Analysis Umpires

Thrall · Jul 4, 2020

thylacine60 said:
does everyone else know you have all the answers? or just the kids at your bounce club?

The best umpires we have had have been ex players. You never notice them, they understand the game and know how to get in the best positions to make the right decisions.

Have a look at the type of gimp that becomes an umpire, if you want a laugh go look them up and check their photos lol.

How can someone umpire something they have never played?

ps, do you need to throw a personal insult into every comment you make when you are discussing things? I'd be happy to put my intelligence, looks, social status up against yours and have a good laugh. I don't sit there attacking people though I prefer to discuss opinions

thylacine60 · Jul 4, 2020

Old Carltonian said:
The best umpires we have had have been ex players. You never notice them, they understand the game and know how to get in the best positions to make the right decisions.

Have a look at the type of gimp that becomes an umpire, if you want a laugh go look them up and check their photos lol.

How can someone umpire something they have never played?

I'm trying to find a more incorrect statement in the history of BigFooty. Will you be around tomorrow?

Jabba73 · Jul 4, 2020

Old Carltonian said:
The best umpires we have had have been ex players. You never notice them, they understand the game and know how to get in the best positions to make the right decisions.

Have a look at the type of gimp that becomes an umpire, if you want a laugh go look them up and check their photos lol.

How can someone umpire something they have never played?

ps, do you need to throw a personal insult into every comment you make when you are discussing things? I'd be happy to put my intelligence, looks, social status up against yours and have a good laugh. I don't sit there attacking people though I prefer to discuss opinions

At AFL level, David Rodan goes alright. Jordan Bannister was adequate and Leigh Fisher needs to be kept away from St Kilda games at a minimum.

Not sure any former players have translated to top level umpires effectively yet.

Thrall · Jul 4, 2020

Jabba73 said:
At AFL level, David Rodan goes alright. Jordan Bannister was adequate and Leigh Fisher needs to be kept away from St Kilda games at a minimum.

Not sure any former players have translated to top level umpires effectively yet.

I never heard anyone complaining about Bannister or Fisher, there have been almost 100 ex afl / vfl players that became umpires.

Jabba73 · Jul 4, 2020

Old Carltonian said:
I never heard anyone complaining about Bannister or Fisher, there have been almost 100 ex afl / vfl players that became umpires.

The outcry after the 13-0 free kicks in the Blues/Saints game in their favour recently, nearly melted the game day thread.

There was plenty of complaining, not just from Carlton fans. Was noted on the TV coverage as well.

thylacine60 · Jul 4, 2020

Another myth.

Jabba73 · Jul 4, 2020

Struggling to remember other players who made it at AFL level as an umpire.

Any hints?

Thrall · Jul 4, 2020

Jabba73 said:
Struggling to remember other players who made it at AFL level as an umpire.

Any hints?

