Umpiring

[dwwaino]

Would take you a long time to be a millionaire betting on a $1.01 shot every week.

 

[SplintWhisky]

There have been a few free kicks that I have seen that make me genuinely think that there is a directive from someone. There have been a few HTB frees in the last few weeks that I think really highlight the problem. I think it was against the Cats where Mansell was bending over to pick up the ball and as soon as he picked it up he was tackled and knocked off his feet and landed on the ball and the ump called it "diving on the ball". Same thing happened last night when I think it was Baker was already on his knees picking up the ball, tackled close to in the back, landed on the ball with no prior and was pinged for holding it.

In my mind you can't be pinged for diving on the ball if what has caused you to dive on the ball was an opposition player tackling you.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Petrified of Richmond winning a threepeat because that means we can have a real shake at the 4 peat.

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the oppo (Hocking) way.

Just had a pies fans converse with me, how well and fairly the game was officiated.

Then praise Leigh montagna.

Fml

 

[smasha]

raskolnikov dude, you barrack for Essendon

Remember the frees they got when they were flying.

 

[PaulBulluss]

That a man like Steve Hocking could play the game for so long and also reach the highest level, and still tamper with the rules with these convoluted variants is stunning! We riducule him at times, but he is not stupid, not lacking in experience. He appears to lack commonsense though.

He has an agenda. They don't want the coaches being the ones driving the direction of the game; Hocking and his cronies think they've got the game's best interests at heart and see fit to alter any aspect they deem detrimental to the game's image, watchability, marketability, appeal etc. Hence the yearly rule changes which come upon other changes which resulted from other changes - to the point where they're just fiddling with the game's essence and actually flipped it on its head.

For example, in today's game you're at a disadvantage if you get to a grounded ball first. So, you'll see two blokes hovered over a ball waiting for the other one to get it. This is so absurd that it's hard to understand the lack of a reaction from the football world.

But back to Richmond. It's clear that our game style and success has put us at the forefront of their (AFL) focus. The new rule changes clearly were made, if not totally then mostly, to negate aspects of our game plan and strategy. When you win three from four it's only natural that you'd get the most attention. They're not sitting around the rules committee table watching North and Gold Coast to find "unappealing" elements of gameplay; they watch Richmond because the natural way of things has always been that teams will try to emulate the most recent dominant team. And they want to stamp those things out before they become standard across the league.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the umpires were hammered with Richmond footage in the off-season. We're now seeing the results of that and there's no sign of it stopping.

 

[TigerTime17]

I would like the club to seek clarification on what it is they perceive we are doing wrong to give away so many frees.

I would take a tape with me and ask them to explain their decisions. My thought is that they would not be able to justify most of those examples but it may get the umpires to see that we have caught them out.

I will admit that I turned the game off last night at 3/4 time. I wasn't giving up on us winning but I knew with the flow of umpiring decisions going to the Lions that we had our backs up against the wall. I just could not watch this happen. I felt that our players dropped their heads a little with every touchy free the Lions received, they looked puzzled at some decisions. Just like I was - I broke a remote again last night I was that frustrated.

It's not the frees we gave away so much - but the ones they don't pay to us for the same infringements. It reeks of bias, even though like someone said earlier, the umpires wouldn't be smart enough to conjure that up. I disagree somewhat but I am still a little shitted off to keep going and don't want to completely ruin my weekend.

Listening to Fox etc today - they all think we won't make it this year - not one of them acknowledged our entire midfield was out which caused our back line to be a little dysfunctional as our mids were not able to prevent the fast ball into their forward line. They have NFI - bunch of sheep!

 

[Phar Ace]

He has an agenda. They don't want the coaches being the ones driving the direction of the game;

Don't have a problem with that really, that is his role after all isn't it - I don't want any coach driving the game either, be it Dimma or Paul Roos (remember back then in 2005)

Hocking and his cronies think they've got the game's best interests at heart and see fit to alter any aspect they deem detrimental to the game's image, watch-ability, marketability, appeal etc. Hence the yearly rule changes which come upon other changes which resulted from other changes - to the point where they're just fiddling with the game's essence and actually flipped it on its head.

