Undervalued Cricketers

Remove this Banner Ad

Yoda_

Hall of Famer
May 6, 2007
31,508
16,414
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
Is Justin Langer undervalued?

He had a bloke called Hayden as an opening partner while a guy called Ponting followed him at 3.

Damian Martin from the same era rings to mine. Statistically in the top 10 batsmen of the modern era for Australia.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Log in to remove this ad.

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
28,868
30,794
AFL Club
Geelong
Is Justin Langer undervalued?

He had a bloke called Hayden as an opening partner while a guy called Ponting followed him at 3.

Damian Martin from the same era rings to mine. Statistically in the top 10 batsmen of the modern era for Australia.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Martyn had a knack for tough runs that didn’t fit the ‘talented but not dedicated’ narrative that surrounded his early career.
Superb player and simply amazing to watch
 

BronCrow

Club Legend
Sep 20, 2019
2,085
1,406
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool FC
2 names come to mind for me. Stuart Law and Michael Di Venuto. Great first class cricketers who should have played much more test cricket. Also, second the poster that mentioned Martin Love.
 

DaRick

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 12, 2008
6,040
5,244
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
(See avatar)
I do reckon that Greg Matthews is undervalued a touch. Sure, he's basically the bowler's Shane Watson in that he generally underperformed in his main discipline, and his personality comes off as a touch frivolous at times, but he was a gritty, effective lower-order batsman who could score runs against some formidable bowlers (vs Hadlee, for example).

The failings of Mitch Marsh the Test player have caused many to forget that he was a very good ODI player during that time.

Whatever Tim Paine's flaws as a tactician, the fact that he was thrust into the side as a wicketkeeper, and then the captaincy, and managed to stabilise the side somewhat after it fell apart during THAT SA tour while performing fairly well as a wicketkeeper-batsman, means that he deserves to be regarded more highly than he probably will be in the future. A lot of kids in the future would just see (at face value) a competent wicketkeeper-batsman and a flawed captain, but he was more valuable to the side than that given the context in which he was selected for those roles.

Peter Taylor was a middling Test bowler but a very effective ODI bowler. He was accurate, very consistent, and he flighted the ball enough to ask questions of batsmen who had to get the ball away quickly.

Gavin Robertson wasn't international-standard, but he acquitted himself surprisingly well in India, and was an effective (but very ugly) lower-order batsman.

Nayan Mongia was a handy lower-order batsman and a very good wicketkeeper. Even scored a century against us - opening the batting, no less - in 1996. Probably deserves to be better remembered, but he did get himself embroiled in match-fixing controversies in the late 1990's.

Kumar Dharmasena was a mediocre Test player, but an effective ODI player who played a significant role in Sri Lanka's 1996 WC triumph. Mind, his...mixed...fortunes as an umpire don't help him any.

Hashan Tillakaratne was a very good Test batsman for a long period of time. Could score tough runs in alien conditions.

EDIT: Saqlain Mushtaq has been mentioned a number of times (not undeservedly), but I'm not sure that Mushtaq Ahmed has. For a little while, he was a very good Test bowler because he learnt to spin the ball heavily in either direction while remaining quite accurate. In later years he seemed to lose that accuracy at Test level (probably suffering the yips and it wouldn't surprise me if the dysfunctional team culture in the late 1990s Pakistani side played a role), but he was always a fair weapon in ODI cricket due to his accuracy and variations. He played an important part during the 1992 WC final, too.

A variation on this theme
It seems to me that the talents of a number of 1990s ENG players were recognised by those who saw them play enough and/or knew them well enough, but seemingly not valued sufficiently by their own management, selectors or media. The likes of Graeme Hick, Mark Ramprakash, Devon Malcolm, Phil Tufnell and Andrew Caddick were clearly quite talented, but also needed to be managed quite carefully due to playing styles and/or temperamental flaws.

Instead, they were thrust into the side against extremely formidable opposition rather than being given a chance to ease themselves in against lesser opposition (Hick/Ramprakash), shunted in and out of the side regularly, used poorly from a tactical perspective (Malcolm was a shock bowler, not a workhorse; Tufnell was an attacking bowler who relied on flight, not the defensive stock bowler he was often forced to be) and contended with management that was at best inadequate (Keith Fletcher/Mike Atherton/Graeme Gooch) and at worst outright unsympathetic (Ray Illingworth).
 
Last edited:

the_interloper

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 1, 2006
18,394
17,762
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Martyn had a knack for tough runs that didn’t fit the ‘talented but not dedicated’ narrative that surrounded his early career.
Superb player and simply amazing to watch
Hard to imagine anyone copping it more for a bad shot as a young cricketer than Martyn against SA. Plus it's not like anyone else were making runs either, they barely made 100.
 

footyfan1978

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 27, 2014
29,364
31,844
spacetime
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
there are no other teams worthy
Hard to imagine anyone copping it more for a bad shot as a young cricketer than Martyn against SA. Plus it's not like anyone else were making runs either, they barely made 100.
He was batting with McDermott and scared to play a shot, that McDermott virtually had to do bulk of scoring himself.
 

the_interloper

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 1, 2006
18,394
17,762
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Vinnige Fannie never bowled better than that day
I must admit I thought he was a bit average before that (well you may look average next to Donald), but that was unbelievable.

Just looking at the scorecard now, Donald still got three and they were M Waugh, Border and Martyn. Sorry I should mention that Martyn wicket shouldn't count of course, he more or less kicked his own stumps over apparently.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Gough

Moderator
Sep 29, 2006
56,836
101,310
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I must admit I thought he was a bit average before that (well you may look average next to Donald), but that was unbelievable.