	As player	As umpire
Player / Umpire	Years	Matches	Years	Matches
Albert Allen(Rich.)	1912	2	1915-21	2
Roy Allen (Coll.)	1924	2	1931-1953	214
Jordan Bannister (Ess./Carl.)	2001-09	67	2012-16	95
Thomas Bates (Ess.)	1933	1	1939-43	13
‘Tammy’ Beauchamp (Fitz.)	1899-1908	135	1909	12
John W. Beckwith (Fitz.)	1918	1	1928-29	22
Vic Belcher (SM)	1907-20	226	1921-30	17
Albert Bickford (Melb./Carl.)	1906-09	11	1921	1
William Blair (Geel.)	1935	2	1940-45	41
Max Blumfield (SM)	1943-46	21	1951-54	37
Robert Boyle (Carl.)	1904-06	36	1907-17	74
William Bremner (Melb.)	1903-04	23	1910-12	21
William Briscoe (Rich.)	1915	26	1926-29	51
Charles Canet (Carl.)	1916-21	80	1931	7
Vernon Carkeek (Coll.)	1915-16	3	1922	1
Etienne Chapman (Carl.)	1897-98	25	1902-13	160
William Coffey (Ess.)	1918	1	1926-29	33
Edward Collins (St.K.)	1913-21	78	1922-30	8
Robert Corbett (Melb.)	1920-29	161	1931-33	40
Thomas Craven (Geel.)	1915-24	90	1931	2
Charles Curtis (Carl.)	1898-1900	21	1910	3
David J. Davidson (SM / Melb.)	1898-1900	18	1906	1
William Davies (Ess.)	1905-09	76	1912-27	205
Laurence Delaney (St.K.)	1901	2	1915-18	9
Edward Drohan (Fitz. / Coll.)	1898-1908	173	1909	17
Herbert Dummett (Coll.)	1909-11	4	1927-45	264
Percy Ellingsen (Rich. / Melb. / Gee.)	1912-19	45	1931-33	53
Leigh Fisher (St.K.)	2003-08	55	2013-19	135
Charles Foletta (Fitz.)	1899	5	1913-15	31
Mark Fraser (Coll./Ess.)	1992-2000	110	2005	5
Richard Gibson (SM)	1897-98	29	1899-1909	105
Alfred George Green (Coll.)	1903-08	76	1910-20	60
Jim Gregory(Coll.)	1897-1901	42	1908-11	31
William Griffiths (Fitz./SM)	1903-04	17	1911-13	20
Edward H. Hall (St.K)	1897-1903	80	1900	1
Charlie Hammond (Carl.)	1906-18	154	1921	11
Henry Hardiman (NM)	1935-38	6	1944-48	69
George Hastings (Ess.)	1897-1903	106	1905-10	84
Clarence Hearn (Ess.)	1929-35	92	1937	12
Neville Heffernan (NM)	1929-30	6	1931-35	67
Hugh Heron (Ess. / Fitz.)	1912-13	12	1914-26	120
Arthur Hiskins (SM)	1908-23	185	1930-33	52
Ernest Jenkins (Fitz.)	1897-1910	182	1920-27	133
Harold F. Johnston (NM)	1925-27	37	1930	5
Percy Jory (St.K)	1912-1920	60	1925-42	128
Patrick Kennedy (St.K.)	1918-21	11	1925-31	76
Harold Lampe (SM)	1899-1907	135	1909	7
Phillip Lane (Fitz.)	1932	1	1943-46	26
William Leeds (Carl.)	1903-05	27	1904	5
Michael Madden (Ess.)	1903-06	65	1923-29	93


William McNamara (Carl.)	1899-1904	69	1905-15	104
Keith Millar (Rich.)	1924-30	37	1936	3
Rowland Millen (Fitz.)	1913-23	117	1929	1
Michael Minahan (SM / St.K.)	1897-1900	29	1902-15	172
Jack Monohan (Coll.)	1897-1907	171	1913-26	181
William Moxham (SM)	1907-09	29	1913-19	25
Alex Mutch (Coll.)	1911-21	144	1923-27	46
Wally Naismith (Fitz./Melb.)	1902-12	178	1915-28	215
Howard Okey (Ess.)	1928-34	109	1936	9
John O’Loughlin (Gee. / St.K.)	1898-1902	25	1904-10	91
William Orchard (Gee.)	1906-15	112	1923-26	14
Albert Pannam (Coll.)	1907-09	28	1914-21	12
G.V. ‘Mick’ Pleass (SM / Ess.)	1897-1904	113	1902	2


Henry Rowe (Melb.)	1945-46	2	1951-55	16
George Sandford (St.K)	1901-02	11	1904-13	83
Edward Sanneman (St.K.)	1922-31	72	1936-41	43
Ernest Schunke (Rich.)	1909	6	1904	11
Miles Sellers (Haw.)	1925-34	98	1944-52	131
James Shand (Rich.)	1916-19	40	1930	4
George ‘Yorkie’ Shaw (Fitz.)	1911-20	117	1923	2
Edward Shorten (NM/Ess.)	1925-26	11	1930-49	156
Frederick Sigmont (SM)	1897	6	1908-15	108
James Smith (St.K)	1899-1908	127	1907-10	35
Albert Streckfuss (SM)	1909-1910	18	1921-30	110
George Threlfall (Rich.)	1919-24	8	1929-31	22
George Topping (Carl.)	1902-16	125	1913	3
‘Lardie’ Tulloch (Coll.)	1897-1904	132	1905-11	77
Fred Turnbull (St.K.)	1918	1	1923	1
William Twomey (Coll./Haw.)	1918-34	64	1933	3
Richard Vernon (Coll.)	1909-11	51	1912	4
Herbert Wregg (Melb.)

