Umpiring

[OniAu]

Re: Dropping the ball....

Seriously....is this a rule anymore? Essendon clearly dropped the ball 2 or 3 times today and not once was it called....i'm sick and tired of these F wit umps that fail to call it....

Grrrrrrrrrrr....

End rant.....

apparently not , i noticed the same aswell. there was more than 3 occasions where an essendon player was tackled, they just let the ball drop to the ground without disposing. to me that is eitheir holdign the ball, or droppign the ball. There is no other explanation for it , how it can be play on i dont know.

This year is making me question AFL as a game in terms of enjoyment to watch. The umpries are the biggest problem , this is stemming from the games being over analysed by the AFL and rules are made for the sake of having rules. If you are drawing 80k crowds ten years ago without these rule changes, why is there a need to bring in new rules now. $#^%

Someone needs to make a chris crocker parody and send it to the afl or the footy show

 

[didaka]

Tell ya something. I know umpires are meant to be impartial, but if I copped the crap they have been of late from our mob I'd be inclined to maybe pay one or two 50/50's against us.

I also believe we've had a rough trot, but if you keep it to yourself things will turn around, and they will.

 

[KissStephanie]

Anthony Rocca's had to be a 50m penalty he kicked the ball away after running 10m after the free kick was paid. It was a no-brainer.

He should have been given the benefit of the doubt. I don't believe that he heard the whistle due to the crowd noise, and I'm sure he realised that his mark was fair and square and that he had every right to run into an open goal. In a situation like that the free kick paid against him would have been enough of an incorrect decision without rubbing salt into the wound by penalising him 50 metres as well.

I been to many games this year and Collingwood supporter complain by far the most.

Rightfully so this season. The umpires have had a direct hand in the result of two matches that Collingwoiod has lost by less than a goal. In both matches Collingwood were also responsible for the loss, but in both matches Collingwood would have held on to win despite that without the umpires incorrect influence.

Rocca's potentially was a line ball decision and could have been paid or not

The goal should have stood. Not only was it just a battle of strength but that kind of contesting should not be removed from the game for the good of the game. As long as a player is doing it within five metres of the ball and not pushing in the back or using hands in the back, which Rocca didn't do either, then it should be allowed of course as it always had been.

the reality is many decisions are line ball and Essendon could find decisions thoughout the game that affected whether they would have kicked a goal.

I can't think of any. What examples are you speaking of did you just make that up? In a five point win, they received 15 free kicks to Collingwood's 8 free kicks, and they were paid most of their touchy free kicks while Collingwood were not. Essendon would not have won this match without umpire influence. That is the second time that has happened for them this year, while it is the second time that umpiring has had a direct effect on a Collingwood loss.

Credit to Essendon for fighting the game out, and there is absolutely no doubt that Collingwood were also responsible for the loss, but it doesn't change the fact that the umpires are having too much influence in matches decided by less than a goal this season. Jeff Kennett is right that the umpires are having too much influence and are becoming more critical to the result than the players.

And finally could collingwood supporters please stop using the free kick count as evidence for bad umpiring the differential of free kicks is not in any way evidence of bad umpiring

Prove it. If Collingwood receives a number of free kicks less that the opposition from time to time, then that is acceptable, but it is occurring regularly. Collingwood were last in free kicks received in 2008, were absolutely slaughtered with free kicks in the NAB Cup, and now are last again in the free kicks received and the difference in free kicks received to free kicks against. That is when it becomes a concerning and influencing issue which led to the club requesting a meeting with the AFL about it. That meeting did absolutely no good as shown yesterday.

I watched the match live here in the US with an American that has recently learned the game. Even he said that Essendon were receiving the touchy free kicks when Collingwood were not. I think it was quite evident to both Collingwood supporters and people that are truly impartial. I don't believe that you are truly impartial, otherwise you would have noticed it as well. There is no way in the context of this 5 point match that Essendon should have received nearly double the amount of free kicks.

 

[rose jam]

Collingwood has lost every free kick count since the start of the Nab cup, so now it's a pattern.

But come on, the Rocca one was directly Jeff Geiscjen's fault. The previous week he defended an identical decision against Darren Glass on Josh Hill that the whole football world laughed at, but just laughed off. Guess what, umpires believe that now you can't push anyone, anywhere in a marking contest, and so it is the umpires committee that it is now killing contested footy. And I'm sure Rocca did hear the whistle, rightfully believing the whistle mean't pay the mark, not a free.

