Umpires

[mtffafl]

What can be done about them?

After watching football this year, I have noticed that the standard of umpiring has dropped further (something I didn't think possible after last year).

The AFL really needs to do something about it. And they need to start at the top.

First, remove all the grey areas within the rules, because there aren't any umpires intelligent enough to use discretion.

For example, a new rule should be that anyone who places their hands on an opponents back has a free kick awarded against them. If they wish to hold them out in a contest, they should do it with their body like they are meant to.

Once the rules have changed, they should sack half the current umpires (just pick the worst).

Then, when they recruit for new umpires, they should make it a rule that the umpires must have played senior football (at any level). Because it is clearly evident that the umpires that have actually played umpire the game a lot better.

Maybe this isn't the answer, but grey rule areas (in the back, holding/dropping the ball etc.) must be amended.

And something has to be done, the game is becoming a bigger disgrace every year (but still the greatest, and most passionate sport on earth).

Matt

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Start with umpire McLaren!

I honestly don't know which game he was watching tonight. Neither I nor those around me could understand any of his decisions, both for and against us. Obviously I was watching from a biased point of view, but I was really baffled over ~90% of the frees he awarded.

 

[steve]

I watched a few matches this weekend on the TV. Not actually going to the footy. None of the teams I watched were my team, they weren't on TV, thats another matter.
The thing with umpires is their is 3 of them. 3 different interpretations.Cut them to 2.
Some of these umpires continually in one match make bewildering decisions, against the one team. I have noticed this over a few years.
I agree about Mc Laren, his decisions were plain bad.
The Collingwood match was the same. To be honest they were extremely lucky to win.Frees in front of goals resulting in 2 goals, because of umpiring blatant ,mistakes.

 

[Lenny]

Do you think the AFL commissioners would be happy Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton loseless 2 games into the season, 2000 more free should see them into the finals.

 

[Pessimistic]

Spot on steve, nothing is worse than completely different interpretations of the same issue (usually holding the man/holding the ball) at different ends of the ground. Changing ends should even it up but sometimes it occurs when the game is in the balance, and one team gets confidence from it. Even if your team is the beneficiary somehow it doesn't feel right.

Ideally you'd have the same umpire making all the decisions but perhaps he can't get from end to end. but definately reduce to two field umpires. Have more boundary umpires if need be

I heard that inability to bounce the ball rules out many umpires with good decision skills. Why not have a permanent ball bouncer ? He bounces the ball and nothing else That way bounces would be more consistent and the real umpire would be able to watch during bounces for infringements

And why oh why is a defender allowed to hang onto a forward ? It should be penalised every time. To even up, forwards taking a 'dive' (you guys are right about matthew lloyd by the way) should be penalised also - acting up is the worst scourge in soccer these days

 

[staggy]

i've just got two words to say on this topic:

JOHN HARVEY.

he's an absolute disgrace and should be booted out - come on jeff!!

by the way matt, i like your ideas for rule changes, but making it a requirement to have played senior footy poses two problems:

-you are immediately discriminating against those who have not played senior footy - you don’t have to have played senior footy to have an intimate knowledge of the rules and excluding those who haven't played senior footy is actually unfair – all applicants should be considered on their merits.

-by only accepting hosse who have played senior footy, you are asking people to make a choice b/w playing the game they love (whether it be the afl or the menagatang thirds….) and umpiring – and you may get a lack of applicants as a result. You may also get an older bunch of umpires than before…because many may wait until they are finished playing....will these umpies be able to keep up with the game??

just a few thoughts
cheers
staggy

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2000: year of the bomber

 

[-TotalFooty2000-]

MTTAFFL, you said: 'Then, when they recruit for new umpires, they should make it a rule that the umpires must have played senior football (at any level).'
1. I'm not gonna stick up for the umpires or anything here. I am simply outlining the steps to become an AFL umpire in Victoria.
2. I am a boundary umpire. That is irreleveant in this forum.
3. As a fan, I cringe at decisions that go against my team.

Umpires must be extremely fit. Even if they have played senior footy (at any level), to become an AFL umpire, they have to: start in a local league, work themselves into the VFL academy, then VFL Under 18's, VFL Reserves (I think this still exists for the previous VFL clubs), then the VFL and obviouly the AFL. It is very hard just to make the VFL, some umpires have had enough once they reach the VFL.

You also said: 'Because it is clearly evident that the umpires that have actually played umpire the game a lot better.' This I am not denying, but only because I don't know any umpires who have played senior footy.
I don't know what the AFL and Jeff Gieschen can do to improve the current situation. There is no incentive to become an AFL umpire. Everyone hates you from the start, and even more if you make a blatant mistake in front of goal. Field umpires only receive $1200 per game, boundaries $800-1000, and goal umpires probably $600-800. I am not sure on these figures, but they are not far off the mark.
The problem: they pay soft free kicks; and aren't in the correct position to judge on certain decisions near the boundary line.
Andrew McLeod's mark (?) yesterday was a blatant example, and I'm not just saying that cos I am a Pie fan. Even when I got home I couldn't work out what the decision was.

So basically I am on the fence. I don't know how to solve the problem.

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http://go.to/totalfooty2000
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[Justice]

I agree with all, except Pess. Why should players who dive be penalised for umpiring stupidity? Yes it is frustrating, but how could you enforce such a law? Everyone whinges about Lloyd receiving free kicks for diving (BTW he received 3 free kicks on the weekend, from which he kicked 2 goals and one was no sitter), but it is far less then the ones he doesn't receive which he should. This is the case with all fowards. Fowards are the least protected players in the game. The third umpire was supposed to eradicate this.

