MRP / Trib. Umpiring, MRO, Tribunal, Rule Changes - 50m penalties for raising arms?

[Yoda_]

AFL isn’t mature enough to hear facts. That why we’ll never see players miss weeks for staging even though they are trying to eradicate it from the game.

If the AFL was fair dinkum the fine would have been substantial for Dylan to think about his actions and second guess how easy he goes down next time.

$750 for a bloke likely on $400,000+ (+ match payments) ?

Less than 2% of his salary. He don’t give a s**t about $750. Fine him $10,000 and he’ll start to think teoce


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[HirdsTheWord]

AFL isn’t mature enough to hear facts. That why we’ll never see players miss weeks for staging even though they are trying to eradicate it from the game.

If the AFL was fair dinkum the fine would have been substantial for Dylan to think about his actions and second guess how easy he goes down next time.

$750 for a bloke likely on $400,000+ (+ match payments) ?

Less than 2% of his salary. He don’t give a sh*t about $750. Fine him $10,000 and he’ll start to think teoce


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the same thing as punching, the AFL wanted to get rid of it totally because it is rampant in junior footy.

they started off hard on it now they give you a $500 fine for it.

its a ******* joke.

 

[Andronicus]

the same thing as punching, the AFL wanted to get rid of it totally because it is rampant in junior footy.

they started off hard on it now they give you a $500 fine for it.

its a ******* joke.

That depends entirely on who is punching, and who is being punched.

 

[Andronicus]

Which thread?

 

[Lore]

AFL isn’t mature enough to hear facts. That why we’ll never see players miss weeks for staging even though they are trying to eradicate it from the game.

If the AFL was fair dinkum the fine would have been substantial for Dylan to think about his actions and second guess how easy he goes down next time.

$750 for a bloke likely on $400,000+ (+ match payments) ?

Less than 2% of his salary. He don’t give a sh*t about $750. Fine him $10,000 and he’ll start to think teoce


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As I pointed out on the previous page, it's not normally $750. Players aren't getting paid ~$400k this year, they're not paying ~$1500 fines either. Everything is halved.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Fines (both in football and life) really should be tied to income.

 

[Lore]

The funny thing about striking is that it is both a classifiable offence and a fixed financial sanction. The financial sanction is "for striking actions with insufficient impact to constitute a Classifiable Offence".

Tom Lynch was fined under both options last week against the Suns. He got a second offence Fixed Financial Sanction for striking Witts, and a first offence Classifiable Offence graded as intentional low impact to the body (another fine).


This week, the Striking offence against Hurley isn't noted as being a Fixed Financial Sanction type strike, so I guess he must be looking at the classification structure?

Under that, it would presumably be classed as intentional, which means that he's almost definitely going to be suspended:



Being that it's high contact, the only way he gets out with a fine is if it goes through as careless with low impact and high contact, which as a second offence with no early guilty plea is 5k in an ordinary season. 2.5k this year because of covid.

 

[DERO]

It is a lettuce leaf approach.

 

[Howard Moon]

At the end of the day this staging crap is a storm in a tea cup, if the umpires don't pay the dumb free it dosent get this far and nobody cares. They have created the monster of staging by rewarding it for too long. It's on them to fix it. Open your bloody eyes , we can all see a flop and we are 100m further away than you, if not the main ump, surely one of the other 3 can have input, overrule him if it's wrong

 

[HirdsTheWord]

At the end of the day this staging crap is a storm in a tea cup, if the umpires don't pay the dumb free it dosent get this far and nobody cares. They have created the monster of staging by rewarding it for too long. It's on them to fix it. Open your bloody eyes , we can all see a flop and we are 100m further away than you, if not the main ump, surely one of the other 3 can have input, overrule him if it's wrong

I don’t think we can blame ups every time. They have a split second to make the decision.

It’s on the AFL to making staging a minimum 1 week ban. That will sort it quickly and easily. Clearly players don’t give a single s**t about reputational damage and a 500 dollar fine.

 

[Maxabillions]

What?

Grimes and Vlastuin were charged for staging, not striking.

Grimes got more because he is a repeat offender.

my bad, meant staging

 

[cAsEy_18]

I definitely think the problem is the AFL wants to make it as 'black and white' as possible, which is leading to players discovering little 'tricks' as to how to win a free kick/avoid giving one away (Gone out of it a little bit, but it was only 12-18 months ago that "diving on it" got ridiculous with opposition players literally holding the ball underneath the player, resulting in holding the ball - still present today, but not as frequent).

The annoying thing for us, which might be bias coming in, is:
1) I'm not sure if our guys don't notice these trends, but we constantly get pinged for them (even when it looks ridiculous, its the little games and trends that the umpiring department seems to have at that point in time) and we don't do it to opposition teams.
2) There are times, plenty of times, we don't receive a free kick, and based on first glance and using "common sense" it's probably a fair call - but this logic is not applied consistently.

Example A: See Rampe climbing the goal-post last year...'common sense' might say give him a warning and tell him to get down. Letter of the law? It's a free kick.
Example B: Anyone who watched St. Kilda v Brisbane today - first quarter, Butler getting pushed well after the mark, and instead of a 50m penalty, told to get up (basically implied diving).
Now I don't mind that decision in isolation. But we do seem to frequently get the raw end of the deal - that Butler one for example would be a near certainty to be called 50m against us, and we'd have no grounds for complaints, with opposition fans saying "that's just stupid, why do it?"

