Analysis Umpires

[carlton_99]

What is holding the ball?

Is it taking possession then getting tackles by two blokes immediately? Is it getting tackled but getting your handpass off but the umpire's behind you so he can't see the disposal and guesses you threw it? Is it the ball getting knocked from your hands while you're being tackled? Is it getting tackled and kicking the ball?

All of these were given in this match, both ways. All of these went unpaid in this match, both ways.

What is holding the ball?

They can't even call a high tackle when someone gets their goggles taken off so no way they can get their heads around HTB. Shambolic one-sided Q4 umpiring.

 

[Gethelred]

They can't even call a high tackle when someone gets their goggles taken off so no way they can get their heads around HTB. Shambolic one-sided Q4 umpiring.

I don't even want to call bias because I think it misses the point.

What is HTB, the free kick?

If it is not clear cut and something that can be pointed to, paid first time, every time it is a drastic failure of of umpiring to pay it at all. Paying it only sometimes changes the outcomes of games of footy, as we have seen.

 

[Blue Doormat]

We the bed, no question.
2-3 gettable goals squandered
Refusal to do anything about Pickett
Gawn a star

But those decisions didn’t help either…

 

[Jabba73]

I don't even want to call bias because I think it misses the point.

The usual suspects making the usual decisions the usual way.

What is HTB, the free kick?

Depends on the umpire, the teams playing and the players involved.

If it is not clear cut and something that can be pointed to, paid first time, every time it is a drastic failure of of umpiring to pay it at all. Paying it only sometimes changes the outcomes of games of footy, as we have seen.

Yep.

There are no consequences so nothing will change

 

[Gethelred]

The usual suspects making the usual decisions the usual way.

Depends on the umpire, the teams playing and the players involved.

Yep.

There are no consequences so nothing will change

Good to see you round these parts again, Jabba. Pity it doesn't happen more often.

 

[Dramoth]

What is holding the ball?

Is it taking possession then getting tackles by two blokes immediately? Is it getting tackled but getting your handpass off but the umpire's behind you so he can't see the disposal and guesses you threw it? Is it the ball getting knocked from your hands while you're being tackled? Is it getting tackled and kicking the ball?

All of these were given in this match, both ways. All of these went unpaid in this match, both ways.

What is holding the ball?

Interpretation. If I was the club, I would be asking for clarification about the rules after those two diabolical bullshit holding the ball decisions that gave the game to Melbourne. After we got boned by those decisions, the whole team just dropped.

 

[Gethelred]

Interpretation. If I was the club, I would be asking for clarification about the rules after those two diabolical bullshit holding the ball decisions that gave the game to Melbourne. After we got boned by those decisions, the whole team just dropped.

Ah. Clarification.

I'm sorry, but clarification? Clarification implies that there has been a misunderstanding on our end. That we have made a mistake somewhere, and that we just have to unearth it for justice to occur.

**** clarification.

We didn't make a mistake. This whole thing comes as a result of the most experienced umpire in the ****ing comp calling holding the ball a situation no-one else would, and that decision swinging a game of football.

This happens because of the nigh 20 ****ing years of ****ing around with the rulebook, and the deliberate reduction in free kicks per game. Less frees means frees are more impactful when and where they occur; it makes them a real advantage to be obtained.

Do not seek clarification. Ruminate. Demand an explanation. Hold them hostage. Demand recompense. Insist, and hold them to it. Offer them fury; use the soft, financial power Carlton supposedly has in spades, and put pressure on the AFL commission. Demand. Pursue it. **** them, and **** us if we don't.

Why is it that the AFL ****ed around, but we're the ones finding out?

 

[Blue Pulse]

The AFL are making the game impossible to umpire and frustrating to watch.

Watching the first 3/4s live yesterday I think there were only one or 2-3 holding the ball decisions made and the game was allowed to flow, even though the first few rounds and practice matches they were red hot on rewarding the tackle even if the ball was knocked out or you looked to have any sort of prior.

Low and behold, come the last qtr they decide to start paying the holding the ball in totally different way to how it was interpreted in the first 3/4's and in front of goal. It was frustrating as a fan, demoralising as a player and a really poor look on the game.

 

[jj1978]

One pretty sheeeeeet call, but we lost by 4 goals in the end, were spent and made nothing of our chances after the 1st quarter. Umpiring has been below par, but we were bound to lose yesterday regardless.

 

[Blue Pulse]

One pretty sheeeeeet call, but we lost by 4 goals in the end, were spent and made nothing of our chances after the 1st quarter. Umpiring has been below par, but we were bound to lose yesterday regardless.

I don't think anyone is saying that the umpires cost us the game, I think it's more the inconsistencies in the umpiring that is causing the frustration. You don't expect them to get everything right but this new rule is an absolute blight on the game and won't improve the game in any way shape or form, especially if it is not consistent.

The rule is set up to benefit the person who is second to the ball and doesn't protect the ball carrier in any way shape or form.

 

[Broadside]

One pretty sheeeeeet call, but we lost by 4 goals in the end, were spent and made nothing of our chances after the 1st quarter. Umpiring has been below par, but we were bound to lose yesterday regardless.

It was 2 terrible calls and if they weren’t made I think we win. That said the club deserves all the heat coming its way as it shouldn’t have to come down to that. 7 goals up.

 

[ajb72]

14 goals to 4 after half time..........says more than any amount of bleating about how badly done we were.