No problem with the first part, again someone has to, and enthusiastically agree with the second part you say 'essence', I suggest the integrity of the game is being affected but i think we mean roughly the same. I consider Steve Hocking to be over-reaching in his role and we are just collateral damage. We are not the purpose, we are the consequence

For example, in today's game you're at a disadvantage if you get to a grounded ball first. So, you'll see two blokes hovered over a ball waiting for the other one to get it. This is so absurd that it's hard to understand the lack of a reaction from the football world.

This is where I said "WOW". This is such a long reach from my perspective. I just can't agree with it. The current holding the ball interpretation is saying hello! I think if there is hesitancy it is due to head clash obligations, which whether we like it or not, has legal ramifications beyond what a fan likes or doesn't like.

But back to Richmond. It's clear that our game style and success has put us at the forefront of their (AFL) focus. The new rule changes clearly were made, if not totally then mostly, to negate aspects of our game plan and strategy. When you win three from four it's only natural that you'd get the most attention. They're not sitting around the rules committee table watching North and Gold Coast to find "unappealing" elements of gameplay; they watch Richmond because the natural way of things has always been that teams will try to emulate the most recent dominant team. And they want to stamp those things out before they become standard across the league.

Again, wow! This 'the AFL is out to get Richmond' approach is so out of kilter with what is going on. There is an attempt to speed up the game after we reach some really damning lows with the defensive elements of the game created in a more pronounced way by the Swans and other variants. Their premiership win was off the back of being the third lowest scorer (points for) for the season entire season - Premiers and yet the Third Lowest Scorer! Since then there has been concerted effort to change that, and with that has came a raft of changes. It got worse the next season (2006) and the game's average score has been in decline every since (down in 2019 to levels not seen since 1968), despite better conditions and better so-called professionism. So an attack on the defensive mechanisms of the game has been taking place. The Stand Rule is the most radical attempt to so far I wou,d suggest. Add chopping the arms, add hands in the back, add protected zones both around the player and at the centre bounce. It's not because we are dominant, it's whilst we are dominant, with an attacking game style that has us strangely at odds with the rule changes about improving scoring generally. It affects us but is not about us!

You can bet your bottom dollar that the umpires were hammered with Richmond footage in the off-season. We're now seeing the results of that and there's no sign of it stopping.

I guess neither of us will ever know - because neither of us have been privvy. It's pure speculation, like that of victim mentality. I would be amazed if there is even enough footage of Richmond to be a noted victim as you suggest. I wish I still had my contact with a mate who did have contact with an AFL umpire, because that would be the only way I could dispute it, just as you are just saying 'bet your bottom dollar'. We just don't know, but it's less likely than likely.

 

[dusty1234!]

I simply can not calm down from the debacle that was last night, but I will try to give a somewhat measured opinion. As many others have said, the free kick count does not have to be the same, nor should it be the same. I do accept that the way we play does have an effect on the numbers. However what kills me is the inconsistencies in the decisions, as well as a clear bias against us from multiple specific umpires. You cannot tell me that it is just a coincidence that in 2017 our free kick differential was 18th, 2018 18th, 2019 13th, 2020 17th and 2021 18th. We do not see stats like that if the 20-8 at half time was an outlier. I see a clear and orchestrated bias against our club, personally it’s unbearable. Of course we all have our biases for the clubs we love and it’s easy to get sucked into the emotion of it, but I had a look at some other games and I made 2 observations. The state of umpiring as a whole is just shocking. From holding the ball to deliberate, it seems that each umpire has their own interpretations. The second observation being that we genuinely have it the worst. It was not only once when we were called to play on when the only movement was from the lions man on the mark, who is meant to be standing, whilst the Lions are given the full measure of time before they have to move it on. Pickett got clobbered in the hewd before that report. Cameron jumps on Ralphsmith and takes him out without getting the ball, and it’s play on. The final straw was Zorko throwing the ball and somehow getting a free for that, and they get a goal out of it. Instead of complaining about our crowd numbers, perhaps the journos could do some inverstigative journalism into the ridiculous umpiring, which is I’m sure turning away fans

 

[RJK Tiger]

You won't get any argument from me in regard the Stand Rule. It is a blight on the game and for what good - effectively turning the guy with the ball into some sort of untouchable person once he plays on for the next 2 seconds. As kids we learned that 'the Mark' was an imaginary line parallel to the goals from where 'the Mark' was taken. Making a person stand almost motionless is a visual and auditory blight. There are now too many contradictions of purpose within the games rules. With every slight deviation of the rules comes another 5-10 purpose contradictions - it's the Domino effect. That a man like Steve Hocking could play the game for so long and also reach the highest level, and still tamper with the rules with these convoluted variants is stunning! We riducule him at times, but he is not stupid, not lacking in experience. He appears to lack commonsense though.

