MRP / Trib. Umpiring, MRO, Tribunal, Rule Changes - 50m penalties for raising arms?

[JayJ20]

People will whinge and moan, but any contentious free kick that impacts the scoreboard (eg free kicks inside 50) should be reviewed.

With the Ward free, the umpire closest to the contest called play on. It was the central umpire that overturned his decision. That should be reviewed.

Same thing with the Grimes free kick. Before overturning the goal, it should be reviewed. Any staging should automatically be called play on.
If a goal was scored, then the goal stands. If nothing was scored, then it's a ball up.

 

[boncer34]

People will whinge and moan, but any contentious free kick that impacts the scoreboard (eg free kicks inside 50) should be reviewed.

With the Ward free, the umpire closest to the contest called play on. It was the central umpire that overturned his decision. That should be reviewed.

Same thing with the Grimes free kick. Before overturning the goal, it should be reviewed. Any staging should automatically be called play on.
If a goal was scored, then the goal stands. If nothing was scored, then it's a ball up.

As in.... reviewed during the game?

 

[Squeaky]

How salty are these Richmond folk?

Anyone would think they lost.

Morally - they did.

 

[Mercurial89]

There are a few reasons why this wouldn't work but here's the main 2.

1) Umpiring is already a sh*t job. Nobody wants to turn about and be abused non stop for 2 hours, but they do. Increasing the public "your wrong" aspect doesn't make it any more enjoyable and will narrow your recruitment pool.

2) Commentators are morons. You get idiots like BT bellowing "Just throw it up umpire" 10 times a game despite EVERYONE knowing umpires have to ask a ruck to nominate. Having someone provide live feedback to those buffons that a decision was wrong opens all sorts of worm cans.

I think this is largely the issue in the game. The football public are largely idiots, and they are being educated on the game by what they see on TV, who are largely uneducated in the rules of the game.

If you want to change views you need to change the source for a majority of opinions.

If the AFL was serious they would apply some pressure to the producers of their product.
I know the AFL cant control media, but the situation at the moment is you have someone like Hodge or Bartel who are an absolute library of football information giving special comments that may actually provide some insight and they are cut off or ignored by the main commentators who start talking about the crowd, or the funny way someone runs or a funny sounding name and how they can make it more "entertaining".

I get that sometimes people want umpiring mistakes called out by people i agree that we cant do it now, but we could get to a position where that could occur where we could stand there and say ok this is wrong IF there was enough commentary and education on when the umpire gets it right. Speak through decisions, explain when something is correct but may be seen as incorrect. Then you can get to a point where a quick, yep umpire got that wrong but in real time it would have been hard.

Instead we get the weekends game which consisted of - non stop camera shots and commentary on Dusty trying to stay cool, shots of the crowd while the game was going on, we missed several throw ins due to it. At one stage the ball was called for deliberate and the commentators were too busy chatting and then caught up with the play and said it must have been out on the full.
The issue is the commentators have tried to create a product when they should be enhancing the game (you know the actual product). Now two diving frees which were bad are now dominating the AFL talking points, when they should just be noted as errors, player gets slammed for staging and we move on. But because there is rarely any admission of error, or there is hesitancy in admitting error the football public goes harder every time, which makes it harder to admit error which makes the public worse. You need to break the cycle and the easiest way to do that is through education.

Then you cut down your average people who are angry and you are just left with the minority of loons on the internet which we really need to learn to ignore.

Increase the knowledge that is actually communicated to the public through your commentary and you can then start to change the way people speak about things.

 

[JayJ20]

As in.... reviewed during the game?

Yep. Similar to the VAR in soccer.
Accuracy is more valuable than the flow of play. Umpires receive the most hate for decisions that influence the scoreboard.

 

[boncer34]

Yep. Similar to the VAR in soccer.
Accuracy is more valuable than the flow of play. Umpires receive the most hate for decisions that influence the scoreboard.

Very bold statement.

Not sure how I feel about it but I like your confidence.

 

[Mercurial89]

Yep. Similar to the VAR in soccer.
Accuracy is more valuable than the flow of play. Umpires receive the most hate for decisions that influence the scoreboard.

NFL thought something similar. reviewing pass interference, and has now been dismissed as an absolute disaster after one season.

Accuracy is important but the more you push to be perfect in adjudicating and controlling a game, the worse the product becomes.

Educate your public, communicate the rules of the game well and with time everyone can be adult enough to speak about errors and correct decisions. But the education and communication has to be put in place, you cannot expect emotional ignorant people to be rational.