3 50's against the Pies all which were unwarranted all resulting in goals or passages of play directly resulting in goals, and 1 being a goal taken off us. 24 point difference diectly from bad calls, not even counting anything else.

 

[Sloth]

The 50m penalty against Thomas was a bit bizzare as well

 

[FBDonkey]

lol at this thread.

If any1 watched the footy last weekend, listened to the radio or watched any of the footy shows they would know that Roccas push was a free kick. I think it is a bulls**t rule, but the umpires made the rule pretty clear.

You guys had a 2 day extra break, you play all your games in Melbourne, and you still find a way (every time you lose) to blame the AFL and the umpires. You dont deserve to play finals with that attitude!

 

[didaka]

lol at this thread.

If any1 watched the footy last weekend, listened to the radio or watched any of the footy shows they would know that Roccas push was a free kick. I think it is a bulls**t rule, but the umpires made the rule pretty clear.

You guys had a 2 day extra break, you play all your games in Melbourne, and you still find a way (every time you lose) to blame the AFL and the umpires. You dont deserve to play finals with that attitude!

I agree.

 

[astrowizzle]

Collingwood receive the highest amount of free kicks against in the league for the past half a decade therefore giving us every right to complain about umpiring.

Yes it is.

KissStephanie's post sums it up -

Rubbish. There was no way that it should have been 15 free kicks to 8 free kicks, and not only should Rocca's goal have stood, but it most definitely should not have been a free kick and a 50 metre penalty. Of course Essendon were desperate and wanted to win more, but that does not give the umpires the right to pay the touchy free kicks to Essendon and to overlook the touchy free kicks that didn't go to Collingwood.

Can you please provide a list of all the teams and free kicks from the past 5 years, or 10 years would be better as i am unable to ever find it. WOuld really appreciate the numbers

cheers

 

[mdc]

Can you please provide a list of all the teams and free kicks from the past 5 years, or 10 years would be better as i am unable to ever find it. WOuld really appreciate the numbers

cheers

They're given in this post.

Fwiw, people expecting even free kick counts are wrong. The number of free kicks for and against is dependent on a number of factors including possession rate, tackle rate etc...

 

[Plumah]

Its funny how you pie fans are complaining about the holding ball. There were also numorous time where Collingwood had it in our forward 50 and just simply dropped the ball (example, leon davis in the last 5 minutes). Counted 3-4 others aswell, at least they were consistant then....

Umpires aren't out there to give Collingwood a hard time, its just that your deluded.

 

[DoubleO7]

Can you please provide a list of all the teams and free kicks from the past 5 years, or 10 years would be better as i am unable to ever find it. WOuld really appreciate the numbers

cheers

Footywire -> Team rankings -> Frees Against

If you look at frees against column for the past 10 years, you would see that Collingwood have been in the bottom eight more often than not for the aforementioned statistic. This year is recurring in the same fashion as the 2008 season.

 

[Bonuspoints]

You can't seriously blame this loss on the umps. Yeah they made some terrible calls, but they do every game and its a part of footy. You've got to accept that you will get bad free kicks against you and they'll miss blatant ones that you should have got - Thats footy.

We lost because we turned over the ball way too much, particularly coming out of defense. Add to that we kept doing these floating handballs that just held up in the air too long so that the player was either under pressure as soon as he got it or had to jump to get it killing his momentum or making for an easy tackle.

The umps didn't take it from us, We lost the game... they didn't help us, but this loss is definitely on the shoulders of the players and coaches.

 

[loki04]

FFS ENOUGH , STOP BLAMING THE UMPS FOR THE ABYSMAL FORM OF OUR TEAM!

If we played better footy the umps wouldn't come into it, every team has missed free's and or free's that weren't there.

Move on, get over it and win the footy 1st/put your head over the footy and the umps will look after you.

Conversely be 2nd to the ball and you will end up giving more free's away.

 

[Lazar Vidovic]

They're given in this post.

Fwiw, people expecting even free kick counts are wrong. The number of free kicks for and against is dependent on a number of factors including possession rate, tackle rate etc...

Haha this prove the theory that Collingwood arent "hard done" by hte umpires.

But even then free kick ratio mean nothing in terms of whether umpires have done a good job. You get to the contest first you'll get free kicks. Collingwood probably dont do this, and coupled with the fact that you have a reputation for being a high tackling team will mean more free kicks against.

