Umpiring this round.

[BoxMatrix]

Our best year ever from an umpiring perspective was 2011 and even THEN, we were 7th! So even with the "Premiers bonus" that happens each year, we only just broke into the Top 8 most looked after sides. Tumbled down to bottom 2 or 3 against in 2012 and since. It's not ill-discipline, it's definitely something more. It's happening way too often to be just a coincidence. I"m wondering if it's almost subconscious?

7th???? How come teams like Hawthorn get the armchair ride with the "Premiers bonus"? Even teams like Geelong and Richmond who are becoming more irrelevant are still getting free kicks even when they clearly drop the knees. What a joke.

Or, are the umpires coaches instructing the umps not to react too much to the crowd? Given we always have the biggest crowds, maybe they're actively trying to ignore our reactions? Which results in less frees than we'd normally get.

This is something I doubt. I remember we played West Coast at Subi last year. They led the free kicks at halftime 23-5. It's obvious that the home crowd influences the umpire. Remember reading an article that said, on average, West Coast receive 10.1 free kicks a game at Subi, while their opponents only average 5.1.

Why don't we get this sort of advantage with the big crowds we get? Why do sides like West Coast and Adelaide have this home crowd umipring advantage, yet we don't? Something is wrong here.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

So first Campbell admits Cloke should have had a few more frees, and then he goes on to say that they'll look into players ducking. So all in all, the umpires boss is effectively admitting the umpires dudded us hardcore against Richmond without actually saying the words.

 

[Jelly Bean]

But they only ping OUR players. That's the problem. The inconsistency when it comes to Collingwood is beyond a joke. Honestly, how does a team get 3 freee kicks in a HALF of football, with one of those quarters being one where we dominate.

Notice that in the 3rd quarter we actually got 5 free kicks (after 3 for the first half) and all of a sudden we were in front? Coincidence much? They even started paying us soft nothing frees in the last quarter when the game was over to even up the numbers. Disgraceful effort.

This post is top to bottom ridiculous.

You think they actually made a decision to award Collingwood free kicks that they knew weren't there just to even up the numbers...?

 

[Jelly Bean]

So first Campbell admits Cloke should have had a few more frees, and then he goes on to say that they'll look into players ducking. So all in all, the umpires boss is effectively admitting the umpires dudded us hardcore against Richmond without actually saying the words.

No, he said that two free kicks should have been paid to Cloke that weren't. He didn't say anything about whether there were free kicks against Richmond players that weren't paid, nor about whether there were free kicks paid to us that shouldn't have been.

And not sure how the plan to look into players ducking (a league-wide problem) means we an an individual club were duped...

Umpire bashing is so boring and not based in any reality.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

This post is top to bottom ridiculous.

You think they actually made a decision to award Collingwood free kicks that they knew weren't there just to even up the numbers...?

Yep. I apologise in advance for any offense, but I feel anyone who believes otherwise to be incredibly naive.

No, he said that two free kicks should have been paid to Cloke that weren't. He didn't say anything about whether there were free kicks against Richmond players that weren't paid, nor about whether there were free kicks paid to us that shouldn't have been.

And not sure how the plan to look into players ducking (a league-wide problem) means we an an individual club were duped...

Umpire bashing is so boring and not based in any reality.

The beauty of the umpiring situation is, that the stats back it up. For one reason or another, we're not looked after. It can't be a coincidence. Even when we were a top side we weren't really looked after. There's definitely something going on. Whether it's subconscious or conscious or not, I'm not 100% sure.

 

[ColinMochrie]

It was a disgrace this round in most, if not all matches. As much as I hate essendon they were robbed by the umpires.

You cannot say the sport isn't rigged or biased when you have these shitty "even the free kick count" moments. I will never forget the first final against Brisbane in 2003. The worst case I can remember.

And they even it up with non existent frees in the back line.

The other thing that irks me is the "10 minutes left in a close match" rule changes. Rules shouldn't change because of the situation in the match, or because it is finals. They should stay the same. Bring it back to one umpire so at least we won't have 3 different interpretations every match. And for ****s sake AFL make them full time!!

Expect cloke to get a shit tonne of frees now that bucks had a sook and the umpires agreed. Of course it will be at a nothing moment in a nothing match.

