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Analysis Umpires

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SurreyBlue said:
Looks like there is some sort of tactics being implemented to bully people into not raising concerns against or debate against cheating bias UMPIRES. Well luckily I won’t be silenced and I hope others won’t either so please carry on...........
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Gotta love posters, and you've been one of the worst at it, who throw allegations of cheating, bias, corruption at umpires and the AFL and the moment they face resistance, a different opinion, requests for evidence or any type of support for the adjudicators of the game, it's "oh, poor me, I'm being bullied, I'm being silenced!" This entire thread is for your mad conspiracy theories. Go hard or go home.
 
Magruder said:
It pains me to hear some say that the umpires have little influence on the result. Or indeed that it won't matter if "we do what we need." (As obviously it means we need to do more to get the result).

The major issue I have with a particular umpire, (Williamson), is not so much that the free kicks he gives against us are not there. They are free kicks if you look the incidents in isolation. The issue is that he makes decisions as if the incidents exist in isolation, that he has no obligation to interpret the rules in a consistent fashion.

A bias becomes apparent when some incidents resulting in frees given predominantly against one side are adjudicated in manner entirely separate to other incidents.

Call it unconscious, but I believe it is clearly observable in the last three Carlton games he has umpired, (Syd, Tiges and Cats).
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reposting this from the game thread because it seems more appropriate in this thread.
 
thylacine60 said:
Gotta love posters, and you've been one of the worst at it, who throw allegations of cheating, bias, corruption at umpires and the AFL and the moment they face resistance, a different opinion, requests for evidence or any type of support for the adjudicators of the game, it's "oh, poor me, I'm being bullied, I'm being silenced!" This entire thread is for your mad conspiracy theories. Go hard or go home.
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Williamson isn't "every umpire" - maybe adjust your narrative to fit the discussion. Your attempt at gaslighting the topic by inserting hyperbole is not ever going to work.

The discussion is about Williamson #22 and it is a recurring discussion based on collective experience from people who watch games and post on here.

Williamson pulls frees out of the 'rule book' but every free paid is also a judgment call - to many of his ' judgment calls' see Carlton on the wrong end too often. When this happens repeatedly in different games - people form views.

We don't have access to umpire stats - is he is an outlier compared to other umps for frees against Carlton - and even more interesting and harder to measure of course - is the open question - is he more likely than the average ump to not pay frees to Carlton?

These are the measures that lack of access to stats make difficult to 'prove'.
 

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Eleni not the worst umpire by miles, but we don't have many top notch umpires compared to yesteryear. At least she can bounce the ball (unlike Razor) and communicates in an un-smug manner. After reading the Hun article about the whole female umpiring fraternity, appreciate that she's got excuse the pun, bigger balls than most of the male umpires.
 
thylacine60 said:
Gotta love posters, and you've been one of the worst at it, who throw allegations of cheating, bias, corruption at umpires and the AFL and the moment they face resistance, a different opinion, requests for evidence or any type of support for the adjudicators of the game, it's "oh, poor me, I'm being bullied, I'm being silenced!" This entire thread is for your mad conspiracy theories. Go hard or go home.
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Plenty of examples by plenty of other posters in this thread alone illustrating all the above. If you want to ignore, not my issue.
 

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by Lisa, reporting for AFANA from ChicagoIn 1993, Greg Williams missed winning a third Brownlow Medal by one vote, losing to Essendon's Gavin Wanganeen. Incredibly, he did not poll a single vote in the Round 10 game that year, despite chalking up 44 possessions. All the votes went to his...
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GoBlues! said:
After 18 rounds we’ve received 385 free kicks and given away 331. Seems like overall we’re doing okay and one of top teams with a positive differential of 54.

I think teams with a positive free differential > 50 should get a bonus 8 points at the end of season (fair play bonus) 😀

Do we know how many For/Against frees Williamson has given to Carlton in the games he’s officiated this year?
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And each player receives deux brownlow voix
 

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JustaBattler said:
Williamson isn't "every umpire" - maybe adjust your narrative to fit the discussion. Your attempt at gaslighting the topic by inserting hyperbole is not ever going to work.

The discussion is about Williamson #22 and it is a recurring discussion based on collective experience from people who watch games and post on here.