Could you guys please stop whining about how hte AFL has it against you. The reality is you look at hte draw for hte last 10 years you guys lived a charmed life in terms of who, when and where you play

 

[DoubleO7]

Haha this prove the theory that Collingwood arent "hard done" by hte umpires.

Watch the first 5 games (involving Collingwood) of the year then come back here and have a good hard look at your comment.

But even then free kick ratio mean nothing in terms of whether umpires have done a good job. You get to the contest first you'll get free kicks. Collingwood probably dont do this, and coupled with the fact that you have a reputation for being a high tackling team will mean more free kicks against.

This is one possibility.

Could you guys please stop whining about how hte AFL has it against you. The reality is you look at hte draw for hte last 10 years you guys lived a charmed life in terms of who, when and where you play

And that is our fault because? The rest of the competition want to play against us. They lodge for a draw against Collingwood. There is nothing Collingwood can do about that. Go and take it up with your own club and stop complaining about the supposed 'favourable draw', oh, and we at Collingwood would like to play more interstate games if that's ok with you?

 

[StillWaiting5689]

Footywire -> Team rankings -> Frees Against

If you look at frees against column for the past 10 years, you would see that Collingwood have been in the bottom eight more often than not for the aforementioned statistic. This year is recurring in the same fashion as the 2008 season.

Are you saying that the umpires are purposely not giving Collingwood fair treatment and that they have been planning and doing this for at least ten years?
I'm not really thrilled with the umpires of late but lets not make outlandish claims, every team cops it. We didn't deserve to win so instead of making the umpires the scapegoats we focus on the team.

 

[DoubleO7]

Are you saying that the umpires are purposely not giving Collingwood fair treatment and that they have been planning and doing this for at least ten years?
I'm not really thrilled with the umpires of late but lets not make outlandish claims, every team cops it. We didn't deserve to win so instead of making the umpires the scapegoats we focus on the team.

What are you talking about? I'm merely posting factual statistics for the past decade regarding Collingwood and the free kicks against conundrum. I haven't made any outlandish claims.

 

[DNine]

Umpires will always be poor, the game is too fast for them, and they haven't got a great vantage point. When I played footy, I questioned the umpire within 15 meters of myself. Anything further, I never commented on, even if my team was screaming black and blue the ump was wrong. Truth is, I couldn't be sure any further away than that distance. I can't see how umpires are expected to get the calls right, more than 15 meters from the contest. 15 meters + the calls are very much guess work. You need the umpires, to have a zoom lense eye, and perfect vision. Oh, I know, the live broadcast

Now we just need a live audio feed to let a couple of runner umpires to relay the message to the players. What a unique idea, jump on it, it would never work, yeah yeah heard it before. I'll wait longer, but it will happen when the footy world is ready for it. Until then be my guest pop blood vessels in your head, they really are guessing, thats the truth.

 

[Smoky]

Essesndon deserved to win and I didnt think the umpiring was too bad this week. No where near perfect but alot better than previous weeks, but did not cost us the game at all. The decision against Rocca and the 50 simply had a negative affect on our players and they let it beat them.

Collingwood dont have that player that other clubs have that umpires really look after. I noticed today the umpire telling Chris Judd to "let him go" instead of paying a holding the man... another time when he was scrapping in a pack and the ball came out, specifically called that the ball was out and to move on... very rarely do you hear that advice for Pies players, its usually just the whistle.

How good was the footage of the umpires adviser in the room last week telling the umpires to watch Hodge and Mitchell as they get hung onto alot! Shouldnt the umpires be judging each opposing players equally... oh no, look out for our mates Hodgey and Mitchell... Pathetic rort.

Dominic Casisi got 7 free kicks on the weekend... Collingwood got 9!

 

[StillWaiting5689]

What are you talking about? I'm merely posting factual statistics for the past decade regarding Collingwood and the free kicks against conundrum. I haven't made any outlandish claims.

Well what relevance does a free kick paid against us in 1999 have if your not saying the umpires have it out for Collingwood?

 

[bothfeetshanker]

Yep, was definately the umpires.

But I also forgot to wear my lucky undies, so I must accept some blame. My mate had a hole in his lucky socks as well so he fessed up for his role in the loss.

Clearly had nothing to do with the players making simple skill errors, Essendon winning a number of key contests, and our shyte game plan and refusal to go near the centre of the ground.

Yep, definately the umps...

 

[DoubleO7]

Well what relevance does a free kick paid against us in 1999 have if your not saying the umpires have it out for Collingwood?

