Ukraine on verge of civil war?

[Zidane98]

It has everything to do with the us, since it's a proxy war where the us will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. Remember mrs "**** the eu" nuland bragged of engineering the coup, and poroshenko was a known CIA asset.

Rubbish. The US have done next to nothing in Ukraine despite pressure to do so and the Budapest treaty meaning they are obliged to defend Ukraine from foreign threats.

The MH17 disaster does not involve the US at all and that's why they had no role in the investigation. Russia committd a heinous act and it is nobodies fault but their own. One thing Russians never do is admit guilt.

 

[awaremind]

Rubbish. The US have done next to nothing in Ukraine despite pressure to do so and the Budapest treaty meaning they are obliged to defend Ukraine from foreign threats.

The MH17 disaster does not involve the US at all and that's why they had no role in the investigation. Russia committd a heinous act and it is nobodies fault but their own. One thing Russians never do is admit guilt.

One thing you do is never admit when you are wrong which you clearly are on some points about this issue, why don't you go chat to pro Isis troll John h in the Syrian war thread, you two would get on great.

 

[Zidane98]

Russian forces going on the offensive in Donbas yet again:

https://www.unian.info/war/10146134...sitions-in-donbas-ukraine-s-def-ministry.html

Rebels have also been actively mining roads into the area. An OSCE car was actually destroyed by a mine placed in rebel territory resulting in the deaths of an OSCE observer:

https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/312971

It's pretty clear the Russians are in for the long haul and intend to cause as much death / destruction and misery as possible for Ukraine in an effort to cripple the country. Ukraine cannot pursue its ambitions to join the European economic community as long as this conflict is maintained. The Russians know that the US are too weak to get involved and can easily continue to fight off Ukranian forces who are no match for the Russian military.

Really sad that so many residents of Donbass have had to leave and the ones that are left live in a lawless land in fear of the rebels. Poroshenko conceded autonomous rule for the Donbass region - that should have been enough for the DPR / Russian fascist junta to move on. The way things are going Russia will continue this war for years.

 

[footyfan1978]

Pretty much. Russians are a low unto themselves in that part of Europe.

 

[Zidane98]

Russia doesn't want to inherit Donbass because the financial responsibilities are too great.

Poroshenko conceding autonomous rule for 3 years should have been enough for the rebels / Russian military to up stumps and move on. There's no reason why Ukraine can't still maintain relations with Russia after EU integration. That's the only way forward for Donbass. Certainly beats being run by a bunch of lawless thugs who have the backing of the Russian military to cause havoc.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Pretty much. Russians are a low unto themselves in that part of Europe.

They were invited into the Donbass region by the inhabitants there, who are over 80% of Russian ethnic origin, for their protection.

Russia didn't initiate the fascist coup in the Ukraine, which has led to this entire mess.....The west did that, at the behest of certain elements out of Odessa.

The Russians aren't interested in a war, they are there to protect Russian citizens.....Only vested western mining interests are interested in conflict in the Donbass region, as a means to secure certain resources in the region.

Zidane is merely promulgating Nonsense western media propaganda once again....As is his want across the big footy boards.

 

[footyfan1978]

They were invited into the Donbass region by the inhabitants there, who are over 80% of Russian ethnic origin, for their protection.

Exactly. It is not Russia. They just take what they want.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Exactly. It is not Russia. They just take what they want.

Russia was invited.....The U.S & it's C.I.A coup was not......Please learn the difference between facts & propaganda.

 

[Zidane98]

Russia were not invited by anyone into the Donbass and the majority of its residents have been internally displaced to elsewhere in the Ukraine.

This is not a US vs Russia issue - Ukraine has a history of trying to break away from Russian hemegony ever since the days of being starved by Stalin. Russian leadership believes that Ukraine is no different from Russia and wants to maintain its stranglehold over the country.

