Analysis Umpires

[Franc de Borges]

These are unprecedented times, none of us have ever seen/experienced this

But Carlton should always be five goals up just in case we cop some egregious decisions at the end.

Everyone should have a financial buffer just in case there’s a global financial crisis.

Neither can say they didn’t see it coming as these things have happened before.

You can’t control everything and unfair external factors do have an impact.

 

[Arr0w]

But Carlton should always be five goals up just in case we cop some egregious decisions at the end.

Everyone should have a financial buffer just in case there’s a global financial crisis.

Neither can say they didn’t see it coming as these things have happened before.

You can’t control everything and unfair external factors do have an impact.

Franc, I know you are trying to convince me to change how I see this, but using murders and now covid is not even in the same ballpark

Once sides are on the field, your upbringing, financial disposition has no bearing on a result. It's about talent, continuity, mindset, execution etc, etc

Umpires make judgment errors, for and against both parties, but not to the same frequency as 40 odd players. Successful, flag winning sides also are on the end of suspect decisions

 

[slashin_velvet]

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[JustaBattler]

yeah I've never seen Hodge walk off the field with his arms over umps shoulder or cracking jokes with them at the end of quarters..nope never...umps in AFL are totally unbiased always. Cripps is a dumb umpire manager and he is costing us. he should be pulling 5 frees a game at least and instead has managed to be mostly ignored by umps - that is on him and the coach.

Ou players seem to be intimidated by umps instead of seeing them as potential allies and friends - AFL is a weird game the people who run the thing actually encourage banter between ump and players aa familiarity that would be detestable and detested in games like Rugby.

 

[Gethelred]

Here's an alternate outcome had Townsend kicked that goal.

That's mental.

 

[thylacine60]

I’m watching a Bulldogs v North game from 1998. Standard of umpiring and from the players is so much better...

interesting when there is nothing at stake - your team isn't playing.........

 

[thylacine60]

So if a game is perfectly umpired, then with 10 seconds to go with scores level, there’s a ridiculous free kick and 50m paid in the middle, that decision has no impact on the result?

absolutely - got the footage?

 

[thylacine60]

They have coaches who would speak to them at each break.

if that's true and I have no idea if it is, what would they say to them and how often would they be saying it? ie change the way you are interpreting rules?

 

[thylacine60]

Thought the holding the ball decisions were much fairer last night in Essendon v Collingwood match than in our match on Thursday night v St Kilda.

Memo to umpires, if the player has no prior opportunity and is trying to break free from the tackle, it is not holding the ball.

Concentrate instead on players who take the ball and let themselves get tackled who make no attempt to get rid of it.

do you really need me to tell you how different you are going to see things when your own club is playing and you are willing every umpiring decision to go your way?

 

[thylacine60]

So if a couple have been happily married for 25 years, then the husband snaps and murders his wife, it’s wrong to call him a murderer and blame him for ending the marriage? You’ve got to take the 25 year marriage in its entirety, and for most of it he was a great guy.

that's plain stupid

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

interesting when there is nothing at stake - your team isn't playing.........

Absolutely

 

[Jabba73]

someone posted last night we are 18th on the ladder for tackles and pressure acts. Is it any wonder we struggle to get free kicks?

If HTB decisions are never given against the opposition, you can go a full season without registering a tackle statistic.

 

[WFGodot]

This is a dynamic game played on a huge ground with no off-side rule and 36 particiants all typically within 80-90 metres of the ball.
Its almost impossible to umpire this game and it is made worse by constant tinkering and knee-jerk rule changes. For example, Nominating ruckman; why was this an issue to begin with? Prior opportunity; players can know accept contact with an arm held and go to ground without attempting to dispose of it, in fact, you ARE PENALISED if you try!!! Whats going on?
One guy gets a broken leg because another guy slides in with his feet and now if you bravely enter a contest head first and make contact wit an opponent below the knees it is a free kick against you??? Who decides on this stuff? (rhetorical)
I get frustrated because even when the decision is "technically correct" it fails the sniff test.
I know there is no malice or blatant bias but it needs time to settle with one set of rules to be entrenched otherwise it becomes ridiculous and hopelessly inconsistent. IMHO.

 

[Gethelred]

Okay, let's talk about tackle statistics.

The AFL defines a tackle thus:

Using physical contact to prevent an opponent in possession of the ball from getting an effective disposal.

This definition is taken from https://www.afl.com.au/news/144837/stats-glossary-every-stat-explained

Is this an acceptable definition for a tackle? You could make an argument that a bump in the right conditions applies; you could argue that corralling applies if done forcibly enough; you could argue that a tackle that begins well before the player takes possession applies.

 

[HARKER]

Just on the point of umpires and any possible change in umpiring after half time -

Wouldn't the umpires themselves have a chat about how they're going?
Isn't it possible that one/two umpires may not be happy with the general umpiring and point this out?

What do we think happens at half time? The umpires seperate from each other and no dialogue takes place?
The players/leaders/coaches have a conversation about how they're tracking and how they could do things better - So why not the umpires?

