Unsack ratts

[bigblue23]

It's very selective to argue for the sacking of a coach based on only part of that coach's coaching period, ie. the last 5 or 6 weeks (in any event, is the team's performance the coach's fault or the players, or both?)

You need to take Ratten's entire Carlton coaching record:

• We were a "bad" last in 2007 when Ratt's took over.
• In 2009 we played finals with a young side (probably the youngest finals' side that year). This team was a mix of high & low draft picks. Teams that usually win premierships are far more mature than the Carlton list
• This year, it looks like we'll play finals again, after many wrote Carlton off pre-season because of the Fev trade. Many said we'd be the big loser of 2010. We've had good wins over the Saints & Cats, and some very ordinary performances to some lessor teams.
• The decision to trade Fev was huge, basically the club had to "find" another 80 - 90 goals from somewhere else. To Ratten's credit, he's rejigged the forward line and in the least we see a foundation of a multi-dimensional forward line for years to come.
• Ratt's has had the additions of maturing first round picks & Chris Judd to help him in his cause.

Perhaps Ratt's could show more as a match day strategist, perhaps a little more intensity, but given his overall record it's hardly the grounds to sack someone. What I like about Ratten is that he seeks advice and is willing to learn. He's contracted till the end of 2011, let's see how he's going then

We need to be in a position to challege for a premiership for us to be successful.
Just making the 8 doesnt cut it sorry
I say keep him till the end of 2011 and develop grigg/hendo/garlott etc
Play the kids see what they can do

 

[The Exorcist]

We need to be in a position to challege for a premiership for us to be successful.
Just making the 8 doesnt cut it sorry
I say keep him till the end of 2011 and develop grigg/hendo/garlott etc
Play the kids see what they can do

And if we finish top 4 next year you'd sack him?


Certainly you'd want more than making the top 8, the point I'm making is that we've enjoyed a natural progression under Ratten, if that keeps occurring then why disrupt it? If it doesn't then review the position


What i see on this board is posters looking at 2 or 3 poor games and it's "sack the coach," without much thought on where we've come from, our cattle, the down time of bringing in a new coach, and that new coach implementing their game plan and whether that game plan guarantees a premiership.


People rave about Malthouse, Craig (not so much lately), but neither of these coaches have taken their current clubs to premierships. In fact, Malthouse is the longest serving coach in one club not to win a premiership. And what about Eade? He's regarded as a good coach but it looks like the Bulldogs won't get that premiership.


If someone can find the "fool proof" coach then great, but the fact is they don't exist. Coaching a club is like everything else in life, be it a marriage, running a business, raising kids, there's ups and downs but what you're looking for is the overall picture and whether it's heading in a positive direction.

 

[GoBlues!]

Q-Simple question if Ratten was uncontracted would anyteam in the AFL other than us employ him?

A- ?

The same thing goes for about 12 other coaches in the afl - do you think great coaches grow on trees or something??

A harder question, if all the current coaches were uncontracted who would you want to coach Carlton?? Thompson, Malthouse, Lyon, Eade?? Thompson is probably the best of the lot and has the score on the board - but hang on Geelong wanted to give him the arse in 2006, good thing they didn't.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

The same thing goes for about 12 other coaches in the afl - do you think great coaches grow on trees or something??

A harder question, if all the current coaches were uncontracted who would you want to coach Carlton?? Thompson, Malthouse, Lyon, Eade?? Thompson is probably the best of the lot and has the score on the board - but hang on Geelong wanted to give him the arse in 2006, good thing they didn't.

Apart from Leigh Mathews no oecycled coach has won the flag recently.
Young coaches with a coaching schooling have been succesful.
Noone has won a flag as unqualified in coaching as Ratten... and it shows he has no clue...and hasnt the qualifications to coach.

What we need is a professional process ... or we would end up with another Pagan/Blight or Watson /Ratten coach without one.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

And if we finish top 4 next year you'd sack him?


Certainly you'd want more than making the top 8, the point I'm making is that we've enjoyed a natural progression under Ratten, if that keeps occurring then why disrupt it? If it doesn't then review the position


What i see on this board is posters looking at 2 or 3 poor games and it's "sack the coach," without much thought on where we've come from, our cattle, the down time of bringing in a new coach, and that new coach implementing their game plan and whether that game plan guarantees a premiership.