Williamson pulls frees out of the 'rule book' but every free paid is also a judgment call - to many of his ' judgment calls' see Carlton on the wrong end too often. When this happens repeatedly in different games - people form views.

We don't have access to umpire stats - is he is an outlier compared to other umps for frees against Carlton - and even more interesting and harder to measure of course - is the open question - is he more likely than the average ump to not pay frees to Carlton?

These are the measures that lack of access to stats make difficult to 'prove'.
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This is why I've always been under the impression that we should not know their actual name.

By all means the AFL can celebrate the total games umpired, Grand Finals etc but in my opinion they should not be able to be singled out from the team of umpires individually by having numbers and names in the record or on the sites associated with the game.

I'm far from an umpire sympathizer but geez some of the rhetoric being pointed at one young man in particular including the petition to get him struck from adjudicating our games and some people thinking he deliberately umpires Carlton games/players differently to everyone else without his employer/AFL PA/Carlton Football Club holding him to account and taking immediate action to his so called deliberate actions "cheating" is farcical.

C'mon Carlton Supporters we're better than that... aren't we?
 
teagueyubeauty said:
There’s certainly no consistency when it comes to Williamson umpiring Carlton games and their opposition.

It’s as blatant as it comes
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I think it was the Hawks game or around then, but I recall Williamson awarded many soft frees to us in our forward half.

If there was some form of concerted effort to disadvantage us, it would not occur in a blatant manner nor would the club sit idle.

For all we know Williamson may be instructed to look for the soft but technical frees to keep clubs in check.

More likely though, this perception that he pays more soft or incorrect frees is simply wrong.
 
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Blue Warrior said:
This is why I've always been under the impression that we should not know their actual name.

By all means the AFL can celebrate the total games umpired, Grand Finals etc but in my opinion they should not be able to be singled out from the team of umpires individually by having numbers and names in the record or on the sites associated with the game.

I'm far from an umpire sympathizer but geez some of the rhetoric being pointed at one young man in particular including the petition to get him struck from adjudicating our games and some people thinking he deliberately umpires Carlton games/players differently to everyone else without his employer/AFL PA/Carlton Football Club holding him to account and taking immediate action to his so called deliberate actions "cheating" is farcical.

C'mon Carlton Supporters we're better than that... aren't we?
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I have said previously that apart from Eleni who stood out because she was teh first female ump in AFL - I don't know any other umps names or numbers and couldn't care less about them.

However I did find out #22's name and number after watching his umpiring of a few of our games - my observations are my observations. I am not an umpire basher if you have read any of my posts on teh topic - I am more sympathetic to the difficult job they all have and don't believe that in general they do too bad a job of it

Williamson? I have a different view on his performances in our games to date and so do many others it seems.
 
Blue Warrior - it’s observable behaviour.
didn’t say deliberate, just that Williamson is consistently inconsistent.

the number of highly technical free kicks that are paid against us seems to corelate to a high number of non-decisions for similar offences when we are infringed against.
 
Arr0w said:
I have read the opinions, but none of which I would consider factually conspired against us
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never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ineptitude.

conspiracy is a pretty high qualification to set.

most of us have an issue with one umpire and one only.

kinda eliminates the conspiracy angle.
 
JustaBattler said:
I have said previously that apart from Eleni who stood out because she was teh first female ump in AFL - I don't know any other umps names or numbers and couldn't care less about them.

However I did find out #22's name and number after watching his umpiring of a few of our games - my observations are my observations. I am not an umpire basher if you have read any of my posts on teh topic - I am more sympathetic to the difficult job they all have and don't believe that in general they do too bad a job of it

Williamson? I have a different view on his performances in our games to date and so do many others it seems.
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Like I've always said everyone is entitled to their own opinions, observations and beliefs.


But when it comes to accusations of adjudicating differently for/against our club by a specific umpire in my opinion we are heading into nuffie territory, because even though it's a game the financial ramifications with betting and the like mean that umpiring decisions are more scrutinized/analyzed than ever before and if found with actual undisputable evidence to be unfairly umpiring for/against certain teams they would be held to account by the clubs,the AFL and betting agencies alike and would not be able to umpire Auskick let alone AFL again if such accusations deemed to be true.

So I'm pretty sure if #22 or any other umpire was doing this they would be heavily investigated and penalized.
 