Tell me any other sport where a player is made to act like a scarecrow.

As i said in an earlier post, i have been blissfully watching old classic games on Kayo. last night i watched the 1999 match against the Bulldogs V Carlton. The game itself was a total bloody hoot and the style of the game was incredible. To me, the play moved just as fast in its intent - players were not quite as fast overall, but the intent was there. The game flowed beautifully though. When whistles blew, the players instantly moved in the direction of the free - as it was obvious. Because of this the flow of the game was much better. Currently, that doesn't happen. Everytime the whistle blows, everyone has to stop as the free kick is not obvious and they have scared everyone into giving away a 50, or not taking the mark correctly.

I really urge everyone to watch those older games and tell me their opinion, certainly from the 90's up. There is a lot to learn about how things have changed. High scoring games they were too. Both teams kicking 15-16 goals each. I watched it and found myself blown away how good a 3rd gamer Luke Blackwell looked. A name i had forgotten completely about - he turned out not being a big star or anything, but he just moved through the game with intent and speed and his kicking at goal was really excellent. My point of that is, even 3rd game players seemed more prepared to play the game with serious intent to score, run and take the game on.

The modern game owes a lot to its indigenous stars & the handful of genuine superstars like Dusty. But without Eddie Betts, Liam Ryan, Shai Bolton - without them, the game would have been a dull turd devoid of the moments that at least let the AFL create an impressive 30 second highlights clip to suck oversea's fans into thinking the game is a lot more fun than it really is.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Tell me any other sport where a player is made to act like a scarecrow.

As i said in an earlier post, i have been blissfully watching old classic games on Kayo. last night i watched the 1999 match against the Bulldogs V Carlton. The game itself was a total bloody hoot and the style of the game was incredible. To me, the play moved just as fast in its intent - players were not quite as fast overall, but the intent was there. The game flowed beautifully though. When whistles blew, the players instantly moved in the direction of the free - as it was obvious. Because of this the flow of the game was much better. Currently, that doesn't happen. Everytime the whistle blows, everyone has to stop as the free kick is not obvious and they have scared everyone into giving away a 50, or not taking the mark correctly.

I really urge everyone to watch those older games and tell me their opinion, certainly from the 90's up. There is a lot to learn about how things have changed. High scoring games they were too. Both teams kicking 15-16 goals each. I watched it and found myself blown away how good a 3rd gamer Luke Blackwell looked. A name i had forgotten completely about - he turned out not being a big star or anything, but he just moved through the game with intent and speed and his kicking at goal was really excellent. My point of that is, even 3rd game players seemed more prepared to play the game with serious intent to score, run and take the game on.

The modern game owes a lot to its indigenous stars & the handful of genuine superstars like Dusty. But without Eddie Betts, Liam Ryan, Shai Bolton - without them, the game would have been a dull turd devoid of the moments that at least let the AFL create an impressive 30 second highlights clip to suck oversea's fans into thinking the game is a lot more fun than it really is.

Netball

 

[RJK Tiger]

I simply can not calm down from the debacle that was last night, but I will try to give a somewhat measured opinion. As many others have said, the free kick count does not have to be the same, nor should it be the same. I do accept that the way we play does have an effect on the numbers. However what kills me is the inconsistencies in the decisions, as well as a clear bias against us from multiple specific umpires. You cannot tell me that it is just a coincidence that in 2017 our free kick differential was 18th, 2018 18th, 2019 13th, 2020 17th and 2021 18th. We do not see stats like that if the 20-8 at half time was an outlier. I see a clear and orchestrated bias against our club, personally it’s unbearable. Of course we all have our biases for the clubs we love and it’s easy to get sucked into the emotion of it, but I had a look at some other games and I made 2 observations. The state of umpiring as a whole is just shocking. From holding the ball to deliberate, it seems that each umpire has their own interpretations. The second observation being that we genuinely have it the worst. It was not only once when we were called to play on when the only movement was from the lions man on the mark, who is meant to be standing, whilst the Lions are given the full measure of time before they have to move it on. Pickett got clobbered in the hewd before that report. Cameron jumps on Ralphsmith and takes him out without getting the ball, and it’s play on. The final straw was Zorko throwing the ball and somehow getting a free for that, and they get a goal out of it. Instead of complaining about our crowd numbers, perhaps the journos could do some inverstigative journalism into the ridiculous umpiring, which is I’m sure turning away fans

The only thing that calmed me down is the realisation that the best thing that could ever happen to this teams legacy, is to win the flag from 6th -8th spot. It just feels like our destiny.