I was answering this posters queries -

Can you please provide a list of all the teams and free kicks from the past 5 years, or 10 years would be better as i am unable to ever find it. WOuld really appreciate the numbers

cheers

 

[StillWaiting5689]

I was answering this posters queries -

My bad I must have skipped over that when I read the thread.

 

[Dangas]

Get over the umpiring, Yes maybe the Anthony Rocca hands in the back was soft, but thats it, the result WON'T change. As for Medhurst, he plays for frees, and thats why it LOOKED like he should have received one.

 

[KissStephanie]

Get over the umpiring, Yes maybe the Anthony Rocca hands in the back was soft

When did Anthony Rocca place hands in the back? Do you mean when he fairly shoved Fletcher in the side within 5 metres of the ball before marking and kicking the sealer that was then disallowed and he was penalised 50 metres?

But come on, the Rocca one was directly Jeff Geiscjen's fault. The previous week he defended an identical decision against Darren Glass on Josh Hill that the whole football world laughed at, but just laughed off.

What did he say when Quenten Lynch wrapped his arms around Brian Lake and picked him and threw him out the way before marking and kicking a goal?

And I'm sure Rocca did hear the whistle, rightfully believing the whistle mean't pay the mark, not a free.

He could have been given the benefit of the doubt and not penalised 50 metres. I believe that Essendon would have run out of time if they didn't get that bonus 50 metre penalty.

If any1 watched the footy last weekend, listened to the radio or watched any of the footy shows they would know that Roccas push was a free kick. I think it is a bulls**t rule, but the umpires made the rule pretty clear.

I watched the West Coast v. Western Bulldogs match last week. Quentin Lynch wasn't penalised for worse at all. What are you talking about?

You guys had a 2 day extra break, you play all your games in Melbourne

What does that have to do with umpiring? Are you trying to suggest that teams that have a longer break and play their matches in Melbourne should receive a hard time from the umpiring to help even things up? If that's what you're suggesting, then that is ridiculous. The length of the break, and the location of where matches are played has nothing to do with the the subject of this thread of course, and Essendon plays the same amount of matches in Melbourne as well. Why weren't they penalised for that on the weekend?

and you still find a way (every time you lose) to blame the AFL and the umpires.

I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself. I can accept the odd occasion when Collingwood receives nearly half as many free kicks, and I didn't complain once this season, even though Collingwood were last in the free kicks received total.

This year though, Collingwood has received less free kicks than the opposition on four occasions, and the umpires have had a direct effect on the result due to incorrect decisions made in the four point loss to Adelaide, and the five loss to Essendon. On the other hand, Essendon would not have beaten Carlton or Collingwood without incorrect umpiring decisions. I'm not trying to be politically correct, and I couldn't care less if someone calls me a whinger.

You dont deserve to play finals with that attitude!

Collingwood deserves to play finals if they win enough matches to qualify.

FFS ENOUGH , STOP BLAMING THE UMPS FOR THE ABYSMAL FORM OF OUR TEAM!

If you're not interested in the thread topic, then why are you contributing to it?

If we played better footy the umps wouldn't come into it

What does this mean? If the umpires didn't pay free kicks that have directly effected the result of two matches, then they wouldn't come into it either. This thread is specifically about the umpiring and not the other factors that have led to two Collingwood losses under a goal.

I am aware that the team is also responsible for those losses. No doubt about it. They made critical mistakes against Adelaide and Essendon, and they played poorly in both matches. Despite that, Collingwood would still have got away with wins in both of those matches if it wasn't for incorrect umpiring decisions that directly effected the scoreboard.

every team has missed free's and or free's that weren't there.

Which frees for Adelaide and Essendon that had a direct effect on the result are you referring to? I can't think of any critically missed frees for Adelaide in Round 1, or Essendon on the weekend.

Can you please provide a list of all the teams and free kicks from the past 5 years, or 10 years would be better as i am unable to ever find it. WOuld really appreciate the numbers

You can find it here, and then you can go back through the years from there. In Round 3 this year, Essendon kicked two goals from incorrect umpiring decisions against Carlton, yet Carlton had more free kicks that night. In Round 1, Adelaide received only four more free kicks than Collingwood, but a number of incorrect decisions directly resulted in goals that benefited the Crows.

Essendon had seven more free kicks on the weekend, but it wasn't as bad as it was against Adelaide, so there is definitely more to it than just the totals. The umpires are having too much of a direct effect on matches this season though, twice in Collingwood losses that were under a goal, and that is why I am bothered about it.