Undervalued Cricketers

[sherb]

It's a bit rich, and highly unfair, to single out one person when your side is 1-51 chasing 117 to win and gets bowled out for 111.

 

[footyfan1978]

No he didn’t. There’s no argument you can make to say that he did. Especially when you’ve just given it to
Him for being too defensive

You sound like you never saw it live. No argument would change my view he deserved banishment for shocking performance in that partnership. Anyone watching at time horrified with his choke.

 

[PhatBoy]

You sound like you never saw it live. No argument would change my view he deserved banishment for shocking performance in that partnership. Anyone watching at time horrified with his choke.

I watched every ball of it.

anyone watching at the time was watching one link in a chain of chokes that australia was becoming more and more famous for and no one else that played an equal part in that chain was ever treated like Martyn.
Including the example I gave above.

if all players were treated like Martyn, by the end of the decade australia would have been fielding a batting line up of Richard Chee Quee, Noel Fielke, and Peter Goggin

 

[footyfan1978]

I watched every ball of it.

anyone watching at the time was watching one link in a chain of chokes that australia was becoming more and more famous for and no one else that played an equal part in that chain was ever treated like Martyn.
Including the example I gave above.

if all players were treated like Martyn, by the end of the decade australia would have been fielding a batting line up of Richard Chee Quee, Noel Fielke, and Peter Goggin

Ha ha Love the names but nothing can save Martyn from his right whack at that time. Made him a better cricketer years later to work his way through his mental fragility and flaws

 

[PhatBoy]

Ha ha Love the names but nothing can save Martyn from his right whack at that time. Made him a better cricketer years later to work his way through his mental fragility and flaws

Could have made him a better cricketer 6 months later if he was treated accordingly

 

[footyfan1978]

Could have made him a better cricketer 6 months later if he was treated accordingly

He was treated exactly how he should have been for that shit show.

 

[Gough]

That Australian side was a pretty old one when Martyn broke into it and he's always had a reputation as being his own man. Even at the time I remember wondering if he was scapegoated for his batting that day or the fact his face didn't quite fit at the time.

 

[PhatBoy]

That Australian side was a pretty old one when Martyn broke into it and he's always had a reputation as being his own man. Even at the time I remember wondering if he was scapegoated for his batting that day or the fact his face didn't quite fit at the time.

Either way it was unwarranted

 

[PhatBoy]

He was treated exactly how he should have been for that sh*t show.

No he wasn’t.

if he was Steve Waugh would have been treated the same way 12 months earlier.

Why wasn’t he

 

[footyfan1978]

No he wasn’t.

if he was Steve Waugh would have been treated the same way 12 months earlier.

Why wasn’t he

I'm not talking Steve Waugh. That is your issue on a player that had been around with credits on the board.
Martyn copped everything he deserved for probably the worst batting performance I seen from one of our specialist bats since the mid 80's. Just terrible as an Aussie supporter to see such a choke in those exact circumstances.

 

[PhatBoy]

I'm not talking Steve Waugh. That is your issue on a player that had been around with credits on the board.
Martyn copped everything he deserved for probably the worst batting performance I seen from one of our specialist bats since the mid 80's. Just terrible as an Aussie supporter to see such a choke in those exact circumstances.

It’s a consistency issue.

why was it ‘fair’ for Martyn to cop a punishment that other players didn’t for identical efforts

And the fact that you continue to simply ignore equally shit efforts from other players I find rather staggering

 

[footyfan1978]

It’s a consistency issue.

why was it ‘fair’ for Martyn to cop a punishment that other players didn’t for identical efforts

There is no identical efforts. That just your own take, certainly not one I accept at all as reality at time. Martyn is only specialist bat of our team around that time I seen **** up so badly when he let tailender act like the real batsmen in such a partnership. Unforgiveable. I never been more angry at one of our batsmen in that period. He rightly got banished big time.

 

[PhatBoy]

There is no identical efforts. That just your own take, certainly not one I accept at all as reality at time. Martyn is only specialist bat of our team around that time I seen fu** up so badly when he let tailender act like the real batsmen in such a partnership. Unforgiveable. I never been more angry at one of our batsmen in that period. He rightly got banished big time.

How isn’t there?

every bad shot played in a chase that we choked is an identical effort.

 

[footyfan1978]

How isn’t there?

There is batting to the circumstances. You the last specialist bat, McGrath is in next, which you not want to get to. McDermott half decent tailender but you should still be taking as much as strike as possible and take responsibility in circumstances to get bulk of runs yourself. Instead he left it to McDemott to do that as he showed no balls himself in circumstances to take on role he should of. Massive choke like never seen in that period.
Just spare me the nonsense he should be easily forgiven for such a pathetic showing.
I still get angry thinking of how he left it to McDermott and then to do what he did just ****ing unforgiveable.