People rave about Malthouse, Craig (not so much lately), but neither of these coaches have taken their current clubs to premierships. In fact, Malthouse is the longest serving coach in one club not to win a premiership. And what about Eade? He's regarded as a good coach but it looks like the Bulldogs won't get that premiership.


If someone can find the "fool proof" coach then great, but the fact is they don't exist. Coaching a club is like everything else in life, be it a marriage, running a business, raising kids, there's ups and downs but what you're looking for is the overall picture and whether it's heading in a positive direction.

not going to finish top 4 with ratten,

the pattern of play we play has not improved over his 3 seasons.

and attitude is not right by the players.

just as u have to transfer the ball on the ground cleanly... so to does a coach have to transfer a non confusing message to the players.

he has not been capable of doing that.

 

[Sin City]

What we need is a professional process

You've posted this crap before. You have no idea what the interview process was at all.

We've improved every year under Ratten, that's what rebuilding and development is about.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

You've posted this crap before. You have no idea what the interview process was at all.

We've improved every year under Ratten, that's what rebuilding and development is about.

Oh you mean improved cos he inherited 3 number 1 picks and chris judd was headhunted for him??


our overall pattern of play has not improved.

youre going to improve is you have a swag of early picks who are no longer young but men.... but his part hasnt improved.

Tell me what % of footballers have improved under him this year as compared too gone backwards this year.

Wanna run through them for us?

And youre the one spinning diabetes coated dellusion.

We beat WC....!!!... check the ladder.. and their form!!

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

You've posted this crap before. You have no idea what the interview process was at all.

We've improved every year under Ratten, that's what rebuilding and development is about.

When Voss didnt get the job.... EVERYBODY knew who was getting it...

I do know how the process was...

the word SHAM comes to mind...

Now you tell me on what qualification basis Ratten won that job over all comers across the whole AFL and ill listen to your crap!!!

 

[Sin City]

When Voss didnt get the job.... EVERYBODY knew who was getting it...

I do know how the process was...

the word SHAM comes to mind...

Now you tell me on what qualification basis Ratten won that job over all comers across the whole AFL and ill listen to your crap!!!

When Voss didn't take it everyone knew who the favourite was, not who was getting it.

You have no more idea than anyone else what the interview process was. Ratten is honest and professional. He got the job because he was the best of the applicants.

 

[mediumsizered]

We need to be in a position to challege for a premiership for us to be successful.
Just making the 8 doesnt cut it sorry
I say keep him till the end of 2011 and develop grigg/hendo/garlott etc
Play the kids see what they can do

How soon did you expect us to be challenging for a premiership after the Lions smashed us at the Gabba in 2007 & Pagan got sacked? 2008? 2009? 2010?

Play the kids you say. Aren't the kids already a significant part of our best 22? Gibbs (21), Kreuzer (21), Bower (22), Yarran (19), Garlett (20), Hampson (22), Jacobs (22), Grigg (22), Joseph (21), Lucas (19), Henderson (20), Anderson (21), Browne (21), Ellard (21), Robinson (21), White (22).

All of the above have played seniors this season. That is 16 kids 22 or under & yet the opportunity to play finals for a second successive season is in our hands. How does this compare to some of the other teams who are "playing the kids" i.e. West Coast, Richmond, Melbourne, Essendon? How are they shaping up for finals this year (3 of them didn't play finals last year either)?

You just wonder how many times you have to point out that our playing list is not at the same stage of development as the Collingwood, Geelong, St Kilda, Bulldogs, Hawthorn, Sydney or Fremantle lists. Our rebuild is closer to the rebuilds taking place at Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond, West Coast (we are probably 1 or 2 years ahead of these teams) yet we are challenging for finals again.

Yes we won our first wooden spoon 8 years ago & were crap for 6 years, but we are not 8 years into a rebuild (thank you John Elliott & Wes Lofts) as we should be had we had draft picks & the funds to develop our list (so many forget we didn't have a development coach & staff until Dick Pratt came back on board).

Ratts took over a very ordinary list in late 2007 (lost his first 9 games as a coach, in a run of 13 losses in a row), yet we played finals barely 2 seasons later and are a huge chance to back it up again, despite having lost our leading goalkicker of the previous 7 seasons & our most experienced midfielder. How have Essendon gone since the loss of Lloyd & Lucas?

Do yourself a favour. Make a list of Carlton's 10 most talented players, remembering to note the age of these players & then make a list of the 10 most talented players at the clubs above us in the 8. This might give you a clue as to why we aren't challenging for a premiership yet & probably won't for another 2 years.

 

[Sin City]

Oh you mean improved cos he inherited 3 number 1 picks and chris judd was headhunted for him??


our overall pattern of play has not improved.

youre going to improve is you have a swag of early picks who are no longer young but men.... but his part hasnt improved.

Tell me what % of footballers have improved under him this year as compared too gone backwards this year.

Wanna run through them for us?

And youre the one spinning diabetes coated dellusion.

We beat WC....!!!... check the ladder.. and their form!!

Why does it have to be because we got three number 1 picks. One is in a form slump, one is out injured and the other one has had an injury interrupted year so surely the reason for improvement lays somewhere else.

Our overall pattern of play has improved this year, it's been poor recently but the season so far, particularly without Fevola, has seen a lot of improvement.

Players that have improved this year: Simpson, Scotland, Yarran, Garlett, Betts, Robinson, O'hAilpin, Henderson, Hampson, Jacobs, Warnock, Grigg, Walker, Russell, White, Armfield, Houlihan. You could add Fisher and Kreuzer to this list before injuries.

Murphy (injuries), McLean (injuries), Gibbs (poor/inconsistent form, disposal), Joseph, Browne may not be going as well as last year but I don't see how any of this is Ratten's fault. Once again you have no idea what you're on about.

I never said it was a great win, I don't think we played like a top 8 side. However we did show a lot of fight to come back and win while West Coast were confident, it is good to get a win and it will do their confidence a lot of good.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

When Voss didn't take it everyone knew who the favourite was, not who was getting it.

You have no more idea than anyone else what the interview process was. Ratten is honest and professional. He got the job because he was the best of the applicants.

yes he was a better applicant than Chris Bond on the surface....

Give me his coaching CV....

You should know it... if hes done his apprentiship in coaching .

Like easy to see Brad Scotts.... Damien Hardwicks.. etc..

Give me Rattens.
and the years he was there....

I think if you go back a year earlier at a failed Coup to rid Pagan .. youll find Fraser Brown said and i quote "Ratten can coach this side with his eyes closed"

Its the 1995 boys that run the club and appointed Ratten.

Everybody knew.!!!

EVERYONE!!!!!!

EVERYONNNNNE!!!

And Voss was not going through the process too.

Essendon buggered up cos they were doing the same thing.

The irony is Voss Knights and Ratten are all struggling now.. cos of the no proper process.... and hiw foot has moved on ..
There are so many well credentialled young assistants who have completed courses and married that with sitting in successful boxes learning from the best.

Ratts was coaching 2nd division Eastern suburban side Norwood while they were doing those hard yards.

and it shows!

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Why does it have to be because we got three number 1 picks. One is in a form slump, one is out injured and the other one has had an injury interrupted year so surely the reason for improvement lays somewhere else.

Our overall pattern of play has improved this year, it's been poor recently but the season so far, particularly without Fevola, has seen a lot of improvement.

Players that have improved this year: Simpson, Scotland, Yarran, Garlett, Betts, Robinson, O'hAilpin, Henderson, Hampson, Jacobs, Warnock, Grigg, Walker, Russell, White, Armfield, Houlihan. You could add Fisher and Kreuzer to this list before injuries.

Murphy (injuries), McLean (injuries), Gibbs (poor/inconsistent form, disposal), Joseph, Browne may not be going as well as last year but I don't see how any of this is Ratten's fault. Once again you have no idea what you're on about.

I never said it was a great win, I don't think we played like a top 8 side. However we did show a lot of fight to come back and win while West Coast were confident, it is good to get a win and it will do their confidence a lot of good.

Dreaming if youre adding most of those names in your list of improvers.

Beams at collingwood is playing better football than Murphy and Gibbs and hes younger.,, and taen with a much later pick.

Thats a guy mid range and younger outplaying 2 number 1 picks.

Thats called development and true improvement.!!!

Youre clutching at straws....

 

[BlueTongue]

Now that Carlton have Won.. Now is the time to unsack Ratten. Praise etc.. ****ing relax guys, stop calling for his head every time the team play badly. He can't control their sometimes lack of judgment on kicks, handballs etc. Discuss?

