Unpopular Carlton Opinions

LemmingMaster

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Posts
9,702
Likes
3,231
Location
Perth, Australia
AFL Club
Carlton
1. We are highly likely to finish bottom 3.
2. We could come to massively regret the live trade we completed.
3. Bolton needs some more help around him to clearly define the team concept. It looked like our defensive structures from the forwards, midfield and backline was a mess.
4. Lang and Kennedy are looking closer to busts than helpful players.
5. We lack a little speed in our team and need to address this in the coming years.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

TerryWallet

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Posts
10,466
Likes
22,185
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
1. We are highly likely to finish bottom 3.
2. We could come to massively regret the live trade we completed.
3. Bolton needs some more help around him to clearly define the team concept. It looked like our defensive structures from the forwards, midfield and backline was a mess.
4. Lang and Kennedy are looking closer to busts than helpful players.
5. We lack a little speed in our team and need to address this in the coming years.
1. I think we are highly likely to finish bottom 6. It is far to narrow to say highly likely bottom 3 imo.
2. Yes we could. But equally, we may not.
3. Yes he does. Barker as Head of Strategy was his usual fail imo. He and Bolton had a poor year stategy wise. Injuries killed us as we all know, but their strategy year was still poor. Barker has now been removed from Strategy. Dunno who is replacing him exactly, maybe Bolton is taking ownership.
4. Agree with Lang. Disagree with Kennedy. Lang, Cunningham, Garlett and maybe Pickett are looking like the busts imo. Which is a worry leading into Point 5 ie pace.
5. Yes we do.
 

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
11,799
Likes
24,092
Location
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
I am certain of one point

5. Our midfield is one-paced.

While we have Dow and Fisher, who certainly have speed/bust, others need to find continuity to balance the shortfall

Lang, Garlett, Pickett, Cuningham, 2 or 3 of these guys, need to come on
 

F the Rest

Club Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Posts
2,812
Likes
6,015
Location
The house that SOS built
AFL Club
Carlton
Being competitive is a given, a non-negotiable. I see merit in young players developing naturally in the VFL, especially 1st/2nd year players

But, in 2019, I would rather win 6-7 games with a core group of young players, with just a sprinkling of senior players, than win 9-10 with our most senior side.

If, a senior player, is considerably ahead of his younger counterpart, so be it, but if it is marginal, I would rather see the younger player selected.
I'm the opposite. Would rather we pick our best team to win every week and let young guys who aren't ready play and importantly WIN together in the 2s.
 

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
11,799
Likes
24,092
Location
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
I'm the opposite. Would rather we pick our best team to win every week and let young guys who aren't ready play and importantly WIN together in the 2s.
I don't disagree with that, it is why I stated that if a senior player is considerably ahead of one of the younger guys, pick the senior player, but it is only marginal, select youth
 

TerryWallet

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Posts
10,466
Likes
22,185
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
I am certain of one point

5. Our midfield is one-paced.

While we have Dow and Fisher, who certainly have speed/bust, others need to find continuity to balance the shortfall

Lang, Garlett, Pickett, Cuningham, 2 or 3 of these guys, need to come on
These players, plus Polson, have very important years coming up. I'm not confident on any of them. Hopeful, but not confident.

I'm rapt with the core of our young list now. It is pretty complete now after adding Walsh. Now that our young core is in place, for the next 2 years we add speed, speed, speed imo.

I know you wanted to somehow add Smith this year, and i would have preferred RCD to Stocker. Both of us for added speed reasons largely. But i'm very happy with what we've assembled now as core and i know you are too.

Speed is the logical last component to add. That's the next 2 years trade/draft. Phase 3 if you like.
 

F the Rest

Club Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Posts
2,812
Likes
6,015
Location
The house that SOS built
AFL Club
Carlton
I don't disagree with that, it is why I stated that if a senior player is considerably ahead of one of the younger guys, pick the senior player, but it is only marginal, select youth
I think it's more about team wide demographics than individuals, it doesn't matter how talented the young players are if there's too many as a proportion of the 22. So if Bugg and Polson/Leboois are roughly equivalent, but we already have x amount of under-21s, then you go with the guy in the physically mature age group.

That being said - you're probably right that we're arguing for the same thing overall.
 

Metalcrusher

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Posts
6,039
Likes
13,877
Location
Kalgoorlie
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Blackburn United EPL ... sorta
I am certain of one point

5. Our midfield is one-paced.

While we have Dow and Fisher, who certainly have speed/bust, others need to find continuity to balance the shortfall

Lang, Garlett, Pickett, Cuningham, 2 or 3 of these guys, need to come on
3 of the 4 you mentioned I have very slim hopes for …..
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

LemmingMaster

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Posts
9,702
Likes
3,231
Location
Perth, Australia
AFL Club
Carlton
1. I think we are highly likely to finish bottom 6. It is far to narrow to say highly likely bottom 3 imo.
2. Yes we could. But equally, we may not.
3. Yes he does. Barker as Head of Strategy was his usual fail imo. He and Bolton had a poor year stategy wise. Injuries killed us as we all know, but their strategy year was still poor. Barker has now been removed from Strategy. Dunno who is replacing him exactly, maybe Bolton is taking ownership.
4. Agree with Lang. Disagree with Kennedy. Lang, Cunningham, Garlett and maybe Pickett are looking like the busts imo. Which is a worry leading into Point 5 ie pace.
5. Yes we do.
1. GCS and Saints are the only two teams I think we may pass. Long shots are Brisbane, after that point, someone needs to implode.