 

[Earls Smother]

Should never get to the final act and you don't see that

What a strange comment.

Go back and count the number of games in AFL history that have been decided by less than a goal. Sometimes teams are so evenly matched, that no matter how hard they try, and how well they execute in the first 119 minutes, they are still deadlocked.

Any action from that point on can determine the result - a great mark, a desperate smother, a snap from the boundary AND an umpiring decision.

 

[Arr0w]

Just on the point of umpires and any possible change in umpiring after half time -

Wouldn't the umpires themselves have a chat about how they're going?
Isn't it possible that one/two umpires may not be happy with the general umpiring and point this out?

What do we think happens at half time? The umpires seperate from each other and no dialogue takes place?
The players/leaders/coaches have a conversation about how they're tracking and how they could do things better - So why not the umpires?

Isn't that would should happen though?

 

[GapInIkonPark]

do you really need me to tell you how different you are going to see things when your own club is playing and you are willing every umpiring decision to go your way?

No.

So Aphrodite didn’t remove you from this thread.

 

[Arr0w]

What a strange comment.

Go back and count the number of games in AFL history that have been decided by less than a goal. Sometimes teams are so evenly matched, that no matter how hard they try, and how well they execute in the first 119 minutes, they are still deadlocked.

Any action from that point on can determine the result - a great mark, a desperate smother, a snap from the boundary AND an umpiring decision.

Never once suggested teams won't go to the death of a kick between win and loss

Still I say, even in the last 2 minutes of a game that is tight, how many human errors compared to unwarranted umpire decisions?

Against the saints, there were over 190 turnovers and clangers from both sides ( we were the main culprit)

37 frees were paid, let's say 4 were howlers and or non decisions

You really think umpiring errors determine a winner and loser?

 

[HARKER]

Isn't that would should happen though?

You'd think so. I thought I saw arguments to the contrary. Maybe not..

Of course umpires talk and should keep each other accountable through the course of the game. It's not an easy job.

 

[Earls Smother]

Never once suggested teams won't go to the death of a kick between win and loss

Still I say, even in the last 2 minutes of a game that is tight, how many human errors compared to unwarranted umpire decisions?

Against the saints, there were over 190 turnovers and clangers from both sides ( we were the main culprit)

37 frees were paid, let's say 4 were howlers and or non decisions

You really think umpiring errors determine a winner and loser?

You have a habit of twisting things to suit your own agenda.

Of course in the majority of games they are simply a part of the numerous acts that add up to an end result.

The premise of the debate over recent pages has been - have they ever, or can they ever, influence the result with a late poor decision or non-decision.

What if Leo Barry's mark had been taken off him, because one of three sets of eyes had seen Kennelly hold Sampi out of the contest? 4 points down, seconds left. The result of that match hinged on what the umpires saw (or not) and what they paid (or not). FWIW I think we all want to see the mark be the relevant factor in determining the result.

This debate has arisen because there have been some poor/odd/new rule? decisions paid in the last quarter of recent games that COULD have influenced the result. Thankfully it appears so far, that the "right" side has still won.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Worst umpiring I have seen so far this year.
I knew this would happen after Clarko said his piece.

“Rule of the week” Eddie everywhere described it as...

If we were first to the ball the decisions would have been for us not against us


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How do you explain Ed getting gang tackles just after he received it and got called holding .. umpire said "no genuine effort Ed .."

 

[Franc de Borges]

that's plain stupid

Why?

 

[Arr0w]

You have a habit of twisting things to suit your own agenda.

Of course in the majority of games they are simply a part of the numerous acts that add up to an end result.

The premise of the debate over recent pages has been - have they ever, or can they ever, influence the result with a late poor decision or non-decision.

What if Leo Barry's mark had been taken off him, because one of three sets of eyes had seen Kennelly hold Sampi out of the contest? 4 points down, seconds left. The result of that match hinged on what the umpires saw (or not) and what they paid (or not). FWIW I think we all want to see the mark be the relevant factor in determining the result.

This debate has arisen because there have been some poor/odd/new rule? decisions paid in the last quarter of recent games that COULD have influenced the result. Thankfully it appears so far, that the "right" side has still won.

Will let that first sentence pass through to the keeper

I have never changed my opinion or my debating factors

1. An umpire has never been the deciding factor in a result

2. There are countless other acts that influence a game, yet seem to be forgotten, for more recent events, ( Case in point, the Barry mark)

Even if that game between the Roys and Crows was decided by the umpires, what was that, more than 2 decades ago? Yet other stats suggest, that it wasn't rigged or umpires cheated


Your last paragraph, basing it on "COULD", is still an opinion and as you have stated, still hasn't happened. So why debate it if you agree?

The umpire bashing, blaming is bordering on delusional and pathetic

 

[AB_Blue]

How do you explain Ed getting gang tackles just after he received it and got called holding .. umpire said "no genuine effort Ed .."

Yes there was some dogey calls that went the way of the saints.
However some of the 50/50 ones would have gone our way if we had first use of the footy

Particularly in the first half


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