Unpopular Basketball Opinions

fidstar

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Saying Wilt is a lot more athletic than LeBron is just wrong. LeBron might just be the perfect human physical specimen in any sport in any era.

I love how you talk about "how much more contact there was back in the 60s". Did you watch the Game 7? They barely even touched each other. And that's Game 7 of the NBA FINALS!

Guys were barely hitting the rim on jump shots from 12 feet.

It was an amateur league back in the 60s. Improved a lot in the 70s. And then took an even bigger step in the 80s. The 'general' improvement since the 80s isn't as big from decade to decade, but the step between the 60s and 80s is huge.

There's nothing wrong with that fwiw. It's how all sports go. People weren't breaking 10 seconds in the 100m run back in the 60s. Over time, things improve.
 

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fidstar

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I also find it unusual that you've ripped Shaq for his free throw percentage, yet have still called Wilt the GOAT despite him being even worse.
 

Knightmare

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Saying Wilt is a lot more athletic than LeBron is just wrong. LeBron might just be the perfect human physical specimen in any sport in any era.

I love how you talk about "how much more contact there was back in the 60s". Did you watch the Game 7? They barely even touched each other. And that's Game 7 of the NBA FINALS!

Guys were barely hitting the rim on jump shots from 12 feet.

It was an amateur league back in the 60s. Improved a lot in the 70s. And then took an even bigger step in the 80s. The 'general' improvement since the 80s isn't as big from decade to decade, but the step between the 60s and 80s is huge.

There's nothing wrong with that fwiw. It's how all sports go. People weren't breaking 10 seconds in the 100m run back in the 60s. Over time, things improve.
Regarding Wilt v LeBron.

Wilt was a greater physical specimen in almost every category. There is no category that LeBron rates favourably to Wilt.

Wilt bench pressed 600lbs - the guy is so strong he can lift guys one arms, dunk the ball and have the ball break your foot on the way down, dislocate arms with the strength he could block shots. He shot puts 56 feet. LeBron's highest max bench press (one rep) that I'm aware of is 396lbs to give a strength comparison.

Wilt had a vertical of at least 46 inches (some claim 48 inches) - he could touch the top of the backboard (13 inch max reach which is the same height as the top of the backboard) and jumps so high and was so long and co-ordinated that he didn't even need to block shots, he could catch the ball on the way up - he could dunk from three feet behind the free throw line. He could high jump over 6'6 1/4 without any practice. - This of course is a higher vertical to LeBron's peak of 44 inch vertical.

Wilt had the endurance to play 48.5 minutes in a season, during a time where the pace and the contact was much greater, leading to much greater wear and tear. LeBron while a beast to play as many minutes as he does in year 15 now does, has never played as many minutes per game as Wilt did even in his final season, and you have to remember, LeBron gives no effort on the defensive end anymore and hasn't for several years now unless it's late in the game and he is required to, whereas Wilt by contrast while he was asked to reduce his involvement offensively played defensive player of the year standard defense every year throughout his career so his conditioning is on another level by contrast to LeBron.

Even against Magic, Bernard King, James Worthy, Byron Scott and A.J. Green years after Wilt retired, he played a pickup game and blocked every shot at the age of 43. Made the volleyball hall of fame after he retired from the NBA for his dominant volleyball play. Even as a 50 year old he was still being recruited by NBA teams to make a comeback to the NBA

LeBron isn't even as quick as Wilt. Wilt could run 100 yards in 10.9 seconds and 440 yards (400m) in 49 seconds. LeBron by contrast has 100m times of 11.58 seconds. I'm not aware of LeBron recording a 200m or 400m time, but it would have been worse than 20.9 over 200m and 49 seconds recorded by Wilt if he did. Even over 40 yards LeBron isn't as quick with Wilt recording 4.4 seconds to LeBron's 4.6 seconds.

And that's before considering Wilt's advantageous dimensions - 7'1 without shoes, 7'8 wingspan, 9'6 standing reach, 9.5" hand length, 11.5" hand spread and a 13' inch max reach (top of backboard height). LeBron obviously doesn't measure up to that.

Wilt is the greatest physical specimen in NBA history and it's not even close. The likes of John Wall, Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose before his run with injuries all have claims to be faster than Wilt. Otherwise it would be difficult to find a single athletic category any basketball player past or present would figure favourably to Wilt. There are some who are taller, and few who are as long or marginally longer.

Interestingly, Bill Russell has genuine claims as a better athlete than LeBron. 49.6 seconds over 440 yards/400m. Interestingly Russell had a greater long jump than Wilt with 23 feet, 7 inches to Wilt's 22 feet 8 inches. Russell also had a 7'4 arm span so despite not being a 7 footer, his length in addition to his timing on his jumps and blocking technique made him so special. I'd love to know what his short distance times are and vertical as he wouldn't have been far behind Wilt and would have had comparable numbers to LeBron outside of lifting numbers.
 