2. I agree maybe not, but my gut instinct is more on the regret than happiness. Still hearing Stocker ranked 6th on our list is also interesting.

3. Good to see a change in strategy direction.

4. I agree with all your busts. Just Kennedy's lack of pace and I am not sure he is an amazing inside midfielder, so his chances are limited.
 

Alphonse_

Senior List
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Posts
218
Likes
453
AFL Club
Carlton
I think we do a lot better than pundits and (seemingly) most fans here think. 10 wins is not out of the question, given some (touch wood) luck.. The return of Docherty, Fisher, another pre season and maturity for prodigious talents Paddy Dow and Lachie O'Brien, put in Sam 'Jelwood Jnr' Walsh, McGovern, Fasolo, Setterfield (hopefully injury free) and gosh darn it, we have a cracking team going fowards (provided football gods give us a kinder bunch of injuries)

Of course it may not happen in 2019, but when our young lads (and vets) do finally gel and click and make it work, our surge up the ladder will be faster and more unexpectedly wonderful than anyone could hope.

And Brendon Bolton is the right man to steer this amazing group of young men going fowards. I honestly don't think Charlie Curnow would have shown as much development and growth as a player and person generally under Bolts, as he would say Ross Lyon or Alan Richardson.

We have the right person for the coaching job. And our patience will soon pay off (if not in 19, than 2020)

There's nothing wrong about being positive or excited for season 2019. There is actually solid foundations for being optimistic next year, unlike previous 'false dawns' (IE The MM era).
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2016
Posts
1,209
Likes
1,899
AFL Club
Carlton
I think the unpopular accusation that you can point at Carlton is that we have a lot of injury prone players on our list: Kruezer, Marchbank, Pickett, Setterfield, Garlett, Plowman (debatable), Williamson, Fasolo, Phillips, Lobbe, and Thomas.

We also have a handful that cant quite do a full pre-season or remain held back: Cuningham, SPS, Kennedy, Lang, Mckay (debatable).

Some of these have been recruited at a cheap rate due to injury, and accountability of success or failure lies with SoS.

Our success does depend on a few conditions:
  • Williamson coming good and being what we expect (if not, then the loss of byrne and a failing Williamson will hurt us until we re-draft)
  • SPS can train unhindered and get 100% fit from here on.
  • Marchbank can stay on the park for full seasons
  • Setterfield starts playing consistent seasons
  • Kennedy gets it together and plays unfettered like 2018. (maybe he shouldnt be listed here as he is less of on injury prone player)
  • Mckay doesnt return to missing games for whatever reason (growth spurts)
Some of the others are periphery to our needs but there is some key players in there as well...and midfielders which are key.

If some of the key names go backwards we are 3/4 players short of a flag list again. If they go well, we are only 1-2 more drafts away from being in a great position list wise.

The unpopular bit is that SoS has bought into the bargain basement player and Carlton are half full of 'injury risk players'.

Obviously, i'm crossing my fingers, legs, eyes...the ******* lot that these players recover and perform.
 

LemmingMaster

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Posts
9,702
Likes
3,231
Location
Perth, Australia
AFL Club
Carlton
I think we do a lot better than pundits and (seemingly) most fans here think. 10 wins is not out of the question, given some (touch wood) luck.. The return of Docherty, Fisher, another pre season and maturity for prodigious talents Paddy Dow and Lachie O'Brien, put in Sam 'Jelwood Jnr' Walsh, McGovern, Fasolo, Setterfield (hopefully injury free) and gosh darn it, we have a cracking team going fowards (provided football gods give us a kinder bunch of injuries)

Of course it may not happen in 2019, but when our young lads (and vets) do finally gel and click and make it work, our surge up the ladder will be faster and more unexpectedly wonderful than anyone could hope.

And Brendon Bolton is the right man to steer this amazing group of young men going fowards. I honestly don't think Charlie Curnow would have shown as much development and growth as a player and person generally under Bolts, as he would say Ross Lyon or Alan Richardson.

We have the right person for the coaching job. And our patience will soon pay off (if not in 19, than 2020)

There's nothing wrong about being positive or excited for season 2019. There is actually solid foundations for being optimistic next year, unlike previous 'false dawns' (IE The MM era).
10 wins this season, mate, give me your dealer number, he has next level product on his hands.