[TD valign="top"] Vincent Maguire (Geel.) [/TD][TD valign="top"]

1915-18

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

43

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

1923-24

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

7

[/TD]

[TD valign="top"] Richard McKay (Fitz. / St.K.) [/TD][TD valign="top"]

1897-1903

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

96

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

1915-23

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

88

[/TD]
[TD valign="top"] Les Reynolds (St.K) [/TD][TD valign="top"]

1922-24

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

30

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

1929

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

3

[/TD]

[TD valign="top"] David Rodan (Rich./PA/Melb.) [/TD][TD valign="top"]

2002-13

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

185

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

2017-19

[/TD][TD valign="top"]

27

[/TD]

Thrall · Jul 4, 2020

Mark Fraser the most recent apart from jordy and fisher

thylacine60 · Jul 4, 2020

Um, your quoting stuff from 100 years ago? Where does it say these umpires were "the best"?

Jabba73 · Jul 4, 2020

Old Carltonian said:
As player
As umpire
Player / Umpire
Years
Matches
Years
Matches
Albert Allen(Rich.)
1912
2
1915-21
2
Roy Allen (Coll.)
1924
2
1931-1953
214
Jordan Bannister (Ess./Carl.)
2001-09
67
2012-16
95
Thomas Bates (Ess.)
1933
1
1939-43
13
‘Tammy’ Beauchamp (Fitz.)
1899-1908
135
1909
12
John W. Beckwith (Fitz.)
1918
1
1928-29
22
Vic Belcher (SM)
1907-20
226
1921-30
17
Albert Bickford (Melb./Carl.)
1906-09
11
1921
1
William Blair (Geel.)
1935
2
1940-45
41
Max Blumfield (SM)
1943-46
21
1951-54
37
Robert Boyle (Carl.)
1904-06
36
1907-17
74
William Bremner (Melb.)
1903-04
23
1910-12
21
William Briscoe (Rich.)
1915
26
1926-29
51
Charles Canet (Carl.)
1916-21
80
1931
7
Vernon Carkeek (Coll.)
1915-16
3
1922
1
Etienne Chapman (Carl.)
1897-98
25
1902-13
160
William Coffey (Ess.)
1918
1
1926-29
33
Edward Collins (St.K.)
1913-21
78
1922-30
8
Robert Corbett (Melb.)
1920-29
161
1931-33
40
Thomas Craven (Geel.)
1915-24
90
1931
2
Charles Curtis (Carl.)
1898-1900
21
1910
3
David J. Davidson (SM / Melb.)
1898-1900
18
1906
1
William Davies (Ess.)
1905-09
76
1912-27
205
Laurence Delaney (St.K.)
1901
2
1915-18
9
Edward Drohan (Fitz. / Coll.)
1898-1908
173
1909
17
Herbert Dummett (Coll.)
1909-11
4
1927-45
264
Percy Ellingsen (Rich. / Melb. / Gee.)
1912-19
45
1931-33
53
Leigh Fisher (St.K.)
2003-08
55
2013-19
135
Charles Foletta (Fitz.)
1899
5
1913-15
31
Mark Fraser (Coll./Ess.)
1992-2000
110
2005
5
Richard Gibson (SM)
1897-98
29
1899-1909
105
Alfred George Green (Coll.)
1903-08
76
1910-20
60
Jim Gregory(Coll.)
1897-1901
42
1908-11
31
William Griffiths (Fitz./SM)
1903-04
17
1911-13
20
Edward H. Hall (St.K)
1897-1903
80
1900
1
Charlie Hammond (Carl.)
1906-18
154
1921
11
Henry Hardiman (NM)
1935-38
6
1944-48
69
George Hastings (Ess.)
1897-1903
106
1905-10
84
Clarence Hearn (Ess.)
1929-35
92
1937
12
Neville Heffernan (NM)
1929-30
6
1931-35
67
Hugh Heron (Ess. / Fitz.)
1912-13
12
1914-26
120
Arthur Hiskins (SM)
1908-23
185
1930-33
52
Ernest Jenkins (Fitz.)
1897-1910
182
1920-27
133
Harold F. Johnston (NM)
1925-27
37
1930
5
Percy Jory (St.K)
1912-1920
60
1925-42
128
Patrick Kennedy (St.K.)
1918-21
11
1925-31
76
Harold Lampe (SM)
1899-1907
135
1909
7
Phillip Lane (Fitz.)
1932
1
1943-46
26
William Leeds (Carl.)
1903-05
27
1904
5
Michael Madden (Ess.)
1903-06
65
1923-29
93
William McNamara (Carl.)
1899-1904
69
1905-15
104
Keith Millar (Rich.)
1924-30
37
1936
3
Rowland Millen (Fitz.)
1913-23
117
1929
1
Michael Minahan (SM / St.K.)
1897-1900
29
1902-15
172
Jack Monohan (Coll.)
1897-1907
171
1913-26
181
William Moxham (SM)
1907-09
29
1913-19
25
Alex Mutch (Coll.)
1911-21
144
1923-27
46
Wally Naismith (Fitz./Melb.)
1902-12
178
1915-28
215
Howard Okey (Ess.)
1928-34
109
1936
9
John O’Loughlin (Gee. / St.K.)
1898-1902
25
1904-10
91
William Orchard (Gee.)
1906-15
112
1923-26
14
Albert Pannam (Coll.)
1907-09
28
1914-21
12
G.V. ‘Mick’ Pleass (SM / Ess.)
1897-1904
113
1902
2
Henry Rowe (Melb.)
1945-46
2
1951-55
16
George Sandford (St.K)
1901-02
11
1904-13
83
Edward Sanneman (St.K.)
1922-31
72
1936-41
43
Ernest Schunke (Rich.)
1909
6
1904
11
Miles Sellers (Haw.)
1925-34
98
1944-52
131
James Shand (Rich.)
1916-19
40
1930
4
George ‘Yorkie’ Shaw (Fitz.)
1911-20
117
1923
2
Edward Shorten (NM/Ess.)
1925-26
11
1930-49
156
Frederick Sigmont (SM)
1897
6
1908-15
108
James Smith (St.K)
1899-1908
127
1907-10
35
Albert Streckfuss (SM)
1909-1910
18
1921-30
110
George Threlfall (Rich.)
1919-24
8
1929-31
22
George Topping (Carl.)
1902-16
125
1913
3
‘Lardie’ Tulloch (Coll.)
1897-1904
132
1905-11
77
Fred Turnbull (St.K.)
1918
1
1923
1
William Twomey (Coll./Haw.)
1918-34
64
1933
3
Richard Vernon (Coll.)
1909-11
51
1912
4
Herbert Wregg (Melb.)
[TD valign="top"] Vincent Maguire (Geel.) [/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
1915-18
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
43
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
1923-24
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
7
[/TD]