Rant over.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Yep. I apologise in advance for any offense, but I feel anyone who believes otherwise to be incredibly naive.



The beauty of the umpiring situation is, that the stats back it up. For one reason or another, we're not looked after. It can't be a coincidence. Even when we were a top side we weren't really looked after. There's definitely something going on. Whether it's subconscious or conscious or not, I'm not 100% sure.

In short, we play a contested style of football (probably more so than anyone else) and you will always give away a disproportionate amount of free kicks.

Our gameplan is one of ferocious tackling - probably more than any other team in the league. Our game requires we have a furious attack on the man, and are required to push the boundaries as much as possible. As a result, we often find ourselves crossing the line and giving away tackling free kicks.

Our ball movement plan into the forward line is of kicking long to contests, not hitting up players on the lead. As a result, almost all ball movement into the forwardline is to a contested arial contest. Cloke is a 'wrestler' type full forward who therefore will give away more than his fair share of free kicks.

What is naive is to think that umpires will (consciously or not) favour Collingwood's direct opponent eery week, despite all games being thoroughly reviewed by independant reviewers and metrics awarded to umpired based on how many free kicks they got right versus missed / got wrong (metrics that affect the personal performance assessment of the umpires and link most likely to remuneration, reward, and retention of position).

Why would an umpire 'cheat' in a game when he will get penalised for it during the week?

 

[shizzle]

For mine it's a part of the game that rarely bothers me, I just take it for granted we'll miss out on some we should get and we'll get some we shouldn't.

Obviously we would like to see it improve and see more consistency, I just think it's a waste of time to stress out about a part of the game that has been an issue for decades, and will continue to be.

 

[Old Spice]

But they only ping OUR players. That's the problem. The inconsistency when it comes to Collingwood is beyond a joke. Honestly, how does a team get 3 freee kicks in a HALF of football, with one of those quarters being one where we dominate.

Notice that in the 3rd quarter we actually got 5 free kicks (after 3 for the first half) and all of a sudden we were in front? Coincidence much? They even started paying us soft nothing frees in the last quarter when the game was over to even up the numbers. Disgraceful effort.

Umpire Schit always slays us.

Watching the replay, when Langdon had a 50 metre paid against him by Schit for overstepping the mark Langdon said you didn't warn me, Schit said 'you should know where the mark is'. Bull f*cking sh*t. Right through the game Schit kept calling us back not 1 metre but 2 and 5 metres. When does that ever happen? Richmond players crossed the mark all day long with no warnings from Schit nor 50 metre penalties.

On Cloke, while it's good they picked up two missed frees, what about Cloke getting pinged for a fend off? Martin does about 10 a game and is never pinged.

The effect of getting massacred by the umpires is that players second guess when going in for tackles or pressuring on the mark.

Schittest umpiring effort for some time.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Umpire Schit always slays us.

Watching the replay, when Langdon had a 50 metre paid against him by Schit for overstepping the mark Langdon said you didn't warn me, Schit said 'you should know where the mark is'. Bull f*cking sh*t. Right through the game Schit kept calling us back not 1 metre but 2 and 5 metres. When does that ever happen? Richmond players crossed the mark all day long with no warnings from Schit nor 50 metre penalties.

On Cloke, while it's good they picked up two missed frees, what about Cloke getting pinged for a fend off? Martin does about 10 a game and is never pinged.

The effect of getting massacred by the umpires is that players second guess when going in for tackles or pressuring on the mark.

Schittest umpiring effort for some time.

You know it's bad when the Umpires boss all but confirms it. He both acknowledged Cloke being crucified as well as suggesting they're going to look into the ducking and dropping that keeps happening. At least half of Richmond's head high frees were either ducking or dropping. Joke.

 

[Old Spice]

For mine it's a part of the game that rarely bothers me, I just take it for granted we'll miss out on some we should get and we'll get some we shouldn't.

Obviously we would like to see it improve and see more consistency, I just think it's a waste of time to stress out about a part of the game that has been an issue for decades, and will continue to be.

Generally I don't care either but I think individual umpire performances should certainly come under scrutiny when they are so appalling.

When it is highlighted, then the umpire(s) come under closer scrutiny next time because people are aware of what to look for.

 

[Old Spice]

It was a disgrace this round in most, if not all matches. As much as I hate essendon they were robbed by the umpires.