 

[Dramoth]

14 goals to 4 after half time..........says more than any amount of bleating about how badly done we were.

We are not bleating about how badly we were done. We absolutely should not have got into that position in the end. We are talking about how absolutely bullshit the umpiring in the league is. Two HTB decisions right in front of their goal, one of which should have been paid as a high tackle on Frankie, definitely swung momentum away from us in the dying minutes of the game.

We used to have rules in the games, now we have ****ing interpretations. It's a ****ing joke. There are 4 field umpires, and none of them make the same calls twice.

We, the supporters of the game, are getting screwed by the AFL. We buy memberships, merch, tickets... and we get umpiring that would get the umpires banned from the bush leagues for ****ing match fixing. We need a new commission, we need a professional level of umpiring that is consistent. And we need the gambling companies out of the game.

 

[Gethelred]

One pretty sheeeeeet call, but we lost by 4 goals in the end, were spent and made nothing of our chances after the 1st quarter. Umpiring has been below par, but we were bound to lose yesterday regardless.

They kicked a goal to get within 20 points, and after a period of pronounced inproved effort on our part Elijah kicked a goal on the run, sezing back momentum and returning the margin back to 20 points. Matt Carroll then kicks a set shot dead through the middle after weaving his way from the back of a kick to the goalsquare.

It is at this point that the game should go one way. They had kicked a single goal to our two, and we've returned things to a safe buffer. At this point in the game, they have kicked eight goals in three and a bit quarters of footy. Past performance might not be a perfect predictor of future performance, but it serves as a pretty good indicator of a footy match most of the time.

Enter the most experienced umpire in the competition, and a free kick to Harry Sharp that was not given at any point across the entire round and probably is not given again for the entire rest of the season.

We were shit for most of the game yesterday, but that that game was directed one way before Brent Rosebury made his choice. You're welcome to your opinion and your thorough willingness to linger in darkness and despair, but most of the time the team that does what we did to that point in the game holds on without that decision occurring.

 

[Gointocarlton]

One pretty sheeeeeet call, but we lost by 4 goals in the end, were spent and made nothing of our chances after the 1st quarter. Umpiring has been below par, but we were bound to lose yesterday regardless.

I watched the mini today, 12:50 and three shit things happened which all resulted in Melb goals, the HTB against George (zero prior), the HTB against Evans (took his head off) and Florent had his legs taken out has he was kicking (no free). All resulted in goals at critical times and were utter howlers IMO.
We still still made errors like dropping simple marks (Concrete Hands Harry and Kemp) and missing simple kicks but those three umpiring howlers drove the knife in.

 

[Stamos]

Razor Ray on 360 showing clearly that both holding the balls against Hewett and Evans were wrong.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Razor Ray on 360 showing clearly that both holding the balls against Hewett and Evans were wrong.

Well that sucks even more.

 

[Stamos]

That article also noted the 90 second or so passage of play in the last quarter where it was probably our best for the whole year. The off the ball movement was great, drawing defenders to create space for others to move into and easily possess the football through slower, precise passing resulting in a goal. It doesn't require elite speed, but requires skills, thoughtful movement, and a willingness to create space for others. From that point on, we totally fell apart.

I messaged my mate at the time remarking about it being exactly what we needed to be doing in that moment to wrestle back some of the momentum. Unfortunately we reverted to static or non-existent movement ahead of the ball and dump kicks to a contest whenever we managed to actually gain possession of the footy again.

We were putting it together, then the umps paid that bullshit free against Hewett, and we dropped our bundle.

 

[GoBlues!]

We were putting it together, then the umps paid that bullshit free against Hewett, and we dropped our bundle.

Razor Ray agrees with you Stamos…

 

[Monty1978]

Razor Ray agrees with you Stamos…

Razor also said the Evans one they got wrong …doesn’t excuse the loss but geez they were crucial decisions

 

[RPCB]

Razor Ray agrees with you Stamos…

I am not saying Ray Chamberlain is wrong in this instance because he isn’t, but why does every single historically bad and corrupt retired umpire think we should care about their opinion on umpiring decisions?

 

[myblueroan]

Razor Ray agrees with you Stamos…

Dickhead ump.
Better not happen again.

 

[Blue since 72]

I am not saying Ray Chamberlain is wrong in this instance because he isn’t, but why does every single historically bad and corrupt retired umpire think we should care about their opinion on umpiring decisions?

Was definitely no prior.

Logic dictates that you must give the player enough time to actually set up to dispose the ball correctly either by hand or foot before calling prior opp, otherwise you're essentially asking the player to throw the ball away. Giving a player a second or so to set themselves up to execute a handball or kick is unreasonable (this is why so many players actually throw the ball in and around stoppages these days because they're worried about umpires giving them no time to dispose of the ball correctly before being called for prior opportunity).

As usual we always overcorrect, remember a few years back when the umps were allowing players to be spun 360 degrees or more and still not ping them for prior opportunity.

 

[GoBlues!]

Razor also said the Evans one they got wrong …doesn’t excuse the loss but geez they were crucial decisions

Same here Monty, made no difference to the result.

I can accept 50:50 calls, but umpiring decisions like Hewett’s have to be called out and umpires need to understand what prior opportunity is and isn’t.

 

[Dramoth]

Razor Ray on 360 showing clearly that both holding the balls against Hewett and Evans were wrong.

If Razor Ray is saying it's wrong, it is really ****ing wrong. The umpire who made so many shitting decisions reckons they were wrong... that's just ****ed.