 

[PhatBoy]

I find this staggering I really do.
In no particular order I’ve seen:

Steve Waugh play a lofted back foot cover drive in a small run chase and get caught.

steve Waugh bowl a waste high full toss on the last ball of an ODI and get hit for six to throw away a win and cop a tie

Shane Warne drop Brian lara with a handful of runs to defend in Bridgetown

any number of seasoned batsmen throw their wicket away in India in 2001

Australia forfeit a Boxing Day test to Dean Headley of all people chasing 120 or so

basically an entire 11 go to water in the field against Stokes two years ago

Clarke Ponting Haddin and Khawaja all throw their wicket away in one session against NZ to lose a test from 1/100 chasing 230.

the entire team bowled out for 47 an hour after bowling South Africa out for under 100.



if a young player in his second summer of international cricket freezing in the headlights against Donald and De Villiers is the most despicable moment you’ve seen from an Australian batsman, when all context and situation are applied, I would suggest you haven’t really watched much cricket at all (and I know that you have)

 

[PhatBoy]

There is batting to the circumstances. You the last specialist bat, McGrath is in next, which you not want to get to. McDermott half decent tailender but you should still be taking as much as strike as possible and take responsibility in circumstances to get bulk of runs yourself. Instead he left it to McDemott to do that as he showed no balls himself in circumstances to take on role he should of. Massive choke like never seen in that period.
Just spare me the nonsense he should be easily forgiven for such a pathetic showing.
I still get angry thinking of how he left it to McDermott and then to do what he did just ******* unforgiveable.

It’s not nonsense. It’s reality. McDermott himself had literally had more experience in guiding a chase - he’d done it 12 months earlier when the top 6 shit their pants as well, remember?
It’s a game of cricket - just because you WANT to do something doesn’t mean you will be able to do it, and therefore it’s not unforgivable at all

What’s less forgivable - being exposed to that situation for the first time and screwing up, or having 7-8 years worth of experience under your belt and STILL screwing it up?

All it reads like, considering the sheer volume of infamous Australian disasters like like that one, is that you had an irrational dislike for Damien Martyn

 

[PhatBoy]

To give this some perspective - and remember I’m not trying to say that YOU think this way but a lot of people do - Mohammad Amir DELIBERATELY tried to fail and was given an official sentence that was about the same length as Martyn’s unofficial one and because of his youth and lack of experience they had sympathy for him

 

[footyfan1978]

It’s not nonsense. It’s reality. McDermott himself had literally had more experience in guiding a chase

It is not his role and any other middle order or top order bat I seen for us has taken on the role in such circumstanes. I do not remember any others of that period completely leaving it to the tailender like Martyn did. ****ing pathetic and nothing over 25 years later changes the reality of how badly he ****ed up then. You are way too easy on him and thankfully selectors were not.

 

[PhatBoy]

It is not his role and any other middle order or top order bat I seen for us has taken on the role in such circumstanes. I do not remember any others of that period completely leaving it to the tailender like Martyn did. ******* pathetic and nothing over 25 years later changes the reality of how badly he f’ed up then. You are way too easy on him and thankfully selectors were not.

And it’s no one’s role to bat properly in the absence of the other 5 specialist batsmen either but that didn’t seem to matter

Again, if the selectors had the same attitude to Steve Waugh, australia wouldn’t have won the FW trophy in 1995

 

[PhatBoy]

What exactly do you think he learned from being dropped?

nothing that being dropped for the rest of the year wouldn’t have taught him, I’d imagine.

 

[footyfan1978]

You are kidding yourself.
It's 8 wickets down and ****ing McGrath in next. Martyn should have taken on the task to get the runs and take bulk of strike. He did neither and shirked the role he should have adopted in those circumstances. Completely terrible choice in circumstances.

 

[PhatBoy]

You are kidding yourself.
It's 8 wickets down and ******* McGrath in next. Martyn should have taken on the task to get the runs and take bulk of strike. He did neither and shirked the role he should have adopted in those circumstances. Completely terrible choice in circumstances.

And?

so what about the million other **** ups by established batsmen in similar circumstances?

either the punishment applied to Martyn was perfect and every other player that’s done something similar over the years dodged a bullet, or it was too harsh. Either way your view is wildly inconsistent.


why is it that Martyn got an appropriate level of treatment but Waugh - who had been in the international set up for 7 years mind you - didnt, for an equally inexplicable brain explosion a year earlier?

 

[sherb]

You are kidding yourself.
It's 8 wickets down and ******* McGrath in next. Martyn should have taken on the task to get the runs and take bulk of strike. He did neither and shirked the role he should have adopted in those circumstances. Completely terrible choice in circumstances.

I'm sorry, but it is ridiculous to point the finger at one person when the side was 1-51 chasing 117 and lost.

 

[footyfan1978]

And?

so what about the million other fu** ups by established batsmen in similar circumstances?

Never seen such ****s like that in that period when 8 wickets down. You kidding yourself to think others in same period did the same with such a tailender.
Remember Border brilliant effort with Thomson the decade before where he did what a middle order bat should do and try to milk the strike and get most of runs at same time. Martyn did everything wrong and opposite to what you should and the most complete **** up I ever seen in similar circumstances.

 

[footyfan1978]

I'm sorry, but it is ridiculous to point the finger at one person when the side was 1-51 chasing 117 and lost.

I'm not pointing the finger only at him but there nobody deserved dropping more than him right then and there. It was horrific what he done.