I'm not Pro-Sack Ratten (just yet) but I am somewhat skeptical of a lot of his decision making. I think you need to relax a bit because we have only just beaten the 16th placed team whom we have already had the wood over for some time. Hardly convincing. Tough 5 weeks coming up. Not a good time for the Bummers to find confidence either. You can bet if we lose to them AGAIN there will be a LOT more people calling for his head.

 

[mediumsizered]

Dreaming if youre adding most of those names in your list of improvers.

Beams at collingwood is playing better football than Murphy and Gibbs and hes younger.,, and taen with a much later pick.

Thats a guy mid range and younger outplaying 2 number 1 picks.

Thats called development and true improvement.!!!

Youre clutching at straws....

Would that have anything to do with the depth of talent around Beams? Do you believe teams actually put a lot of planning into Beams? I would suggest they would be looking at Swan, Pendlebury, Didak, Davis, Shaw, Ball, O'Brien before Beams. In contrast, Murphy cops a heavy tag most weeks & Gibbs has been given important roles on some of the opposition's best players.

You would seem to be the one clutching at straws, most likely because you have a vested interest in the failure of our team, as you have demonstrated for many years on BF & Talking Carlton.

 

[mediumsizered]

I'm not Pro-Sack Ratten (just yet) but I am somewhat skeptical of a lot of his decision making. I think you need to relax a bit because we have only just beaten the 16th placed team whom we have already had the wood over for some time. Hardly convincing. Tough 5 weeks coming up. Not a good time for the Bummers to find confidence either. You can bet if we lose to them AGAIN there will be a LOT more people calling for his head.

That is the Richmond mentality which has infiltrated some of the Carlton support base. Now there is a club which has demonstrated how sacking coaches can make such a huge difference to the club's overall performance (St Kilda demonstrated this during the '80s & '90s, particularly with the sacking of Alves so soon after getting the Saints to a GF).

I just wonder how many of those Carlton supporters who tipped us not to make the 8 this season, due to the loss of Fev, are the same ones calling for Ratts to be sacked.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Would that have anything to do with the depth of talent around Beams? Do you believe teams actually put a lot of planning into Beams? I would suggest they would be looking at Swan, Pendlebury, Didak, Davis, Shaw, Ball, O'Brien before Beams. In contrast, Murphy cops a heavy tag most weeks & Gibbs has been given important roles on some of the opposition's best players.

You would seem to be the one clutching at straws, most likely because you have a vested interest in the failure of our team, as you have demonstrated for many years on BF & Talking Carlton.

ahhhhh bad luck... or excuses... coisncidences.

How do i vest in failure when the club HAS BEEN A FAILURE over a LONG PERIOD OF TIME!


There are reasons for that... and it startes with living in the past.. and having a "HUNKY DORY" approach.

Embrace mediocrity and it embraces you right back.

Its one of the laws of the universe.

So you mean to say .. Collingwoods players are better cos theyre getting better????

So why arent our players getting better... cos were getting better???

Handing our sugar lollies to anyone that will stop and take them .. hardly makes you a better supporter than me!!!

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Oh and by the way... i love your comment.

So sweeping...

so general...

"Some of the posters that thought we wouldnt make the eight cos we traded Fev dont want Ratts"

laughable..

Ratts cant coach...

he used Fev and Judd to death.

Then he lost Fev and Eddie became our CHF... "kick it to Eddie"

and he flogged Kreuzer to death in the ruck..

Good to see he started using Warnock and Hampson over Jacobs btw...

He has relied on too few and not challenged the many.

How many starkly different gameplans has he used this year?
No wonder the players are CONFUSED...

actually our most important player when asked by the board expressed the players are confused...

Ratts was put on notice 2 weeks ago.. and again was grilled at a board meeting last week.

He just isnt travelling too well atm..

his allies can see it and are feeling the heat.

A win against the bottom side doesnt do that much really.

He is tested again next week!!!

hopefully he comes up with something that isnt just about damage control

 

[chaser1]

Good win by the boys,but a lot of mistakes in the first half. A lot of improvement needed if we are to make the eight especially with draw we have. It doesn't matter were we end up, we need an independent review at the end of the year, from top to bottom!!

 

[bigblue23]

How soon did you expect us to be challenging for a premiership after the Lions smashed us at the Gabba in 2007 & Pagan got sacked? 2008? 2009? 2010?

Play the kids you say. Aren't the kids already a significant part of our best 22? Gibbs (21), Kreuzer (21), Bower (22), Yarran (19), Garlett (20), Hampson (22), Jacobs (22), Grigg (22), Joseph (21), Lucas (19), Henderson (20), Anderson (21), Browne (21), Ellard (21), Robinson (21), White (22).

All of the above have played seniors this season. That is 16 kids 22 or under & yet the opportunity to play finals for a second successive season is in our hands. How does this compare to some of the other teams who are "playing the kids" i.e. West Coast, Richmond, Melbourne, Essendon? How are they shaping up for finals this year (3 of them didn't play finals last year either)?

You just wonder how many times you have to point out that our playing list is not at the same stage of development as the Collingwood, Geelong, St Kilda, Bulldogs, Hawthorn, Sydney or Fremantle lists. Our rebuild is closer to the rebuilds taking place at Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond, West Coast (we are probably 1 or 2 years ahead of these teams) yet we are challenging for finals again.

Yes we won our first wooden spoon 8 years ago & were crap for 6 years, but we are not 8 years into a rebuild (thank you John Elliott & Wes Lofts) as we should be had we had draft picks & the funds to develop our list (so many forget we didn't have a development coach & staff until Dick Pratt came back on board).

Ratts took over a very ordinary list in late 2007 (lost his first 9 games as a coach, in a run of 13 losses in a row), yet we played finals barely 2 seasons later and are a huge chance to back it up again, despite having lost our leading goalkicker of the previous 7 seasons & our most experienced midfielder. How have Essendon gone since the loss of Lloyd & Lucas?

Do yourself a favour. Make a list of Carlton's 10 most talented players, remembering to note the age of these players & then make a list of the 10 most talented players at the clubs above us in the 8. This might give you a clue as to why we aren't challenging for a premiership yet & probably won't for another 2 years.

I have better things to do...

 

[Big Red is back]

Why are people who think Rats is struggling trolls?

I judge a coach simply by asking myself would any other club hire Rats as senior coach if he left Carlton?

A- Most likely no

Q- Would another club hire Malhouse, Roos, Bomber, Clarko, Rodney E

A- Yes

As Richard Pratt once said ' don't get the best person available, get the best person'.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

According to some posters we are the worst team in the competition. At least we were when there was mass hysteria on this board during the first half of the game.

Don't get too carried away by that second half. A crap team makes you look good. We weren't having to play in congested space which we find impossible to battle at the moment. A good effort from the boys, but we have not regained the form yet.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Why are people who think Rats is struggling trolls?

I judge a coach simply by asking myself would any other club hire Rats as senior coach if he left Carlton?

A- Most likely no

Q- Would another club hire Malhouse, Roos, Bomber, Clarko, Rodney E

A- Yes

As Richard Pratt once said ' don't get the best person available, get the best person'.

There were people who were arrested in Nazi Germany for disagreeing with the govt.
People were sent to Gulags inSoviet Union.. for the same .
We see G W Bush using "Youre either with us or against us" to hush people from criticising his war of terror on Iraq...

People are meant to not question anything.

Theyre meant to be sheep and shut up....

Youre a Richmond supporter if youre disatisfied... youre meant to sit there and take THIRTY Richmond of years of abyss.

There are people around who wish to hush free speech.... and silence any thought inside your head.

You are supposed to think everything is going great.. even if your eyes tell you something different.

You must tow the party line... do not think.. do not have an opinion.

 

[blue_chick]

We beat West Coast (16th) and now everythings great again......not Yes its great to win again but lets get some perspective !

You underestimate the Eagle's, they gave the Saint's a run for their money about a month ago, think it was less than 2 goal win for em at the same ground.

So they done well to come out of that game with a win after us giving them such a big start.

Hopefully this help's them to believe in themselves and get back to what we all know they can do. Just believe in your talent's Blue boy's and the rest will come.

 

[blue_chick]

When Voss didnt get the job.... EVERYBODY knew who was getting it...

I do know how the process was...

the word SHAM comes to mind...

Now you tell me on what qualification basis Ratten won that job over all comers across the whole AFL and ill listen to your crap!!!

He got the job because of Fraser Brown
He paid out Pagan's contract if they put Rat's in the number 1 job, and that is a fact