So, as I see it, we have 2 choices:
1) Hope the umpiring department decide to start using 'common sense' and logic to making their decisions (Ha)
or
2) For our boys to learn the tricks, watch other teams, watch the way umpires are officiating, and actually take advantage of that and use it to our advantage.

(I think both are equally unlikely).

 

[dougyboy]

They have created the monster of staging by rewarding it for too long. It's on them to fix it. Open your bloody eyes

And that's the problem. They imagine they see something they did not witness it. Pay what you see, not what you imagine happened. if you weren't in the right place to see. --- "Play On"

 

[eth-dog]

I've refereed a couple of different sports before. Mostly in tae kwon do. When you're not the centre ref, you're usually a corner judge, who is in charge of scoring.

They instruct us to not pay points unless we see the foot hit the body or head protector. We don't.

 

[MiguelM]

TBH, I don't think there was much wrong with the Lynch contact with Hurley. More of a push IMO.

Hurley put a bit of mayo on the incident too.

 

[dougyboy]

 

[Lore]

TBH, I don't think there was much wrong with the Lynch contact with Hurley. More of a push IMO.

Hurley put a bit of mayo on the incident too.

Match Review: Lynch sent to Tribunal, two Tigers fined for staging, Power star banned

The Match Review Officer has released his findings from Saturday's games, including 14 charges across four games

www.afl.com.au

The clip is in the player at the top, you can rock it back and forth. Clear swinging round arm action with a closed fist, and makes contact with Hurley's neck.

 

[yaco55]

Howard Moon is spot on. We don't need to discuss staging or fines if the umpires do their jobs properly - I'll also add social media threats to players SHOULD be separately discussed and not conflated with issues of striking or diving.

 

[citizen-erased]

It's probably a bit hard for some players to make a stand against it when it's players within the leadership group at their club doing it

Howard Moon is spot on. We don't need to discuss staging or fines if the umpires do their jobs properly - I'll also add social media threats to players SHOULD be separately discussed and not conflated with issues of striking or diving.

perhaps the answer is for the umpires to call only what they see and let things go that happen out of their line of sight

I'll take 10 missed frees over 1 being paid that isn't correct.

 

[Yoda_]

As I pointed out on the previous page, it's not normally $750. Players aren't getting paid ~$400k this year, they're not paying ~$1500 fines either. Everything is halved.

Apply relevant % of a players salary to relevant penalty


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[Yoda_]

perhaps the answer is for the umpires to call only what they see and let things go that happen out of their line of sight

I'll take 10 missed frees over 1 being paid that isn't correct.

I watch ALOT sport and the very best officials are the ones who let the game go and not over officiate


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[owen87]

We seem to get the short end of the stick with these things;

Rampe and Sydney last year; cost us a win (that we didn't deserve)

Ward and GWS cost us a win (that we didn't deserve, nor did they).

Grimes & Vlaustin likely cost us a win (that we didn't deserve).

All these cases have undoubtedly had an impact upon the outcome of the game, and thus the premiership points and season.

If the AFL want to get serious about stamping it out, they need to do a lot more than a $1,000 fine.

Soccer is a farce the way the players dive and fall over, and the AFL needs to be very clear about stopping that kind of behaviour. Umpires shouldn't pay it, but if they do, and a player is later found to have taken a dive, or staged, there needs to be a severe enough penalty that they'll never do it again.

 

[boncer34]

It's not just the umpires imo, it's also the way that the AFL treats umpires with kid gloves. They don't earn any respect by pretending they have no professional standards to uphold.

They should be reviewing decisions after the game and saying yes this was the right interpretation, no that one wasn't. It will help the public discourse to have the public, including media personalities, actually knowing what a correct decision looks like. Hell, put an umpire type as a special comments during a game so they can provide live feedback on what is and isn't correct. Or have someone on AFL payroll reporting from the score review hub. Something... pls


And they should absolutely fine players for staging. I think that was a good call from Jordan Lewis on Fox last night. Heck, fine the clubs as well.

There are a few reasons why this wouldn't work but here's the main 2.

1) Umpiring is already a s**t job. Nobody wants to turn about and be abused non stop for 2 hours, but they do. Increasing the public "your wrong" aspect doesn't make it any more enjoyable and will narrow your recruitment pool.

2) Commentators are morons. You get idiots like BT bellowing "Just throw it up umpire" 10 times a game despite EVERYONE knowing umpires have to ask a ruck to nominate. Having someone provide live feedback to those buffons that a decision was wrong opens all sorts of worm cans.

 

[jmoo wan]

There are a few reasons why this wouldn't work but here's the main 2.

1) Umpiring is already a sh*t job. Nobody wants to turn about and be abused non stop for 2 hours, but they do. Increasing the public "your wrong" aspect doesn't make it any more enjoyable and will narrow your recruitment pool.

2) Commentators are morons. You get idiots like BT bellowing "Just throw it up umpire" 10 times a game despite EVERYONE knowing umpires have to ask a ruck to nominate. Having someone provide live feedback to those buffons that a decision was wrong opens all sorts of worm cans.

i like the idea of an umpire co-commentating and pointing out every time BT is wrong. that would be a lot of fun!

 

[boncer34]

i like the idea of an umpire co-commentating and pointing out every time BT is wrong. that would be a lot of fun!

Pass. He screams over the top of enough people.