GWS, Brisbane, Melbourne... All teams that have had a similar rebuild to us and they've not gone from 2 wins to 10 wins, but somehow we are going to win 8 more games next season and probably increase our percentage by 30-40ppg... I struggle to see that happening, even in my wettest dreams.
 

footyfan78

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Posts
17,266
Likes
16,634
Location
spacetime
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
there are no other teams worthy
The unpopular bit is that SoS has bought into the bargain basement player and Carlton are half full of 'injury risk players'.

Obviously, i'm crossing my fingers, legs, eyes...the ******* lot that these players recover and perform.
It is probably accurate though. But you only get one first round pick each draft. You do not get a zillion of them all at once like Gold Coast and GWS did so if you got a list to build virtually from scratch like SOS did at end of 2015, some of talent you get in door has to be bargain basement and injury risky players. Cannot see any other way of getting as much talent as we got in since 2015 than the path we are on. It is incredible when we had no extra draft picks. Not seen any other club be this ballsy. Being the first club to take the ballsy approach we did on draft night, just topped it all off for me. Love what we doing.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2016
Posts
1,209
Likes
1,899
AFL Club
Carlton
10 wins this season, mate, give me your dealer number, he has next level product on his hands.

GWS, Brisbane, Melbourne... All teams that have had a similar rebuild to us and they've not gone from 2 wins to 10 wins, but somehow we are going to win 8 more games next season and probably increase our percentage by 30-40ppg... I struggle to see that happening, even in my wettest dreams.
2017 we won 6 games. We are in a much better spot list wise than 2017. 10 wins is unlikely but not a pipe dream.

Cant highlight enough that 2018 was injury and setback Armageddon. Everything went wrong.

Bit of luck this year and the wins could come. SOS and Carlton have even bet this is the case with the Stocker trade.

Get excited.
 

Nori

Club Legend
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Posts
1,104
Likes
2,051
AFL Club
Carlton
Our forwards will not be able to kick big scores until our ball movement from turnovers and our subsequent delivery by foot into the forward line takes a huge step forward.

Burst speed is part of this and currently we are dependent on a large group of unproven players that will need to massively improve for Carlton to be consistently competitive, i.e. Polson, Lang, Pickett, Garlett, Lebois, Williamson, Fasolo and Cuningham. Unfortunately these players are also the ones with the biggest question marks over their futures. We talk about Cripps needing support, but Murphy is the only proven player that can break lines with his dash forward of centre. He needs the support of another 2-3 quicks, so opposition teams can’t just concentrate on limiting Murphy’s influence.

If Carlton don’t win early games next year it’s probably going to be another long and largely unsuccessful season. If however the team can get some early wins on the board and feed off the youngsters’ enthusiasm we might see a huge improvement in both team and individual performances.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2016
Posts
1,209
Likes
1,899
AFL Club
Carlton
interesting observation. he had 15 possessions 7 tackles and two goals in his last game as a small forward in a game in which we got flogged. And clearly he has no capacity to improve.
It all comes down to point of view. I personally saw that game as a dead training drill game with no pressure as it was a walkover. In previous games I saw him give away 50 metres dumb penalties, miss tackles and run to wrong position. I haven’t just decided to take a stand against him, just what I have seen on field. When he has tackled, he has sometimes just bounced off ineffectively.

2019 is another season and yes he can improve quite a bit more. I just don’t have him anywhere near our best 22. Got games in 2018 due injuries, garlets shoulder etc.

People cite improvement and stats...I return that with boekhorst. He got better too but is no where near AFL class.
 

BigFrizz36

Club Legend
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Posts
1,167
Likes
2,517
AFL Club
Carlton
It all comes down to point of view. I personally saw that game as a dead training drill game with no pressure as it was a walkover. In previous games I saw him give away 50 metres dumb penalties, miss tackles and run to wrong position. I haven’t just decided to take a stand against him, just what I have seen on field. When he has tackled, he has sometimes just bounced off ineffectively.

2019 is another season and yes he can improve quite a bit more. I just don’t have him anywhere near our best 22. Got games in 2018 due injuries, garlets shoulder etc.

People cite improvement and stats...I return that with boekhorst. He got better too but is no where near AFL class.
From the first time that I saw him play I just thought that he had something that not many have - almost a compulsion to find a way get better and to try and win every competition. I think that the coaches can see it to. Not sure where it will take him but I think that if he doesn't make it it surely won't be for lack of trying.
 

Nori

Club Legend
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Posts
1,104
Likes
2,051
AFL Club
Carlton
2017 we won 6 games. We are in a much better spot list wise than 2017. 10 wins is unlikely but not a pipe dream.

Cant highlight enough that 2018 was injury and setback Armageddon. Everything went wrong.

Bit of luck this year and the wins could come. SOS and Carlton have even bet this is the case with the Stocker trade.

Get excited.
I really hope that you are right but one glaring commonality 2019 will have with 2018 is a largely young and inexperienced list.
 
Top Bottom