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Magruder said:
Blue Warrior - it’s observable behaviour.
didn’t say deliberate, just that Williamson is consistently inconsistent.

the number of highly technical free kicks that are paid against us seems to corelate to a high number of non-decisions for similar offences when we are infringed against.
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And like I've said before they are accountable and analyzed so if he keeps getting his interpretations adjudged incorrect and his employer finds him to be incompetent well he'll be umpiring the lower grades sooner than later one would think.
 
Blue Warrior said:
Like I've always said everyone is entitled to their own opinions, observations and beliefs.


But when it comes to accusations of adjudicating differently for/against our club by a specific umpire in my opinion we are heading into nuffie territory, because even though it's a game the financial ramifications with betting and the like mean that umpiring decisions are more scrutinized/analyzed than ever before and if found with actual undisputable evidence to be unfairly umpiring for/against certain teams they would be held to account by the clubs,the AFL and betting agencies alike and would not be able to umpire Auskick let alone AFL again if such accusations deemed to be true.

So I'm pretty sure if #22 or any other umpire was doing this they would be heavily investigated and penalized.
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Common sense will not be tolerated, go and sit in the naughty corner for 15 minutes!!
 
Blue Warrior said:
Like I've always said everyone is entitled to their own opinions, observations and beliefs.


But when it comes to accusations of adjudicating differently for/against our club by a specific umpire in my opinion we are heading into nuffie territory, because even though it's a game the financial ramifications with betting and the like mean that umpiring decisions are more scrutinized/analyzed than ever before and if found with actual undisputable evidence to be unfairly umpiring for/against certain teams they would be held to account by the clubs,the AFL and betting agencies alike and would not be able to umpire Auskick let alone AFL again if such accusations deemed to be true.

So I'm pretty sure if #22 or any other umpire was doing this they would be heavily investigated and penalized.
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I'm not accusing anyone of anything - I am simply agreeing with those who think Williamson is inconsistent in the application of his own rulings and consistently not applying the standards his expects of Carlton players to those of the opposition.

All that bolded stuff is rehashed and off topic as far as the discussion about #22 goes.
 
JustaBattler said:
I'm not accusing anyone of anything - I am simply agreeing with those who think Williamson is inconsistent in the application of his own rulings and consistently not applying the standards his expects of Carlton players to those of the opposition.

All that bolded stuff is rehashed and off topic as far as the discussion about #22 goes.
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So he is possibly incompetent at his job but not actually biased against us and favorable to other teams would be my assumption.

As for the rest of my post it is very relevant as all umpires are analyzed on their performance every game and held accountable so if there was even a hint of one of them being biased/adjudicating differently towards certain teams they would be getting a please explain from the AFL.

My question is to people who think umpires or a certain umpire in particular is umpiring differently against Carlton and favorably towards other teams.

Is...

If Carlton felt aggrieved surely they would be complaining directly to the AFL or the Umpiring department and putting in an official complaint against that particular umpire especially if they suspected him to be blatantly biased would they not?

Yet we have heard nothing about this or anything official from the club.

Anyway that's me done looking out for those in yellow/green or whatever colour they want them to wear just blame them all evenly like I do every week . ;)
 
JustaBattler said:
Williamson isn't "every umpire" - maybe adjust your narrative to fit the discussion. Your attempt at gaslighting the topic by inserting hyperbole is not ever going to work.

The discussion is about Williamson #22 and it is a recurring discussion based on collective experience from people who watch games and post on here.

Williamson pulls frees out of the 'rule book' but every free paid is also a judgment call - to many of his ' judgment calls' see Carlton on the wrong end too often. When this happens repeatedly in different games - people form views.

We don't have access to umpire stats - is he is an outlier compared to other umps for frees against Carlton - and even more interesting and harder to measure of course - is the open question - is he more likely than the average ump to not pay frees to Carlton?

These are the measures that lack of access to stats make difficult to 'prove'.
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You also need to consider frees that he doesn’t pay.

I was sitting in the front row right in front of a boundary throw in…Williamson was only a few metres away and closer to play than I was. Cripps was getting a scragged and had his head ripped off. Williamson could not have been in a better situation and was looking straight at Cripps, yet decided to do nothing.
 

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