[TD valign="top"] Richard McKay (Fitz. / St.K.) [/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
1897-1903
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
96
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
1915-23
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
88
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"] Les Reynolds (St.K) [/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
1922-24
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
30
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
1929
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
3
[/TD]

[TD valign="top"] David Rodan (Rich./PA/Melb.) [/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
2002-13
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
185
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
2017-19
[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]
27
[/TD]

Apart from the 3 mentioned, only Fraser with 5 games has represented former players as an umpire in my lifetime.

Not an impressive record

Jabba73 · Jul 5, 2020

thylacine60 said:
Um, your quoting stuff from 100 years ago? Where does it say these umpires were "the best"?

You might remember, rest of us ... no chance

thylacine60 · Jul 5, 2020

Completely irrelevant statistics. Table requires another column headed "% supporters content with performance".

thylacine60 · Jul 5, 2020

Old Carltonian said:
The best umpires we have had have been ex players. You never notice them, they understand the game and know how to get in the best positions to make the right decisions.

Have a look at the type of gimp that becomes an umpire, if you want a laugh go look them up and check their photos lol.

How can someone umpire something they have never played?

ps, do you need to throw a personal insult into every comment you make when you are discussing things? I'd be happy to put my intelligence, looks, social status up against yours and have a good laugh. I don't sit there attacking people though I prefer to discuss opinions

But umpires are gimps go have a look for a laugh?