Ukraine should be allowed to pursue democracy by Russia. It has its own culture and history separate to Russia. History shows that Russia has never had Ukraine's interests at heart. Anyone in Donbass that really wants to live under Russian rule can quite easily travel 1 hour east and settle there.

 

[footyfan1978]

You buy the Russia propaganda, duly noted procr

 

[awaremind]

Russian forces going on the offensive in Donbas yet again:

https://www.unian.info/war/10146134...sitions-in-donbas-ukraine-s-def-ministry.html

Rebels have also been actively mining roads into the area. An OSCE car was actually destroyed by a mine placed in rebel territory resulting in the deaths of an OSCE observer:

https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/312971

It's pretty clear the Russians are in for the long haul and intend to cause as much death / destruction and misery as possible for Ukraine in an effort to cripple the country. Ukraine cannot pursue its ambitions to join the European economic community as long as this conflict is maintained. The Russians know that the US are too weak to get involved and can easily continue to fight off Ukranian forces who are no match for the Russian military.

Really sad that so many residents of Donbass have had to leave and the ones that are left live in a lawless land in fear of the rebels. Poroshenko conceded autonomous rule for the Donbass region - that should have been enough for the DPR / Russian fascist junta to move on. The way things are going Russia will continue this war for years.

Ukrainian offensive has been planned to coincide with wc . They posted some nice drone video of them destroying DNr positions about 3 weeks ago, did you think there wouldn’t bd a response?

 

[Procrastinator35]

You buy the Russia propaganda, duly noted procr

What I buy is the facts of the case.....Do some research instead of mealy-mouthing western MSM propaganda as fact.

Russia upholds international law & does not invade other countries without first being invited.....The U.S & it's allies -on the other hand - do not!....As all of Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, The Sudan, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, Vietnam, Laos, Korea, El Salvador, Ecuador, Honduras, Panama etc, etc, will attest to over these past 73 years, post world War 2.

The U.S is the corporate robber barons military weapon by which to steal resources & land from other countries.....Study some history & you would know this.

 

[footyfan1978]

When you propagate their propaganda for them, shows how brilliant they are at it.

 

[Procrastinator35]

When you propagate their propaganda for them, shows how brilliant they are at it.

Russia isn't spreading any propaganda.....That's just the point.....The west is; & you continue to swallow it holus bolus.

 

[Zidane98]

Ukrainian offensive has been planned to coincide with wc . They posted some nice drone video of them destroying DNr positions about 3 weeks ago, did you think there wouldn’t bd a response?

Offensive? Ukranian actions are generally defensive in retaliation to Russian / Rebel aggression.

Nice of the rebels and 17000 Russian troops to bomb the s**t out of Debaltseve after the Minsk agreement was signed. Because they are such lovely people 500 civillians died hiding in cellars from the shelling.

Russia is not wanted in East Ukraine.

 

[awaremind]

Offensive? Ukranian actions are generally defensive in retaliation to Russian / Rebel aggression.

Nice of the rebels and 17000 Russian troops to bomb the s**t out of Debaltseve after the Minsk agreement was signed. Because they are such lovely people 500 civillians died hiding in cellars from the shelling.

Russia is not wanted in East Ukraine.

Why then was eastern Ukraine the stronghold of the pro Russian politicians in whole decade prior to the coup? To deny this would clearly show your disconnect from reality. Why would it be surprising if, when Kiev was taken by force that the supporters of the elected government not take their strongholds by force? How is Ukraine improving since the pro western coup? By most reports, western and otherwise, corruption is actually increasing, and the economy is undeniably getting worse.

 

[Zidane98]

Why then was eastern Ukraine the stronghold of the pro Russian politicians in whole decade prior to the coup? To deny this would clearly show your disconnect from reality. Why would it be surprising if, when Kiev was taken by force that the supporters of the elected government not take their strongholds by force? How is Ukraine improving since the pro western coup? By most reports, western and otherwise, corruption is actually increasing, and the economy is undeniably getting worse.