 

[Don]

Mclaren I take it he is the balding one in West Coast vs Sydney - had an absolute shocker - it annoys me umpires giving 50s for a little bit of abuse to me thats part of footy - didn't they use Mcenroe to promote it only a couple of years ago.

 

[mtffafl]

I understand your point about the umpires having played games. But I do know that several of them have...

But those that have played the game understand the fundamentals a lot better, and their decision making is better.

It obviously isn't the answer, and there probably isn't an answer.

Because last year John Russo still managed to make blatant mistakes while commentating, after watching it on slow motion (and full speed) replay several times.

Some are just born thick.

he was the second worst umpire of all time. The only one worse was Cameron.

I still remember that wonderful day at Vic park, when the entire crowd was chanting all together in full voice 'Cameron is a w***er' after one goal was kicked, and for several minutes.

Pure poetry!!!

Matt

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

The problems with the umpiring are very serious indeed.

I think it is the one thing that is truly wrong with the game and stops the game being enjoyed on a wider scale.

I talk to lots of people up here in NSW, people who have followed Rugby, people from overseas who follow Soccer, even Americans who love their gridiron and they all seem to say the same thing -

"great game - but I can't understand the umpiring"

Same goes for the rest of us !

How to fix ? - heres a couple of suggestions

1) Tidy up the rules
So many rules are open to subjective interpretation and the AFL is bringing in ever more silly rules that make it even harder for the umpires for example deliberate out of bounds has got to be the stupidest rule going around. When is it deliberately put out of bounds ? almost all the time really but the trick is to disguise your intentions so that it does not 'look' like it - how dumb is that ?

2) Properly enforce the rules

My pet hate is the carrying the ball rule. I think it is 15 metres ? - Get that umpires 15 metres is 15 metres, not 20 and not 35 as I have seen time and time again. I remember the Swans v Bulldogs game last season, Sure the Swans were terrible in sqaundering a big early lead and deserved to lose but rember the goal by the Bulldogs to take the lead ? - The Bulldogs player ran at least 40 metres down the middle of ground before kicking the goal. 35,000 spectators at the ground could see he ran too far but do you think the umpire saw it that way ? This is one rule that is clear and un-ambiguous for gods sake enforce that way.

3) Umpiring standards should be open to scrutiny

Lets get rid of this ridiculous 'cone of silence' that prevents coaches from criticising the umpires. Make no mistake umpires are paid well for what they do, so why are they not subject to the same criticism as others ? I think its stupid that a coach can be fined for criticising an umpiring decision, even when the same decision may have cost a club the game.

Look there is just so much at stake in footy games these days, its tragic that a game can be decided on one stupid umpiring decision and the consequences are serious - a coach could lose his job, a player have their career ruined or a club could end up losing money by the bucket load and yet what happens to the umpire in question ? - absolutely nothing, in fact he will more than likely be running around the very next week making the same mistakes and having a great time while he is at it. Which brings me to

4) Punish bad umpiring (and do it publicly)

The AFL should have a 'shame list' of bad umpires who are banished to local leagues untill they get their act together and lift their game. The AFL should not only do this but be seen to do this as well. This system works well in the Rugby League where if a referee has a bad day then everyone knows about it.

I know it is part of football culture to get out there and scream blue-murder at the umpires but really, the rules of the game and their nonsensical interpretation by the umpires themselves make our game an amateurish laughing stock in the eyes of the other football codes.

 

[Pessimistic]

$1200 or $400 is not bad money for basically a day's work (how many hours do they do in a week) plus some bullshit.
Not that they don't deserve it, but average Joes on $1200 a week think they're slightly favoured

 

[The Dutchman!]

Lenny

Free kick count on the weekend...

Richmond 21
Essendon 11

Can't speak for Carlton or Collingwood but we don't need help from the martians to beat Richmond or to go top.

Get your fact rights.
Dutch

 

[-TotalFooty2000-]

Pessimistic,
They do at least one and probably two days of training, just like the clubs. I think they train at Waverley.
Compare their weekly salary to the lowest-paid AFL players contract ($100,000 a year?), and the players would come out in front by at least $10,000.
Having Jeff Gieschen as a 'coach' spokesmen is a joke. They must get a former umpire for that job.
Before too long, there must be a video umpire introduced into the AFL.
There should be 2 field umpires surrounding the current passage of play at all times I reckon, one on the boundary side of play, one in the centre corridor. Then have the other umpire further down the ground. The 'third of the ground' system sucks.

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http://go.to/totalfooty2000
http://members.xoom.com/Total_Footy

 

[mtffafl]

After listening to commentators and former umpires after they see a replay, and seeing them still blatantly make incorrect decisions (Ian Robertson especially, I would say he is the worst and most ignorant commentator ever from television/radio or even that call of the wild from the channel 7 show 4 quarters or whatever it was approx 4 years ago.)

A video umpire won't help, because they'll still make incorrect decisions.

Matt

 

[Umpire]

I'm a Goal Umpire.

I think before some of you guys start
harshly (and most of the time un-just)
abusing umpires, you actually need to get out there and see what it is like.

Imagine this - Carlton v Collingwood, MCG,
90,000 screaming, yelling fans. Buckley
takes a dodgy mark, SOS gets the ball and
kicks down-field. The umpire has about 1/2
a second to make a decision.

Have a go and you'll see it's not so easy.

Umpire. http://sua.cjb.net/

 

[Grendel]

And five years on...

 

[sedders]

.... people dont know the rules so whinge about the umpires

 

[scottywiper]

we've always had bad umpiring, but never before has it been as influential.Bulldogs, St Kilda and Sydney have all paid the price.
It's very disappointing.