Knightmare

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I also find it unusual that you've ripped Shaq for his free throw percentage, yet have still called Wilt the GOAT despite him being even worse.
I ripped Shaq for defence in my comparison to Hakeem who in the last 30 years is one of the greatest bigs defensively while also being one of the most exceptional on the offensive end.

In a comparison to Hakeem his FT%, mid range game and post moves were also a tier below. Though of the two, Shaq I stated I slightly favour on offense of the two.

Free throws was Wilt's one weak area and other than the likes of Ben Wallace, Andre Drummond (prior to this season) and DeAndre Jordan there wouldn't be many who are worse from the free throw line than Wilt. Lonzo Ball maybe? :p

It's fascinating with Wilt that he couldn't shoot free throws, as he had an unstoppable fall-away and fade-away jumpers and could swish it from three point range, half court, even hook shots from three point range. But he couldn't shoot free throws.

Wilt's free throw issues are effectively explained in The Curious Case of Wilt Chamberlain's Free Throws (Wilt Chamberlain archive on youtube).
 

fidstar

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Wilt was a greater physical specimen in almost every category. There is no category that LeBron rates favourably to Wilt.

Wilt bench pressed 600lbs....

Dunk the ball and have the ball break your foot on the way down...

Dislocate arms with the strength he could block shots...

Wilt had a vertical of at least 46 inches (some claim 48 inches)...

He could touch the top of the backboard...

Jumps so high and was so long and co-ordinated that he didn't even need to block shots, he could catch the ball on the way up...

He could dunk from three feet behind the free throw line...

He could high jump over 6'6 1/4 without any practice....

During a time where the pace and the contact was much greater...

Even against Magic, Bernard King, James Worthy, Byron Scott and A.J. Green years after Wilt retired, he played a pickup game and blocked every shot at the age of 43...

Even as a 50 year old he was still being recruited by NBA teams to make a comeback to the NBA...

LeBron isn't even as quick as Wilt. Wilt could run 100 yards in 10.9 seconds and 440 yards (400m) in 49 seconds...
Wow. Some great urban legends there. And no one can say otherwise, because there's no record of it.

I'm quite amazed that he blocked EVERY shot as well. Amazing.

Made the volleyball hall of fame after he retired from the NBA for his dominant volleyball play.
And I kept this one separate for a simple reason. It's just 100% wrong. He made it because of his promotional side of things and help developing a new league. Not his play.
 

fidstar

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It's fascinating with Wilt that he couldn't shoot free throws, as he had an unstoppable fall-away and fade-away jumpers and could swish it from three point range, half court, even hook shots from three point range. But he couldn't shoot free throws.
It's not that fascinating because all those other things you said aren't true. I mean he could do it, because even I can do it, but he can't do it on a regular basis.

Wilt benefits from the lack of tv coverage and the passing of time.
 

Knightmare

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It's not that fascinating because all those other things you said aren't true. I mean he could do it, because even I can do it, but he can't do it on a regular basis.

Wilt benefits from the lack of tv coverage and the passing of time.
A common excuse many come up with to protect the basketball players from 1980 onwards from the reality of how much greater some of the ball players from pre 1980 were.

You also forgot that he killed a mountain lion and ****** 10k women.
The unfortunate hyperbole is Wilt's claim to have slept with 20k women. Though the mountain lion part is a new one to me.

The basketball stuff in each case has credible sources. Either actual recorded data, coaches, basketball players or celebrities from Wilt's time rather than Wilt himself blabbing - and he did everyone will admit have a big mouth and loved talking about himself favourably much of the time.

I strongly suggest watching the Wilt Chamberlain Scouting Video (Most Dominant Player Ever) which can be found in the Wilt Chamberlain archive on youtube for evidence and a lot of this information.
 

fidstar

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A common excuse many come up with to protect the basketball players from 1980 onwards from the reality of how much greater some of the ball players from pre 1980 were.
It actually works the other way. Olds forget the bad, and only remember the good.

No one thinks MJ ever missed a big shot now.
 

fidstar

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World record for bench press was 580 pounds in 1972. Wilt was amazing.

Remember the time he killed Hitler?
 

Knightmare

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World record for bench press was 580 pounds in 1972. Wilt was amazing.

Remember the time he killed Hitler?
In college Wilt was doing a 500lbs bench press.

He got much stronger during his playing days. All speculation is that he lifted during his peak between 550lbs and 600lbs. Wilt may well have had a greater bench press than any other recorded lift at that time. That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone aware of what he could do.

Even beyond the Wilt Chamberlain archive, check out The Strength of Wilt Chamberlain - Part One and The Strength of Wilt Chamberlain - Part Two by
jaranarm on youtube for more accounts of how next level his strength was - including accounts from past coaches and players. There are too many stories from too diverse a range of people for his achievements to be make-believe.
 

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fidstar

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In college Wilt was doing a 500lbs bench press.