Just looking at the scorecard now, Donald still got three and they were M Waugh, Border and Martyn. Sorry I should mention that Martyn wicket shouldn't count of course, he more or less kicked his own stumps over apparently.
I saw him play a domestic one dayer under lights in Jo'burg one time and he was swinging the ball round corners.
 

footyfan1978

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 27, 2014
29,364
31,844
spacetime
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
there are no other teams worthy
And that would be the point, why was McDermott in and not one of the other recognised batsmen?
Nah, the point is about Martyn copping deserved sh*t is he last specialist bat and was not willing to take on the job of being the main scorer in that partnership. Basically McDermott had to do all the work himself. Just as he almost incredibly did a miracle, Martyn all of a sudden plays about the only attacking shot he tried in a long time and hit the ******* ball straight to cover fielding leaving poor Billy high and dry with bloody McGrath the last man in, FFS!!!
 

the_interloper

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 1, 2006
18,394
17,762
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Nah, the point is about Martyn copping deserved sh*t is he last specialist bat and was not willing to take on the job of being the main scorer in that partnership. Basically McDermott had to do all the work himself. Just as he almost incredibly did a miracle, Martyn all of a sudden plays about the only attacking shot he tried in a long time and hit the ******* ball straight to cover fielding leaving poor Billy high and dry with bloody McGrath the last man in, FFS!!!
Clearly he didn't bat well, I take your point. But he unfairly copped it when experienced players like Boon and Taylor didn't go on after getting starts, Slater, Border and Healy both made single figures. At least Martyn was able to hang around, should have been up to a recognised batsmen to be there with him.
 

footyfan1978

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 27, 2014
29,364
31,844
spacetime
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
there are no other teams worthy
Clearly he didn't bat well, I take your point. But he unfairly copped it
I do not think it was unfair at all.
He failed in his role big time when most needed. At that point in time banished from team was what he deserved.
Kudos to him for getting back years later and have a much better later part of his career.
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
28,868
30,794
AFL Club
Geelong
Nah, the point is about Martyn copping deserved sh*t is he last specialist bat and was not willing to take on the job of being the main scorer in that partnership. Basically McDermott had to do all the work himself. Just as he almost incredibly did a miracle, Martyn all of a sudden plays about the only attacking shot he tried in a long time and hit the ******* ball straight to cover fielding leaving poor Billy high and dry with bloody McGrath the last man in, FFS!!!
Which in essence proved why Martyn was afraid to play a shot. You’re a kid with half a dozen tests under your belt, David Boon, Mark Taylor, the Waughs, Border and Ian Healy have all f***ed up - what happens if you play an attacking shot and f*** up with them?

as it turns out, you have the bulk of your career put on ice.

so I don’t blame him for being a bit reticent - against two incredibly good bowlers - to play attacking shots
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
28,868
30,794
AFL Club
Geelong
I do not think it was unfair at all.
He failed in his role big time when most needed. At that point in time banished from team was what he deserved.
Kudos to him for getting back years later and have a much better later part of his career.
No it wasn’t.

imagine - not that it’s a test but still - if England banished Ben Stokes for being hit for four sixes by Carlos Brathwaite. Or Sri Lanka had banished Marvan Attapattu for six years for scoring 1 run in his first 6 innings.

I don’t see any circumstance in which spearing someone not just from the team, but from selectability, for 6/7 years can be justified on the basis of ‘hey, you didn’t carry us over the line in your first cutthroat test match situation in which all your more experienced teammates failed.

imagine a football match where the three key forwards all miss shots to put you in front, and then a kid has a shot from 50m out after the siren in his fifth game and misses and the selectors just delist him.
 

footyfan1978

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 27, 2014
29,364
31,844
spacetime
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
there are no other teams worthy
No it wasn’t.

imagine - not that it’s a test but still - if England banished Ben Stokes for being hit for four sixes by Carlos Brathwaite.
Spare me the T20 nonsense. This was Test cricket which i value highly on getting in team. He had no right staying in team on back of that sh*t showing in crucial moment. Having watched it live my anger was white hot at time and deserved what he got
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
28,868
30,794
AFL Club
Geelong
Spare me the T20 nonsense. This was Test cricket which i value highly on getting in team. He had no right staying in team on back of that sh*t showing in crucial moment. Having watched it live my anger was white hot at time and deserved what he got
No he didn’t. There’s no argument you can make to say that he did. Especially when you’ve just given it to
Him for being too defensive
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
28,868
30,794
AFL Club
Geelong
Almost exactly 12 months before that, chasing 180 at Adelaide to win the Frank worrell trophy for the first time in 15 years, at 3-60, an Australian batsman inexplicably tried to hit a back foot cover drive off curtly Ambrose, made no attempt to keep it down whatsoever, and spooned it at chest height straight to Keith Arthurton at cover.
Later that day West Indies won the match by a run, and retained the trophy.
That batsman was the recently recalled Steve Waugh.

wonder what would have happened if they treated him the same way they treated Martyn?
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
28,868
30,794
AFL Club
Geelong
Cricket is replete with players doing dumb things in pressure situations. Often forgotten in the wake of Dravid and Laxman that all australia had to do was survive the last day to take a 1-0 lead to the third and final test.
They were 1-100 at one stage.
Justin langer tried a paddle sweep needlessly and was caught at fine leg. A little while later with 2 hours to survive and 7 wickets in hand australia started the last session at 3-160.

imagine if Gilchrist had been treated like Martyn after he tried to sweep Tendulkar into the stands and got himself out?
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
28,868
30,794
AFL Club
Geelong
When australia finally conquered India it was largely on the back of Martyn, and likewise was their away win against probably the strongest Sri Lankan team of all time. Considering that between the 1992-93 FW Trophy and the 2005 Ashes, the only series australia lost were in India and Sri Lanka, might have been an idea to not have one of their best players of spin blacklisted for one poor shot
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad