looting of civilian homes was documented, as well as targeting of civilian areas between September 2014 and February 2015".[64] Another OHCHR report documented an instance of alleged rape and torture, writing: "A man with a mental disability was subject to cruel treatment, rape and other forms of sexual violence by 8 to 10 members of the 'Azov' and 'Donbas' battalions in August–September 2014. The victim's health subsequently deteriorated and he was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital."[65] A report from January 2015 stated that a Donetsk Republic supporter was detained and tortured with electricity and waterboarding, which resulted in his confessing spying for pro-Russian militants.[65]
Most soldiers of Azov are followers of a Ukrainian nationalist type of Rodnovery (Slavic Native Faith), wherefrom they derive some of their symbolism (like swastika-like symbol kolovrat). They have also established Rodnover shrines for their religious rites, including one in Mariupol dedicated to Perun.[66][67][68][unreliable source] Due to the use of such symbols, Azov has been depicted as having connections with neo-Nazism, with members wearing neo-Nazi and SS symbols and regalia and that the unit has neo-Nazis among its ranks.[69][70] German ZDF television showed images of Azov fighters wearing helmets with swastika symbols and "the SS runes of Hitler's infamous black-uniformed elite corps".[71]
In writing about the battalion's ideology, Richard Sakwa wrote that its founding member Andryi Biletsky (leader of the neo-Nazi Social-National Assembly) made statements about "historic mission" to lead "white races of the world in a final crusade for their survival ... a crusade against the Semite-led Untermenschen"; according to Sakwa, this ideology has its root in national integralism of 1920s and 30s.[72]
Excerpts from Wikipedia- Azov battalion
All the member bar Malaysia had a vested interest in finding Russia guilty.
- Feb 24, 2013
- 45,365
- 37,740
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
- Banned
- #1,333
Actually, it's the nearest thing to it currently in existence.
And beginning your premise with hyperbole merely paints you as a hysterical poster, who posts based upon pure emotional ejaculations....and not much else.
- Dec 22, 2009
- 62,724
- 36,768
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/24/russia-neo-nazi-football-hooligans-world-cup
I guess Ukraine reserves the right to invade Russia and protect the Jews from a clearly fascist country that Russia is.
I guess Ukraine reserves the right to invade Russia and protect the Jews from a clearly fascist country that Russia is.
- Feb 24, 2013
- 45,365
- 37,740
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
- Banned
- #1,335
Unlike the Fascist, racist, apartheid Israeli DF, shooting& killing unarmed Palestinian protestors....Just as the NAZI's did.....Clearly they'd feel right at home then.
- Dec 22, 2009
- 62,724
- 36,768
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Why are you bringing this up? It has nothing to do with events in Ukraine orchestrated by Russia.
- Feb 24, 2013
- 45,365
- 37,740
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
- Banned
- #1,337
Oh?.....Funny....I was sure it was the U.S European foreign minister who initiated the coup that began all this....By ousting the Democratically elected Ukranian PM via a C.I.A led coup....With paid snipers from Eastern Europe on hand to cause chaos & carnage.
- Dec 22, 2009
- 62,724
- 36,768
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Rubbish. Netherlands had a vested interest in finding the culprits responsible. Australia had no interest in finding Russia guilty; if anything it has harmed Australia with many agricultural exports stopped completely. I have a colleague that lost his job at Expo Trade - a company that exported cattle to Russia. They went into liquidation after trade ceased between Russia / Australia post MH17 atrocity / Donbass war. Belgium are as close to neutral as you could possibly get. A politically insignificant country. And Malaysia obviously.
Only Ukraine have a vested interest in finding Russia guilty with the 2 nations unofficially at war. They had to he involved in the investigation when the crime was committed on their territory.
Russia was also part of the investigation as an observer. Quite noticeably they didn't start spewing their propaganda deal until AFTER the investigation results were released.
The JIT investigation was as neutral as anyone could possibly get under the circumstances.
I guess you believe it should have been left in the hands of the Russians to investigate themselves.
- Feb 24, 2013
- 45,365
- 37,740
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
- Banned
- #1,339
Um....It was the Ukranian airport, under Western allied control, that sent that airliner intentionally off course & into that area.....It was also Kiev who scrambled 2 Su30 jets to intercept it, with one of them shooting it down....Those jets were of course, Russian built & were equipped with Russian rockets....The cockpit had also been shot-out by machine-gun fire from a military jet.
You just don't seem able to get any facts right at all.