You cannot say the sport isn't rigged or biased when you have these shitty "even the free kick count" moments. I will never forget the first final against Brisbane in 2003. The worst case I can remember.

And they even it up with non existent frees in the back line.

The other thing that irks me is the "10 minutes left in a close match" rule changes. Rules shouldn't change because of the situation in the match, or because it is finals. They should stay the same. Bring it back to one umpire so at least we won't have 3 different interpretations every match. And for ****s sake AFL make them full time!!

Expect cloke to get a shit tonne of frees now that bucks had a sook and the umpires agreed. Of course it will be at a nothing moment in a nothing match.

Rant over.

That is right. Schit was giving us some useless compo frees late in the game to even up the ledger. His performance needs to be raked over with a fine tooth comb.

 

[Adam H]

You know it's bad when the Umpires boss all but confirms it. He both acknowledged Cloke being crucified as well as suggesting they're going to look into the ducking and dropping that keeps happening. At least half of Richmond's head high frees were either ducking or dropping. Joke.

Shpeshal Ed I agree with you that the umpires have an agenda to follow and this comes from above. The only game Carlton has won this season was the game before Micks record breaking game v Collingwood. StKilda jumped to the lead and had the game in hand. Next thing you know the free kick count is 23-6 Carltons way and they have control and win the game. Now watching the game live you could see the glaring difference in rulings from one team to the other. Now did the AFL get Carlton up in a bid to gee the Carlton v Collingwood game up a extra notch? I suggest yes.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Shpeshal Ed I agree with you that the umpires have an agenda to follow and this comes from above. The only game Carlton has won this season was the game before Micks record breaking game v Collingwood. StKilda jumped to the lead and had the game in hand. Next thing you know the free kick count is 23-6 Carltons way and they have control and win the game. Now watching the game live you could see the glaring difference in rulings from one team to the other. Now did the AFL get Carlton up in a bid to gee the Carlton v Collingwood game up a extra notch? I suggest yes.

I"m not normally a conspiracy theorist, but I honestly do believe some of them in relation to AFL. If you think about it, St.Kilda's 2015 isn't really affected by the loss to Carlton, but the AFL know that by Carlton going into the Collingwood game with a win, they can bump up the numbers and the ratings, which obviously in turn means more money.

No doubt stuff like this plays a part. If you REALLY want to put the tinfoil hat on, you could argue that's why Collingwood has such a long history of getting done by the umps. The AFL knows that Collingwood will be Collingwood regardless of what happens. We will always have one of the biggest supporter/member bases and will continue to draw crowds. So using us as the foil to give other sides a boost makes sense from a marketing/financial perspective. Last year, the same year Collingwood performed poorly and were given some horrible slots, the crowds were down on previous years.

So what do they do this year? Give Collingwood the easiest draw it's had in over 6 years with less shitty slots than in the past. Again, it all depends how tinfoil hat you wanna go with it.

 

[Old Spice]

http://www.afl.com.au/video/smart-r...08&eventType=pen50&seek=2232&videoQuality=med
look at this sh*t. the 50 metre penalty for supposedly going over the mark. he barley went 30cm over and with zero warning.

You can see (15:30) where Vickery marked it which was right on the border of the grass strip. As you say, 30cm over, whistle blown within 1 second, a 50 paid, then Schit says Langdon was 3 metres over and when Langdon said where was the warning, Schit says he warned Langdon, then changed his mind and said 'it doesn't matter, you know where the mark is'.

 

[Adam H]

I"m not normally a conspiracy theorist, but I honestly do believe some of them in relation to AFL. If you think about it, St.Kilda's 2015 isn't really affected by the loss to Carlton, but the AFL know that by Carlton going into the Collingwood game with a win, they can bump up the numbers and the ratings, which obviously in turn means more money.

No doubt stuff like this plays a part. If you REALLY want to put the tinfoil hat on, you could argue that's why Collingwood has such a long history of getting done by the umps. The AFL knows that Collingwood will be Collingwood regardless of what happens. We will always have one of the biggest supporter/member bases and will continue to draw crowds. So using us as the foil to give other sides a boost makes sense from a marketing/financial perspective. Last year, the same year Collingwood performed poorly and were given some horrible slots, the crowds were down on previous years.