Wickzki · Jul 5, 2020

Arr0w said:
Rigged? Sounds like fine cotton Wick

If a game was rigged it would have come out, beneficiaries exposed

Beneficiaries are the AFL.

They wanted Fitzroy dead and did everything in their power to make it happen.

Ensuring the result of games would rank extremely low on the things they did to end that club.

Wickzki · Jul 5, 2020

Arr0w said:
Further on this, you do realise the free kick count was 39 to 38 right?

If the game was supposedly rigged, umpires did a really poor job of trying to get the Crows over the line

It's not necessarily the free kick count but where and when free kicks are paid.

If you have an equal free kick count but one team has had a significant percentage result in shots on goals while the other team has gotten them on the defensive side of the ground I'd argue that that's more significant than the even count.

Also remember this is when out on the full free kicks counted in the free kick statistics.

Wickzki · Jul 5, 2020

I'm still trying to work out how Fisher got the Saints Vs Carlton game last year.

Even more so how he retained his position after staking claim on the record for single game greatest free kick differential between clubs (15 to his former Saints versus 3 to Carlton).

But I digress. Nope, not rigged. Didn't play a factor in the result of the game. /s

thylacine60 · Jul 5, 2020

wick, the day I believe the game is rigged is the day I walk away from it - what are you doing following a sport you believe is corrupt? you may as well go and watch lance armstrong in the tour down under and cheer him on - makes no sense to me.........

blue healer · Jul 5, 2020

Jabba73 said:
Apart from the 3 mentioned, only Fraser with 5 games has represented former players as an umpire in my lifetime.

Not an impressive record

Reckon I've got a few years on you but no others in mine either.

Gethelred · Jul 5, 2020

Old Carltonian said:
The standard of umpiring is sh*t house. I really think it should only be open to ex state league and afl players. Pay them a serious wage and make it full time.

I'm sorry, but posts like that perpetuate the problem rather than fixing it.

You want better umpires? The road there is via getting more people wanting to become an umpire; more people to choose from, more variety in umpiring skills. Your post derides those that want to become an umpire first, and confines those who can become umpires second.

People don't like authority here. We don't like police, we don't like government, and we don't like umpires. We have colossal societal problems because we don't accept authority. We treat umpires consistently poorly, we insult them, we attack them. In one of my junior comps years back, some dickheads cornered an ump after the game; he got away because he was faster than they were.

Your perspective here is repellant. Reconsider it, please.

Gethelred · Jul 5, 2020

HARKER said:
You're right of course, but we haven't the ability to run the game through the millions of permutations across parallel universes.

Couldn't you just send me to the universe where we never lose, just for a month?

Aphrodite · Jul 5, 2020

KohPhi said:
They hate us..
AFL hate us..
Everyone hates us..
It's a giant conspiracy against the Navy Blues even though we've been sh*t for 20 years.

This is some of the funniest sh*t I've.read here in ages Veiny.. Nuffies.

They all hang out in SFA!

TheKITC · Jul 5, 2020

While we are here, does anyone else think the umpires need to be reigned in a bit in terms of their behaviour to players?

I get so ****ing mad when I hear Ray lecturing players and making himself part of the spectacle. The best umpires are the ones you don't notice and that's how it should be.

thylacine60 · Jul 5, 2020

I get narky when they explain the rules to players. "You can't run around or it's no score". Just shutup!

BlueJet · Jul 5, 2020

Are umpires inconsistent? Yep.
Is it something that our footy club can influence? not really.
Did the umpires decide any of our losses? No.

Is the level of effort from our side consistent? No.
is it something that our footy club can influence? Yep.
Is this responsible for our losses? Arguably, yes.

Of the two, the latter frustrates me a lot more than the former.

Log In or Create New Account

Ashes: 5th Test: Jan 4-8, SCGDay 5

Analysis Umpires

Team Captain

Post-Human

Hall of Famer

Team Captain

Hall of Famer

Post-Human

Hall of Famer

Team Captain

Team Captain

Post-Human

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

Post-Human

Post-Human

Definitely Sam MacLure.

Definitely Sam MacLure.

Definitely Sam MacLure.

Post-Human

Norm Smith Medallist

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Cancelled

Post-Human

Norm Smith Medallist

Analysis Umpires

Ashes: 5th Test: Jan 4-8, SCG
Day 5