Undervalued Cricketers

PhatBoy

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There’s been dozens of discussions about underrated players - this is a different sort of criteria.

Who are players you think of as not being appreciated for what they achieved or provided for their team?

The whole reason I started thinking about this was because of Nasser Hussain. Not a great player by any means. Capable and resilient was about the best that could be said about his mediocre batting.
But after a disastrous 12-13 years in which they at one point fell below Zimbabwe in the test rankings from memory, everything England have achieved since probably started with Hussain’s tenure as captain, actually giving his side a backbone, like a not-so-good-at-batting Allan Border. Vaughan began his career under him, a lot of the 2005 Ashes guys did too. Seems a shame he didn’t get to be a part of it when guys like Paul Collingwood and Geraint Jones can spend their lives saying they were.
 

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Sproj

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#3
Peter Siddle - Not the greatest fast bowler to ever represent Australia but never let anyone down at test level and if anything, over-achieved based on his talent but one thing you could never doubt was that when the going got tough, he'd give 110%, even if his 110% was not as good as many others of his generation. That willingness to fight no matter the situation is something I'd love to see some others in this current test side learn. He is a good example of you don't have to be the best to at least give yourself a chance of pulling something from nothing.
 

Ishikawa

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#5
There’s been dozens of discussions about underrated players - this is a different sort of criteria.

Who are players you think of as not being appreciated for what they achieved or provided for their team?

The whole reason I started thinking about this was because of Nasser Hussain. Not a great player by any means. Capable and resilient was about the best that could be said about his mediocre batting.
But after a disastrous 12-13 years in which they at one point fell below Zimbabwe in the test rankings from memory, everything England have achieved since probably started with Hussain’s tenure as captain, actually giving his side a backbone, like a not-so-good-at-batting Allan Border. Vaughan began his career under him, a lot of the 2005 Ashes guys did too. Seems a shame he didn’t get to be a part of it when guys like Paul Collingwood and Geraint Jones can spend their lives saying they were.
Agree that Hussain deserves to be known for more than the derised figure for winning the toss and electing to bowl at the Gabba. But shithouse call on Collingwood and Jones, both gave a heck of a lot of service to the English game with both only retiring in the past couple of years marshalling the next generation. Each made pretty significant contributions during their time in the national team too (Collingwood especially).

Collingwood himself would make a pretty good nomination for this thread.
 

PhatBoy

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Agree that Hussain deserves to be known for more than the derised figure for winning the toss and electing to bowl at the Gabba. But shithouse call on Collingwood and Jones, both gave a heck of a lot of service to the English game with both only retiring in the past couple of years marshalling the next generation. Each made pretty significant contributions during their time in the national team too (Collingwood especially).

Collingwood himself would make a pretty good nomination for this thread.
I meant in terms of their contribution to the 2005 Ashes. Collingwood was a hell of a cricketer
 
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#8
Peter Siddle - Not the greatest fast bowler to ever represent Australia but never let anyone down at test level and if anything, over-achieved based on his talent but one thing you could never doubt was that when the going got tough, he'd give 110%, even if his 110% was not as good as many others of his generation. That willingness to fight no matter the situation is something I'd love to see some others in this current test side learn. He is a good example of you don't have to be the best to at least give yourself a chance of pulling something from nothing.
The bloke hit 150kms on occasion early in his career, there was definitely plenty of talent there early on.
 

to1994

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#9
I think Shane Watson is more appreciated now simply because of how awful Mitch Marsh has been, Watson honestly wasn't much better in his last couple of years but he had a couple of really good years early on that were forgotten about because his form dropped off so badly.

I'd say Mike Atherton, Hussain got the best out of himself but he did very little in the late 90s and it was only in the early 2000s he was more consistent and that's when he was playing weaker opposition, teams like New Zealand etc. Atherton's England might be ridiculed but it was the product of a really poor county system at the time which was the reason players like Hick and Ramprakash dominated at county level but could barely average 30 in Tests.

An average of 37 might look poor but for that period in the 90s when you had Warne (who interestingly said that 1993-1998, Atherton's years of captaincy were when he bowled at his best) McGrath for Aus, Donald, Pollock etc. for SA, Walsh/Ambrose for Windies, Akram/Younis there was nowhere to hide and 37 starts to look pretty respectable for an opener. I have no doubt if he was playing now he'd average 45+.
 

Ishikawa

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#10
I meant in terms of their contribution to the 2005 Ashes. Collingwood was a hell of a cricketer
Jones got them out of the shit on a couple of occasions with the bat IIRC. Ian Bell was greener than green in that series but also managed to make a couple of 50's. The MBE thing was a bit silly but the impact of the series was enormous and would be fairly ridiculous to draw a line and say we'll give 11 of the 12 guys who played in the series but sorry Collingwood you miss out.

Graham Thorpe was pretty damn unlucky as well given the service he gave and to miss out on winning an Ashes, but guess that's just how it goes sadly.
 

PhatBoy

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I think Shane Watson is more appreciated now simply because of how awful Mitch Marsh has been, Watson honestly wasn't much better in his last couple of years but he had a couple of really good years early on that were forgotten about because his form dropped off so badly.

I'd say Mike Atherton, Hussain got the best out of himself but he did very little in the late 90s and it was only in the early 2000s he was more consistent and that's when he was playing weaker opposition, teams like New Zealand etc. Atherton's England might be ridiculed but it was the product of a really poor county system at the time which was the reason players like Hick and Ramprakash dominated at county level but could barely average 30 in Tests.