So what do they do this year? Give Collingwood the easiest draw it's had in over 6 years with less shitty slots than in the past. Again, it all depends how tinfoil hat you wanna go with it.

On the flipside to that who is going to take note of StKilda or Western Bulldogs jumping up and down about unfair treatment. Remember the game StKilda v Collingwood when Margetts pinned Milne six times in a game. The last free against him when he pinned him against Harry O won Collingwood the game. Umpires come out say's yep that was a mistake and give us Margetts v West Coast the week later.

 

[danielnajdek]

You can see (15:30) where Vickery marked it which was right on the border of the grass strip. As you say, 30cm over, whistle blown within 1 second, a 50 paid, then Schit says Langdon was 3 metres over and when Langdon said where was the warning, Schit says he warned Langdon, then changed his mind and said 'it doesn't matter, you know where the mark is'.

If we get Schmidt again this week I'm not watching the game.

That guy is a ****ing cheat.

 

[Swooop]

Shpeshal Ed I agree with you that the umpires have an agenda to follow and this comes from above. The only game Carlton has won this season was the game before Micks record breaking game v Collingwood. StKilda jumped to the lead and had the game in hand. Next thing you know the free kick count is 23-6 Carltons way and they have control and win the game. Now watching the game live you could see the glaring difference in rulings from one team to the other. Now did the AFL get Carlton up in a bid to gee the Carlton v Collingwood game up a extra notch? I suggest yes.

I agree with you 100%

St Kilda were butchered that game. It was exceptionally biased umpiring, and I say that as a neutral. Can't stand either.

Jelly Bean will love this, but I have no doubt the reason for this was to help Carlton to get a win to help set up a block buster for the big clash for MM 715 the next week. I remember asking myself, what's going on here, this umpiring is bullshit, what's going on here, then it dawned.

The AFL run a business. It is extremely naive to believe they don't desire certain outcomes.
Tipping off Essendon? Purely to save their brand.

Also it is extremely naive to believe umpires don't have their liked and disliked teams and players- they're human beings not robots ffs.
Most kids grow up in Victoria hating Collingwood it's religion to do so.
They grow up and become umpires.
Yes they neutralise to to a large extent, of course they do.

But Schmidt is really struggling with it and really should self declare if he was any sort of bloke.

Schmidt also blatantly cheated against us in a game against the Dogs I recall a few years back, esp in the first qtr. where the frees count was 7-0 and they got multiple soft frees while Cloke was murdered at the other end.

The club needs to formally take this up with the AFL re Schmidt, he is hopelessly biased against us, has a completely skewed threshold of what frees to and against us and I'm afraid to say is a serial cheat.

And spare me the tiresome, naive crap counter views please because I CBF responding.

Obvious is obvious.

 

[Adam H]

I agree with you 100%

St Kilda were butchered that game. It was exceptionally biased umpiring, and I say that as a neutral. Can't stand either.

Jelly Bean will love this, but I have no doubt the reason for this was to help Carlton to get a win to help set up a block buster for the big clash for MM 715 the next week. I remember asking myself, what's going on here, this umpiring is bullshit, what's going on here, then it dawned.

The AFL run a business. It is extremely naive to believe they don't desire certain outcomes.
Tipping off Essendon? Purely to save their brand.

Also it is extremely naive to believe umpires don't have their liked and disliked teams and players- they're human beings not robots ffs.
Most kids grow up in Victoria hating Collingwood it's religion to do so.
They grow up and become umpires.
Yes they neutralise to to a large extent, of course they do.

But Schmidt is really struggling with it and really should self declare if he was any sort of bloke.

Schmidt also blatantly cheated against us in a game against the Dogs I recall a few years back, esp in the first qtr. where the frees count was 7-0 and they got multiple soft frees while Cloke was murdered at the other end.

The club needs to formally take this up with the AFL re Schmidt, he is hopelessly biased against us, has a completely skewed threshold of what frees to and against us and I'm afraid to say is a serial cheat.

And spare me the tiresome, naive crap counter views please because I CBF responding.

Obvious is obvious.

Have you watched Margetts do a West Coast or Freo game?

 

[Swooop]

Have you watched Margetts do a West Coast or Freo game?

Yeah I have.

I don't think WCE have lost a free kick count at home in the three years I've been noticing.