He got much stronger during his playing days. All speculation is that he lifted during his peak between 550lbs and 600lbs. Wilt may well have had a greater bench press than any other recorded lift at that time. That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone aware of what he could do.

Even beyond the Wilt Chamberlain archive, check out The Strength of Wilt Chamberlain - Part One and The Strength of Wilt Chamberlain - Part Two by
jaranarm on youtube for more accounts of how next level his strength was - including accounts from past coaches and players. There are too many stories from too diverse a range of people for his achievements to be make-believe.
Somehow I don't think string arm Wilt was bench pressing the same as guys that strength trained for it 24/7.

You're sort of proving my point when you use the word "speculation".

I mean "skyhooking 3s"? Come on man.

You sound like grandpa Simpson.
 

Knightmare

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Somehow I don't think string arm Wilt was bench pressing the same as guys that strength trained for it 24/7.

You're sort of proving my point when you use the word "speculation".

I mean "skyhooking 3s"? Come on man.

You sound like grandpa Simpson.
Weight lifting wasn't a big deal in the 70s and grew in popularity later.

With Wilt he achieved his greatest strength post-career so I wouldn't be discounting the possibility that his 600lbs bench press came in his 40s.

To see Wilt swishing 3 point hook shots look up "Wilt Chamberlain swishes four 3-point hook shots in a row" - Wilt Chamberlain Archive (Youtube).
 

The_Game_1981

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It’s not in the least bit embarrassing or shameful to be dunked on/posterised.
I've been dunked on. It was more painful than embarrassing. I was running back on defence trying to get in front of a guy on a fastbreak and managed to do so but only after he'd taken off for the dunk and couldn't get out of his way, as he came down from finishing the dunk I coped an elbow in the temple and a concussion.

Definitely not a highlight for me.
 
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NorthernLights

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I've been dunked on. It was more painful than embarrassing. I was running back on defence trying to get in front of a guy on a fastbreak and managed to do so but only after head taken off for the dunk and couldn't get out of his way, as he came down from finishing the dunk I coped an elbow in the temple and a concussion.

Definitely not a highlight for me.
Ouch.

It definitely takes balls, very easy to just get out of the way like many do. The Brandon Knights of the world deserve more props and less laughs thrown their way for mine.
 

jod23

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seeing benny simmons slice and dice his way through defences is great. got me thinking, why is it that in the nba there's so much space on the floor. contrast that with the nbl where there's no room to maneouvere!
Isnt it because the NBL still uses zone defenses when in the NBA, it more man on man. A lot of pistol action up top, ball movement, cutting and moving. It opens up the court.

You can afford to play zone in the NBL cos there are very little great shooters in the NBL. You cant do that in the NBA as almost every player can knock down three's.
 

blackcat

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Ben Simmons jumpshot is broken

a wise person once told me that, a pity he ripped it off a meme from something like deadspin or grantland or maxK and StephenA

Ben Simmons, imo, he is like an elevator, descending. He tries to rise like Lebron, but when he shoots from 17feet and further, he is shooting on the downward because he does not have the lift of LBJ

Zgope1

dave andersen disabused those idiots on SEN morning, Lyon and Watson. He said he could not shoot in his first years as a pro neither.

This must be seen thru a John Nash #GameTheory lens. BS was never the shooting guard playing from 22feet and in since he was 10. Then when he started getting the ball from 15feet and further, in his teenage years, at Keilor or Newcastle whereever he played high-level VBL. He never got the ball starting from 22 feet as a spot up shooter, he may well have had it in the pocket in triple-threat. But his first instinct to put it on the floor and riven the defense and p'raps kick to an open shooter. His game instinct was never developed to look at the ring from 17feet and out in his jnr years, because he was so dominant as a face up penetrator, drive and dish, kick it to the open man when D collapses on him, or shoot from within 10 with the dinky floaters and hooks.

Ofcourse he shot open j's and 3s from our perimeter in his junior years. I am talking proportionally, pro rata. Significant majority of opportunities went to avenues I explained in above^ para.

You can teach a pavlov dog to shoot. He will be above 75%, nigh 80% from line. And 35% from three at minimum.

Also, Joe Ingles said he could not shoot neither in his first years out of AIS.

The knock on Brett Maher coming out of AIS, "can't shoot", aka Scott Muller. well... where did Maher finish as NBL records? Top few, or top, three point shooter (quantum). Australian boomers captain.

Pavlov dog, come on down.
 
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jod23

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Everyone talks about Russel being this man mountain in the middle. Dude was 6 foot 9.

I have no issues with picking Hakeem. Peak Shaq was a lot more dominate though. He was unstoppable.
Bill Russel is confusing.



6'9 looks right when he's standing next to Lebron who is listed at 6'8. Yet here he is with Garnett who is listed at 7'0.



Now he looks closer to 7'0??

Here he is with Tim Duncan who is listed at 6'11 or 7'0.



Who know how tall Russell is haha.

Also it's dominant, not dominate.
 
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