An average of 37 might look poor but for that period in the 90s when you had Warne (who interestingly said that 1993-1998, Atherton's years of captaincy were when he bowled at his best) McGrath for Aus, Donald, Pollock etc. for SA, Walsh/Ambrose for Windies, Akram/Younis there was nowhere to hide and 37 starts to look pretty respectable for an opener. I have no doubt if he was playing now he'd average 45+.
That’s harsh on Hussain. He averaged almost 40 against Australia and 44 against SA.

His first century at Edbaston came in a match where only Tendulkar passed 53 of the other 22 batsmen, he hit a double in England’s only ‘live’ ashes Test win of the 1990s against McGrath, Gillespie, Warne and Kasprowicz in 1997 (and another against the same attack only with Reiffel instead of Kasper in the same series with his side 3-50 in the second innings and trailing by 300), 106 off 318 to earn a draw against Walsh and Ambrose, 105 following on against Pollock, Donald, Klusener and Kallis, 146 against the same attack plus Hayward, 109 at 2-37 against Murali and Vaasy in Kandy, 106 as last man out against a fairly average NZ attack...... they were 2-0 when he came to the crease. 106 at 2-29 against Pollock/Ntini/Kallis, 103 at 2-35 chasing 280 against Cairns/Martin/Vettori.

Agree with everything re. Atherton but Hussain wasn’t a downhill skier
 

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to1994

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#15
That’s harsh on Hussain. He averaged almost 40 against Australia and 44 against SA.

His first century at Edbaston came in a match where only Tendulkar passed 53 of the other 22 batsmen, he hit a double in England’s only ‘live’ ashes Test win of the 1990s against McGrath, Gillespie, Warne and Kasprowicz in 1997 (and another against the same attack only with Reiffel instead of Kasper in the same series with his side 3-50 in the second innings and trailing by 300), 106 off 318 to earn a draw against Walsh and Ambrose, 105 following on against Pollock, Donald, Klusener and Kallis, 146 against the same attack plus Hayward, 109 at 2-37 against Murali and Vaasy in Kandy, 106 as last man out against a fairly average NZ attack...... they were 2-0 when he came to the crease. 106 at 2-29 against Pollock/Ntini/Kallis, 103 at 2-35 chasing 280 against Cairns/Martin/Vettori.

Agree with everything re. Atherton but Hussain wasn’t a downhill skier
Some fair points there, I think he just might get overshadowed because his captaincy and some of his good form came at the same time Vaughan and Trescothick had established themselves in the side. Pietersen debuted not too long after he retired and the fans would've quickly forgot those gritty players.
 

PhatBoy

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Continuing the theme of Englishmen through their dark years (and this just highlights how bad the players around them actually were):

- Angus Fraser, ultra-reliable seamer and was basically their only consistently world class bowler prior to the emergence of the pace quartet early in the millennium. Caddick and Malcolm obviously had their moments but he was the pick.

- Alec Stewart. Criminally under appreciated considering what he gave that side in terms of an aggressive batsman who was absolutely amazing against pace... shit against spin, and consistently opened or took the gloves depending on what was asked of him. They didn’t have much success while he was in the side but geez they got some value out of him.
 

MJG14

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Continuing the theme of Englishmen through their dark years (and this just highlights how bad the players around them actually were):
I thought Darren Gough in addition to Fraser and Stewart.
Stewart was an excellent batsman.
 
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Gough

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I remember watching Ramps on the 98 tour of the West Indies and thinking he was finally going to deliver. Sadly he goes on the list of batsman you wanted to strangle.
 

STFU Donnie

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#22
That’s harsh on Hussain. He averaged almost 40 against Australia and 44 against SA.

His first century at Edbaston came in a match where only Tendulkar passed 53 of the other 22 batsmen, he hit a double in England’s only ‘live’ ashes Test win of the 1990s against McGrath, Gillespie, Warne and Kasprowicz in 1997 (and another against the same attack only with Reiffel instead of Kasper in the same series with his side 3-50 in the second innings and trailing by 300), 106 off 318 to earn a draw against Walsh and Ambrose, 105 following on against Pollock, Donald, Klusener and Kallis, 146 against the same attack plus Hayward, 109 at 2-37 against Murali and Vaasy in Kandy, 106 as last man out against a fairly average NZ attack...... they were 2-0 when he came to the crease. 106 at 2-29 against Pollock/Ntini/Kallis, 103 at 2-35 chasing 280 against Cairns/Martin/Vettori.

Agree with everything re. Atherton but Hussain wasn’t a downhill skier
That double ton at Edgbaston was absolute top drawer stuff: 207 with 38 boundaries! I was always surprised that he never really followed it up; an average of 37.19 was definitely not commensurate with his talent.

Allan Lamb was another; one of the very best batsman to watch. It still amazes me that he had a test average of 36.09.
 

Plugger35

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#23
Alex Tudor was an underrated talent, quick bowler that was handy with the bat, then he got cleaned up by Brett Lee at the WACA and career over.

 

sobrave

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#25
Shane Watson, though I think people understand and appreciate him a lot more now that he’s retired.

Hauritz gets forgotten now that Lyon is the GOAT but he made valuable and often overlooked contributions.
hauritz is a stretch imo. honest battler that managed to scrounge a few games as we desperately searched for a spinner
 
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