There is no such country as "Kiev". There was no forcible taking over of the government - that's blatant Russian propaganda. The new government was voted in with many of the previous members of the government also part of the new government that was formed after Yanukovych was arrested for blatant corruption.

Apart from war ravaged East Ukraine the rest of the country is doing fine. The Russian invasion of Donbass is taking its toll on Ukraine economically though.

 

[awaremind]

There is no such country as "Kiev". There was no forcible taking over of the government - that's blatant Russian propaganda. The new government was voted in with many of the previous members of the government also part of the new government that was formed after Yanukovych was arrested for blatant corruption.

Apart from war ravaged East Ukraine the rest of the country is doing fine. The Russian invasion of Donbass is taking its toll on Ukraine economically though.

Why don't you trot on and chat with John H about how Syria was almost overthrown by democracy loving nice guys, no jihadists there.

 

[Zidane98]

Why don't you trot on and chat with John H about how Syria was almost overthrown by democracy loving nice guys, no jihadists there.

What does Syria have to do with Ukraine ?

Two completely different situations.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Why don't you trot on and chat with John H about how Syria was almost overthrown by democracy loving nice guys, no jihadists there.

Zidane still believes that a 50-storey sky-scraper can collapse of it's own accord, or be detonated to the ground in perfect sync within 2 hours notice, without having been pre-wired for the job.....Ergo....He'll believe in any fairy-tale the Western MSM tells him to.

 

[Zidane98]

Zidane still believes that a 50-storey sky-scraper can collapse of it's own accord, or be detonated to the ground in perfect sync within 2 hours notice, without having been pre-wired for the job.....Ergo....He'll believe in any fairy-tale the Western MSM tells him to.

Try and keep your deluded and discredited conspiracy 9/11 theories in the 9/11 conspiracy forum please. I appreciate you'e been banned / embarrassed many times there in regards to your incoherent ramblings but this really isn't the thread to be peddling them.

 

[awaremind]

What does Syria have to do with Ukraine ?

Two completely different situations.

Quite a bit really, but if you aren’t going to engage in a realistic way why bother?

 

[Zidane98]

Quite a bit really, but if you aren’t going to engage in a realistic way why bother?

Says the person quoting nonsense Russian propaganda ad hoc.

Come to think of it Russia responded in exactly the same way you have when they were clearly guilty of murdering 298 innocent bystanders. "It couldn't possibly be us" - "everything is fabricated" "It was a Ukranian fighter jet". Life must be tough at the "Internet Research" agency in St Petersburg !!

 

[Procrastinator35]

Says the person quoting nonsense Russian propaganda ad hoc.

Come to think of it Russia responded in exactly the same way you have when they were clearly guilty of murdering 298 innocent bystanders. "It couldn't possibly be us" - "everything is fabricated" "It was a Ukranian fighter jet". Life must be tough at the "Internet Research" agency in St Petersburg !!

It's a total co-incidence how when MH17 was shot down, Netanyahu began immediately his bombing & destruction of Gaza, that left thousands killed & entire suburbs homeless thereafter.....A complete co-incidence.

When it comes to the Ukraine, Palestine & Syria you are completely clueless my friend.

 

[Zidane98]

It's a total co-incidence how when MH17 was shot down, Netanyahu began immediately his bombing & destruction of Gaza, that left thousands killed & entire suburbs homeless thereafter.....A complete co-incidence.

When it comes to the Ukraine, Palestine & Syria you are completely clueless my friend.

awaremind your mate has come up with the "Jews" did it theory for MH17. I'd love to hear how they managed to pull off this shootdown in broad daylight and get away with it!

Go on buddy - enlighten us with your thoroughly intelligent explanation of how Isarel managed to shoot a passenger down smack bang in the middle of territory controlled by Russian backed insurgents.

I've already got the popcorn warming in the oven, this should be some good comedic fun.