The club should put its head down and ride the shitstorm, as we did last year. Let our players know that any media situations they or their partners may create to attract attention to us will not be tolerated. Let the "narrative" as wheatley puts it - die done and let us be written off. We are going to be Muhammad Ali & let the rest be George Foreman. We will rope a dope them in our own version of the "rumble in the jungle"

Let the shitstorm die down & let the footy world think that we are out of the picture. Keep playing RCD, Naish & Ralph-Smith - and keep blooding more options as they earn the right to. If Stacks head is in the right place & he can get his fitness to absolute top notch level, then the club should look to bring him in around round 17 or so. He will be out x-factor/Townsend for 2021.

I think as a club and a supporter base, for us to enjoy this season to its maximum, our best course is to believe that this is our best destiny for the legacy of our teams greatness. Top 4 has bolted IMO - lets focus on getting a home final for the elimination final & cheer for the Cats, Dee's & Dogs to keep winning and lock in a top 4 spot, lessening our chances of having to play a prelim interstate.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Netball

Yep, I actually said it earlier. The man on the mark literally looks as stupid as a GD player, mimicking me trying to reach for the chips my wife hid on the top shelf

 

[Phar Ace]

Tell me any other sport where a player is made to act like a scarecrow.

As i said in an earlier post, i have been blissfully watching old classic games on Kayo. last night i watched the 1999 match against the Bulldogs V Carlton. The game itself was a total bloody hoot and the style of the game was incredible. To me, the play moved just as fast in its intent - players were not quite as fast overall, but the intent was there. The game flowed beautifully though. When whistles blew, the players instantly moved in the direction of the free - as it was obvious. Because of this the flow of the game was much better. Currently, that doesn't happen. Everytime the whistle blows, everyone has to stop as the free kick is not obvious and they have scared everyone into giving away a 50, or not taking the mark correctly.

I really urge everyone to watch those older games and tell me their opinion, certainly from the 90's up. There is a lot to learn about how things have changed. High scoring games they were too. Both teams kicking 15-16 goals each. I watched it and found myself blown away how good a 3rd gamer Luke Blackwell looked. A name i had forgotten completely about - he turned out not being a big star or anything, but he just moved through the game with intent and speed and his kicking at goal was really excellent. My point of that is, even 3rd game players seemed more prepared to play the game with serious intent to score, run and take the game on.

The modern game owes a lot to its indigenous stars & the handful of genuine superstars like Dusty. But without Eddie Betts, Liam Ryan, Shai Bolton - without them, the game would have been a dull turd devoid of the moments that at least let the AFL create an impressive 30 second highlights clip to suck oversea's fans into thinking the game is a lot more fun than it really is.

Wouldn't happen in Hurling! It's time we started to arm our players I think..... see attached

 

[Ryannn]

I mentioned to my flatmate last night that I've found myself bracing for a whistle at every marking contest or stoppage because I've grown to expect a free kick against us.

 

[Dont_Argue]

I wasn’t t aware you could just jump up, knee someone in the back of the head, get nowhere near the ball and play on

 

[biaseddustyfan]

I'm thinking this might have effect on the players to the free kicks we don't get or paid against us you seen Pickett loose it after he got cloths lined.

he should've necked the umpire instead

 

[tigerdan]

I can't accept corruption (if anyone's really saying that after they've calmed down). If you were gonna be corrupt you wouldn't do it against the same team, you'd let North win and cash in on the huge odds.

However I can't accept that we have mongel players because all the frees would be for in the back or too high.

So what is it?

I can't abide this attitude that upires can't be criticised. I umpired and copped heckles when I occasionally make a howler. It's not that ******* hard to do your job. And I tell you what, when I did * up I made sure I didn't do it twice.

I would sack all the useless campaigner umpires until we get some men with balls officiating. Inmy rage last night I would have put s**t in a postpak and sent it to those useless campaigners had I known their address.