Average around the 26-14 type mark over the years, though I haven't watched the games - maybe all the frees were correct, lol.

 

[Old Spice]

I agree with you 100%

St Kilda were butchered that game. It was exceptionally biased umpiring, and I say that as a neutral. Can't stand either.

Jelly Bean will love this, but I have no doubt the reason for this was to help Carlton to get a win to help set up a block buster for the big clash for MM 715 the next week. I remember asking myself, what's going on here, this umpiring is bullshit, what's going on here, then it dawned.

The AFL run a business. It is extremely naive to believe they don't desire certain outcomes.
Tipping off Essendon? Purely to save their brand.

Also it is extremely naive to believe umpires don't have their liked and disliked teams and players- they're human beings not robots ffs.
Most kids grow up in Victoria hating Collingwood it's religion to do so.
They grow up and become umpires.
Yes they neutralise to to a large extent, of course they do.

But Schmidt is really struggling with it and really should self declare if he was any sort of bloke.

Schmidt also blatantly cheated against us in a game against the Dogs I recall a few years back, esp in the first qtr. where the frees count was 7-0 and they got multiple soft frees while Cloke was murdered at the other end.

The club needs to formally take this up with the AFL re Schmidt, he is hopelessly biased against us, has a completely skewed threshold of what frees to and against us and I'm afraid to say is a serial cheat.

And spare me the tiresome, naive crap counter views please because I CBF responding.

Obvious is obvious.

Super post this.

In general I like to have an honourable view on umpiring regarding mistakes because typically they are innocent omissions and complaining about decisions masks other problems in the team. But in this game, it was just an outrage, but more than that a continuation of form from Schmidt.

Chamberlain stands out because he loves to get his whistle out, but he is equally pedantic with all teams. Umpire Schmidt is at another level regarding us and stands out to me for this reason. I'd really like the club to start keeping score on this guy because he was totally over the top and not for the first time.

I'd like lukem to ask the club to start keeping score on umpires. If there was a 20-1 free kick count against but they were there, that's fine. But the torchlight needs to go on umpires just like it does on players. Start taking score and video recording decisions of umpires, we have the resources.

 

[Madagascar]

Hi guys what Collingwood games has this campaigner umpired this year?

 

[jjsmitty8]

It's not even the fact that I disagree with the free kicks we gave away. My biggest issue with umpiring is the ones they miss!

The free kick count doesn't always go in your favour, but it's frustrating when you feel like you've been adjudicated to a different interpretation of the rules.

I thought that most of the free kicks against Travis Cloke (apart from the debatable Rance one near the HFF) were probably there. But the ledger should have been balanced out by at least 2 or 3 that he was infringed upon and not rewarded. Especially when we see forwards like Hawkins use his strength in the exact same manner as Trav, and the Hawkins is allowed to play the man and the ball without being penalised. It seems that every contest Trav is engaged in, he is penalised purely for a show of strength and when it's his jumper being pulled on it gets missed more often than not.

 

[TradeDraft]

If we get Schmidt again this week I'm not watching the game.

That guy is a ******* cheat.

You would put money on the Oppostion as he would try his best to make sure we lose

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Super post this.

In general I like to have an honourable view on umpiring regarding mistakes because typically they are innocent omissions and complaining about decisions masks other problems in the team. But in this game, it was just an outrage, but more than that a continuation of form from Schmidt.

Chamberlain stands out because he loves to get his whistle out, but he is equally pedantic with all teams. Umpire Schmidt is at another level regarding us and stands out to me for this reason. I'd really like the club to start keeping score on this guy because he was totally over the top and not for the first time.

I'd like lukem to ask the club to start keeping score on umpires. If there was a 20-1 free kick count against but they were there, that's fine. But the torchlight needs to go on umpires just like it does on players. Start taking score and video recording decisions of umpires, we have the resources.

My issue has never been the free kick count per se. It's the inconsistency in relation to us. If the free kick count is 15-5 against us and we are playing like shit, being led to the ball, being sloopy and the frees are all legit, I have no issue with it.

In that first quarter we DOMINATED play and received something like 1 free kick. Maybe even none. How is that even logistically/physically possible? We were dominating play. Richmond also laid more tackles due to their chasing so much. You telling me they didn't lay a single high tackle? Hold the man a little too long? Maybe push in the back?

Get stuffed.