Pot kettle black? What does soccer hooligans have to do with Ukraine coup? They aren't being incorporated into the regular army or leading revolution like in Ukraine.
smokingjacket
Premiership Player
- Mar 30, 2014
- 3,543
- 3,660
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Liverpool
If a senior figure of ASIO or DIO came out and said they were quite keen on erasing the Jews or someone comparable like Indigenous Australians, then I might be more willing to hear you out. Ukraine has an enormous problem with antisemitism, so does Russia, but for a number of reasons Ukraine also has a problem with resurgent fascist movements with broad links to major parliamentary parties and military in a similar vein to the paramilitary fascist groups in the wars of Yugoslavia.
I don't think that makes Ukraine a "neo-Nazi country" but it is a country playing a dangerous game with fascist elements in its society.
Maybe Belarus,Iran or China could have been involved that would have displayed effort at balance.
- Dec 22, 2009
- 62,724
- 36,768
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Iran, one of Russia's closest allies. And you have a problem with Australia being on the investigation when there 30+ Australian victims.
- Dec 22, 2009
- 62,724
- 36,768
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Going by your logic Australia is a country full of racist imbeciles because Pauline Hanson is in government.
Essentially what happened in Ukraine was a pro us revolution with some violence. All those nations bar Malaysia are in formal alliances with us bar Ukraine who has the proven us puppet poroshenko as leader and is the alternative suspect. Ukraine also had the power to veto release of findings. Sounds fair.
smokingjacket
Premiership Player
- Mar 30, 2014
- 3,543
- 3,660
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Liverpool
No, just Queenslanders. As lowly as I think of Pauline Hanson, she's not a Nazi, and her ideas have zero institutional support within the Australian government. Unlike in Ukraine where senior members of the military and intelligence have expressed a desire to rid Ukraine of Jews, many more blame the Jews for Ukraine's problems and many more still want to create a singular Ukrainian culture which requires the suppression of all others.
- Feb 24, 2013
- 45,365
- 37,740
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
- Banned
- #1,347
I'm sure those Oz victims would be interested in knowing why the head of MOSSAD security at the time of the planes crash, was on the tarmac during it's take-off from Amsterdam, taking snap-shots of that plane.
www.theeventchronicle.com/mh17/mh17-sabotaged-israeli-security-team-amsterdam-schiphol-airport/#
Last edited:
- Dec 22, 2009
- 62,724
- 36,768
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
What does the investigation have to do with the US? Russian military shot down a civilian plane while operating illegally in Ukraine. It's not a US issue, that's all you keep going back to. You're just as bad as the Russians who won't face up to their actions because it means political defeat for them in East Ukraine.
It has everything to do with the us, since it's a proxy war where the us will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. Remember mrs "* the eu" nuland bragged of engineering the coup, and poroshenko was a known CIA asset.
- Feb 24, 2013
- 45,365
- 37,740
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
- Banned
- #1,350
– first, the MH17 crash diverted international media attention from the launch of the Israeli invasion of Gaza, which is a serious rupture of existing peace accords and a massive assault on human rights. Malaysia is an outspoken voice in the UN and the world media on Palestinian rights in Gaza.
– second, Israel, even with the Zionist economic interests in Russia such as BP, has a historical interest in the 45 000-member strong Jewish community in the port of Odessa, which has a large stake in the financial sector, military electronics industry, missile production and weapons factories. PBN and GQR, lobbying organizations controlled by American Jewish neoconservatives, are the most influential force in Ukraine politics.
– third, the destruction of MH17 serves as a warning to the governments of Malaysia and Australia to cease any further investigation into the strong possibility that MH370 was hijacked by the Israeli military. MH370 was carrying engineers, designers, prototypes, specifications and a chip foundry for the world’s smallest microchip, the KL series. The leading edge technology is needed for Israel’s crash program to build a drone army, especially mini-robots capable of infiltrating Iran’s nuclear plants. (This writer has extensively researched a nd uncovered Israeli involvement in the MH370 hijacking at rense.com)
– second, Israel, even with the Zionist economic interests in Russia such as BP, has a historical interest in the 45 000-member strong Jewish community in the port of Odessa, which has a large stake in the financial sector, military electronics industry, missile production and weapons factories. PBN and GQR, lobbying organizations controlled by American Jewish neoconservatives, are the most influential force in Ukraine politics.
– third, the destruction of MH17 serves as a warning to the governments of Malaysia and Australia to cease any further investigation into the strong possibility that MH370 was hijacked by the Israeli military. MH370 was carrying engineers, designers, prototypes, specifications and a chip foundry for the world’s smallest microchip, the KL series. The leading edge technology is needed for Israel’s crash program to build a drone army, especially mini-robots capable of infiltrating Iran’s nuclear plants. (This writer has extensively researched a nd uncovered Israeli involvement in the MH370 hijacking at rense.com)