 

[biaseddustyfan]

The best one is when they call play on when the player has literally just turned around after picking the ball up next to the fence. From memory it happened to Lynch.

It's farcical. These new rules and interpretations are making a mockery of the game. I can't think of another sport that is more contrived.

Baker has a guy run into him and they call high contact. A minute later he receives a handball, braces for contact while still essentially getting control of the ball and they pay HTB.

They want to create free flowing football but for what reason? Is the game more attractive? Are higher scores being kicked?

Balta, Lunch and Jiewoldt all questioned the umpires when they were told to play on instantly. the players know we're being reamed and aren't happy but seemingly can't do a thing. would be frustrating as hell to be out there as a tigs player right now

 

[RJK Tiger]

I can't accept corruption (if anyone's really saying that after they've calmed down). If you were gonna be corrupt you wouldn't do it against the same team, you'd let North win and cash in on the huge odds.

I can't accept that we have mongel players because all the frees would be for in the back or too high.

I can't abide this attitude that upires can't be criticised. I umpired and copped heckles when I occasionally make a howler. It's not that ******* hard to do your job. And I tell you what, when I did fu** up I made sure I didn't do it twice.

I would sack all the useless campaigner umpires until we get some men with balls officiating. I'm my rage last night I would have put sh*t in a postpak and sent it to those useless campaigners had I known their address.

After 20 years of watching the NBA, Cricket & various FIFA tournaments - i can tell you that umpire corruption is definitely a real thing. AFL is certainly not above it IMO. They are just another big company doing what they can to control every aspect of their product, staff, image etc.

The AFL even talks about the game being played as "a product" . I'd prefer not to lean on views that make people reach for a tin foil hat, but FFS - at what point do you just run out of justification on this bullshit?

 

[biaseddustyfan]

free kick reaming update:

since rd1 2017 we've:

won free kick count by 7 or more twice
lost free kick count by 7 or more 29 times

2021 has been by far the worst, losing the free kick count by 10+ most weeks with a few 7's in there. think we've won it twice by small margins

the AFL didn't want our first flag in 2017 and they definitely don't want us to 3peat

 

[Marcel Proust]

Wouldn't happen in Hurling! It's time we started to arm our players I think..... see attached

Speaking of such tigers are due for an Irish gun.

Our south ireland scouting has been piss poor

 

[RJK Tiger]

free kick reaming update:

since rd1 2017 we've:

won free kick count by 7 or more twice
lost free kick count by 7 or more 29 times

2021 has been by far the worst, losing the free kick count by 10+ most weeks with a few 7's in there. think we've won it twice by small margins

the AFL didn't want our first flag in 2017 and they definitely don't want us to 3peat

Dont agree the AFL didn't want our first flag. It was a massive pay day. It was only really 2020 that it became a problem for them, they would have loved to see Brisbane win it as it would have taken the burn out all the financial losses they copped - a "silver lining" to a covid cloud. They know the game up here is on the brink of popping, especially with the Bronco's sucking balls. I have spoken to the chap who runs the AFL grassroots footy up here and the growth they have seen in kid participation and TV views etc is off the charts. They AFL smells money in the water up here, the Lions losing in the prelim would have caused tears

 

[Phar Ace]

I mentioned to my flatmate last night that I've found myself bracing for a whistle at every marking contest or stoppage because I've grown to expect a free kick against us.

Did your flatmate sympathise or take advantage of you bracing yourself

 

[Phar Ace]

I wasn’t t aware you could just jump up, knee someone in the back of the head, get nowhere near the ball and play on

You do know a lot of opposition say something like that about Jack and Tom

 

[biaseddustyfan]

Dont agree the AFL didn't want our first flag. It was a massive pay day. It was only really 2020 that it became a problem for them, they would have loved to see Brisbane win it as it would have taken the burn out all the financial losses they copped. They know the game up here is on the brink of popping, especially with the Bronco's sucking balls. I have spoken to the chap who runs the AFL grassroots footy up here and the growth they have seen in kid participation and TV views etc is off the charts. They AFL smells money in the water up here, the Lions losing in the prelim would have caused tears

they wanted to Geelong to win it as the AFL has been run by Geelong since around 2015 and they have added more insiders since then

problem is they didn't realise how s**t of a coach Chris Salt is and how overrated players like Hawkins and Duckwood are