 

[jmoo wan]

Pass. He screams over the top of enough people.

oh there’d be a mute button involved.

 

[boncer34]

Mercurial89 that point re: deliberate vs OOF is a brilliant example.

 

[JayJ20]

NFL thought something similar. reviewing pass interference, and has now been dismissed as an absolute disaster after one season.

Accuracy is important but the more you push to be perfect in adjudicating and controlling a game, the worse the product becomes.

Educate your public, communicate the rules of the game well and with time everyone can be adult enough to speak about errors and correct decisions. But the education and communication has to be put in place, you cannot expect emotional ignorant people to be rational.

The product is already bad. Umpiring is at its worst and coaches play an incredibly defensive brand. I don't believe the VAR is controlling the game. It's ensuring accuracy.

People were similarly critical of the goal review system (which had its flaws), but the edge technology introduced has made the product 10x better. You don't hear criticism about goal review anymore because it makes sense. It's now an accepted part of our game. We had so many goals/behinds rightfully overturned within game because of the review. Imagine still talking about goal errors senselessly after the game?

The AFL may not be able to control the brand of football the coaches choose to employ, but they can improve the quality of their umpiring and accuracy should 100% be the AFL's priority. It's up to the coaches to play a more attractive brand of football.

 

[JayJ20]

Unfortunately I don't trust the current state of umpiring or the AFL. It's easy to say that education and communication is key, but how many controversial calls are there every week? Can we trust that the right call will be made? Can we trust that the AFL will communicate the error? No.

Admission of mistakes from the AFL is contentious because it can involve money (eg betting). If the AFL admit to mistakes, then legal problems may arise from it. So they ignore it for the sake of simplicity and saving face.

The Freo-Carlton game is another good example. What business did Newnes have kicking for goal? A review would have at least identified that Gibbons should be taking the free kick.

No harm in having someone review the decision before someone takes the free kick inside 50. The game has already stopped anyway.

 

[citizen-erased]

I watch ALOT sport and the very best officials are the ones who let the game go and not over officiate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

must admit, ive come to struggle with AFL because of it
Maybe it's age....much like when it comes to music, though i suspect i'm right there as well and modern music is thin, insipid and mostly terrible...but the game needs some tweaks in officiating.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Match Review: Lynch sent to Tribunal, two Tigers fined for staging, Power star banned

The Match Review Officer has released his findings from Saturday's games, including 14 charges across four games

www.afl.com.au

The clip is in the player at the top, you can rock it back and forth. Clear swinging round arm action with a closed fist, and makes contact with Hurley's neck.

View attachment 943515

yes lynch hit his neck. but come on. We all know Hurley put a little bit of Mayo on it. in saying that though Hurley was no way near a stage compared to the other two (Grimes + Valstuin)

We cant call out others and then not call out our own.

 

[astrowizzle]

At the end of the day this staging crap is a storm in a tea cup, if the umpires don't pay the dumb free it dosent get this far and nobody cares. They have created the monster of staging by rewarding it for too long. It's on them to fix it. Open your bloody eyes , we can all see a flop and we are 100m further away than you, if not the main ump, surely one of the other 3 can have input, overrule him if it's wrong

That would Mean admitting someone made a mistake

 

[Mr Bultitude]

Rampe and Sydney last year; cost us a win (that we didn't deserve)

Ward and GWS cost us a win (that we didn't deserve, nor did they).

Grimes & Vlaustin likely cost us a win (that we didn't deserve).

Respectfully, I don't buy into that "did/didn't deserve" nonsense. You either win or you lose, deserving has nothing to do with it. If you're the better team but a brainfade free costs you the win, stiff, don't break the rules. It's like when people were moaning for Leo to win an Oscar just because they felt "he deserved one", give me a spell!

Accuracy is more valuable than the flow of play.

ABSO****INGLUTELEY. When a decision like the Grimes push effects the outcome of the game, and leads to a goal being bloody revoked, you better believe I want accuracy, flow of the game the last thing on my mind. We have goal reviews now, we're happy to wait and see the result, how hard would it have been to take not even a minute to go over the footage and award the goal.

 

[dougyboy]

yes lynch hit his neck. but come on. We all know Hurley put a little bit of Mayo on it. in saying that though Hurley was no way near a stage compared to the other two (Grimes + Valstuin)

We cant call out others and then not call out our own.

Grimes cost Essendon more than the pizzy fine he gets - 12 pt turn around, players were running back to the centre after what they thought was a Tippa goal didnt setup, etc

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Grimes cost Essendon more than the pizzy fine he gets - 12 pt turn around, players were running back to the centre after what they thought was a Tippa goal didnt setup, etc

i know

don't forget Vlastuin (who also staged) also kicked a goal from his 50m penalty - in total an 18 point swing.

 

[owen87]

Respectfully, I don't buy into that "did/didn't deserve" nonsense. You either win or you lose, deserving has nothing to do with it. If you're the better team but a brainfade free costs you the win, stiff, don't break the rules. It's like when people were moaning for Leo to win an Oscar just because they felt "he deserved one", give me a spell!

Bad kicking is bad football, but let's be honest - Sydney last year and Richmond this year may well have been an EFC victory that was highway robbery given how we played.

GWS was just both teams being poor for 3/4 of the game and having a period of being less terrible.

All 3 games' results were almost undoubtedly directly impacted by the umpiring decisions however, was my point. This is real results, real gambling outcomes, real premiership points. This is more than "oh here's a $1000 fines you silly boys".

 

[Howard Moon]

Just to play devils advocate... We are just a very undisciplined team. We are forever hanging an arm out or punching balls away or knocking blokes late or wandering into zones. Or even niavely going in hard when we know the opponent will drop at the knees...

In isolation they are very small things that you shouldn't get punished for but as a part of a greater picture they add up, week after week after week. At the end of the day do enough undisciplined acts and one will cost you at a cruical stage and you'll be crying that little thing just cost us the game! It's always us!

Well it will be always us if we keep doing them 20 times a game

 

[Mr Bultitude]

Bad kicking is bad football, but let's be honest - Sydney last year and Richmond this year may well have been an EFC victory that was highway robbery given how we played.

GWS was just both teams being poor for 3/4 of the game and having a period of being less terrible.

All 3 games' results were almost undoubtedly directly impacted by the umpiring decisions however, was my point. This is real results, real gambling outcomes, real premiership points. This is more than "oh here's a $1000 fines you silly boys".

Absolutely. This is pure fantasy, but I'd love if the AFL had the cahones to come out and say "The finishing margin was two goals, at least two goals resulted in contentious decisions (not to mention a goal revoked), so the points will be split.

I guarantee you wouldn't see another player dive or stage again.

 

[Squeaky]

Absolutely. This is pure fantasy, but I'd love if the AFL had the cahones to come out and say "The finishing margin was two goals, at least two goals resulted in contentious decisions (not to mention a goal revoked), so the points will be split.

I guarantee you wouldn't see another player dive or stage again.

The AFL would be more worried that punters wouldn't bet again.

 

[Duckworth]

yes lynch hit his neck. but come on. We all know Hurley put a little bit of Mayo on it. in saying that though Hurley was no way near a stage compared to the other two (Grimes + Valstuin)

We cant call out others and then not call out our own.

Hurley threw his head back after being hit in the neck. Both tigers went flailing to the ground with far less contact.

 

[eth-dog]

yes lynch hit his neck. but come on. We all know Hurley put a little bit of Mayo on it. in saying that though Hurley was no way near a stage compared to the other two (Grimes + Valstuin)

We cant call out others and then not call out our own.

Have you ever been hit in the throat? I have. It hurts a lot

 

[Sockeye]

The whistle blows now and all the players turn to the umpire and are like WTF, whose free is it, ours or there's?

Watch some footage of games from the late 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's, and this hardly ever happened. The players would hear the whistle and they would know straight away whose free kick and what for, and not hesitate to move off in the direction of where the next kick will be going. Some will say, "but the game is faster now", but due to congestion and defensive structures I don't think it is that much quicker, and we now have 3 umpires. (Perhaps we could return to 2?)

Any way I think this indicates that ...
1. The AFL have stuffed around so much with the rules, mostly at the behest of TV companies, that the game is somewhat broken when it comes to officiating.
2. 3 central umpires on the ground at once is causing too much inconsistency.

All sports/games need clear rules in order to be played properly.
AFL at the moment is not.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Just to play devils advocate... We are just a very undisciplined team. We are forever hanging an arm out or punching balls away or knocking blokes late or wandering into zones. Or even niavely going in hard when we know the opponent will drop at the knees...

In isolation they are very small things that you shouldn't get punished for but as a part of a greater picture they add up, week after week after week. At the end of the day do enough undisciplined acts and one will cost you at a cruical stage and you'll be crying that little thing just cost us the game! It's always us!

Well it will be always us if we keep doing them 20 times a game

Yep. Combine that with the lack of bias with which umpires (consciously or otherwise) treat the elite players and top teams and you have your answer.